That REALLY escalated fast. (Hoosjim's 14th)

[hoosjim]

My new thread. Filled that old one in two days. My head's spinning (and I haven't even started in on the gin yet.) Y'all need to slow down.

My previous thread (you'll need to look here and prior ones for my story, im just tired of retyping it and updating it at this point):

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2782787&page=1

My last message (which kinda sorta tells you what's going on, at least in my head-- but y'all just need to go back and read the last couple threads because S**t got real FAST):

Ginger:

If she fights for you even though she truly thinks you moved on and lost you and you were gone (much like artistas H was) then you know it is genuine. Not just guilt or losing her cushy life. If she still wants this marriage to work even though you are DONE, then it might just be genuine.

And this is really the crux of it. And this is what we don't yet know. She has said some things to others that give me reason for hope. She has backed off hounding me the past two days. She is, by all accounts, a despairing, emotional wreck. She truly thinks I am gone. The question, now, is how hard she will work to get me back, and that remains to be seen. She has asked some of the right questions, said some of the right things (Asked MC if she thought she should quit her job since I was clearly uncomfortable with some of the dynamic there-- and she LOVES, absolutely loves her job.)

Look y'all... I am not head over heels here. I am not bought in. I'm not sure if, even if EVERYTHING I have relayed above turns out to be true... AND MORE... that I could still do this. She has been fickle in the past. Unfaithful in the past. There are still a lot of questions. I don't know what reconciliation with her would look like right now. Im not even sure I know what talking with her would look like right now... But MC has asked me to think about it, and I am. Not as a precursor to MC right now... we are in IC for a while, yet, she says. But she thinks all hope is not lost... and I don't see any harm in acknowledging that.

The above, and my previous, is my "litigative stance", my "procedural posture" as we lawyers like to say. My mind is made up, and I am resolute, at least on that general framework, though not on specifics or indeed, at this point, even on direction

And to not get me wrong... I love you all, I appreciate all your contributions. The "hardliners" are not too "hard"... they are where they need to be for who they are, and the "softliners" (is that even a word?) are not too soft (and im looking at you, too, here, Sandi-- you have done great for me and been invaluable straight along, and I will continue to say that even if my wife breaks into my hotel tonight and fills me full of shotgun holes. Okay, maybe I wont say it, but i'll think it from the great beyond...) The wealth and variance of opinions and views on here has helped me more than I can described, and I have been blessed to learn so many good lessons and from so many different quarters. This balance, this... flexibility... and my faith, are what's going to get me "There". Wherever "there" ends up being.

Thanks again y'all.

[DonH]

I will again say I think you are very much on target here Jim. I was the odd man out a month or two ago and may be again. I just have such a strong feeling about your sitch. I have no doubt that at this point W would do just about anything to get you back. I think that is what you are seeing. What I don't know is, will it last? If you went back now I bet it would not. However if done correctly you may end up with a better M than you ever imagined.

I again compare it to my opioid addiction expietence. I've seen people come to the point I think your W has been brought to. Problem is sometimes it does not stick.

It's for this that you have to play things farther but I really think she is there! Now did she go there willingly? No. Would she be here had she not been caught? No. But let's be honest, how many have we seen caught who are glad it's in the open. We hear of those who want to get caught. They sometimes will say, I'm not giving up the OM or OW. We are not seeing any of that. Problem is we are not seeing what you are.

You keep talking about this new Intel. Are you planning on sharing what that is? I think it would help us to understand and help us to help you. What did you learn that has you this sure? Or at least has you more hopeful?

I really do think she got her wake up call. I think she would ML to you tonight if she could. This is not being faked. I truly believe she feels it all. Again what I don't know is will it last?

Until,I see otherwise I think this is going as best as you could hope. It's still very early and going all in now would be the worst thing you could do. But you know that. I continue to think your IC has a solid handle on it all. Follow what she tells you. I don't think you will go wrong.

[hoosjim]

You keep talking about this new Intel. Are you planning on sharing what that is? I think it would help us to understand and help us to help you. What did you learn that has you this sure? Or at least has you more hopeful?

Okay, since you asked so nice, it's just I've had a couple of gins, and since the music is good, it's just my favorite cute 20-something bartender is not here tonight, I'll invest a couple minutes and tell you. I was going to put it in the subsequent post anyway, it's just that my previous two were super duper long and I wanted to put them to bed.

In a nutshell, I bugged her bedroom. Well, our bedroom, but I'm not currently sleeping there. Obviously. It's spring break, and the boy was out of the house spending the night at friends, so I put it in there when I was home for lunch thinking I might find out something that would shed some light on all of this. She cried. For 4 hours straight. Punctuated by many wailings of"I am so, so stupid...." "what the hell was I thinking?" "One minute, one stupid minute and I ruined everything" (apparently her actual encounter with OM was a one-minute deal, a pass by, a brief hug which she resisted, a hello and goodbye, and a "will I see you here again" answered by her: "no"-- most of this I am pretty convinced is accurate because she thought I actually saw them together at gym -- I didnt-- aND she referred to it in those terms when she was chasing after me on Saturday, and her nice, Christian friend, who called me today, told me something similar. Note that I did not then, nor do I evendors now, excuse this, nor the calls entertained at work, however uncomfortable she found them. No contact means no contact). ALSO HEARD( over and over): "he's gone, he's really gone and he's not coming back. You really did it this time girl." and "I can't take this" and "I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry oh my G**, oh my G**" why why why why" etc. For four hours. (I skipped around but it was nonstop. And keep in mind this is all four days after the fact. I'd have hated to have heard her on night one. It was gut-wrenching. And, I feel pretty safe and saying, that she was not no way in heck faking 4 straight hours of crying. I don't know how she did four straight hours of real crying. That has got to take it out of you.

Later, she got a call from her friend, the nicer, Christian one. The one who had been in the troubled marriage previously but pulled out of it. In a nutshell, that conversation confirmed a lot of what I had heard or been told earlier. And to me it sounded genuine, IDK. All I know is that I trust this other girl. As far as I know there is not a duplicitous bone in her body.

Finally, she got a call from our beloved BFF. Not nearly the Treasure Trove you might think it might have been. This is primarily because BFF is most often about BFF so it was a lot of "me me me me me me, my problems, me me me". However, there were nuggets. BFF did not trash me, not once. Further, BFF is no longer pedaling the " infidelity and divorce and getting together with your Affair partner is all sunshine and roses" narrative. Now that her divorce is final( both she and my friend got their notices in the mail yesterday) she is finding out that it is not always so nice, and in fact had already been finding out that the pain, and family turmoil, particularly with regard to the kids, is not necessarily outweighed by being with your "one true sleazy Affair partner love", especially when you start spending absolutely all of your time with that person and you start realizing what a scumbag they actually are. Finally, while she was not really providing any useful accountability advice, she was receptive to my wife's please that she really wanted to be with me, and advise her that she would need to give me some time, that the wound was still too fresh. Finally, some Intel on the OM. Apparently he is very persistent. In fact a wee bit or even more than a wee bit TOO persistent. He has called Wife's work several times the last two days she has been there and she has not picked up. For what it's worth she also told this to her other friend, the one who works there. Finally, BFF said that the jerk face has called her, BFF, numerous times as well, and that she has stopped answering and is going to put a block on the phone for his number.( recall that at one time they were friends, and hung out together from time to time, but perhaps the bloom is off that Rose now. I do note that OMS circle of friends are no longer included on BFFs Facebook page, which they were for a long time). Wife also noted that she had been worried that om was going to come to confront me, that he has a hot head, and also a concealed carry permit ( which in retrospect, I think I might have known already from our prior Association but had forgotten) and that she was a little worried about what he might do. She was also worried that he was going to come by her office and make trouble, or approach my younger son, which he actually had already done I know because my son told me, and Spill the Beans about their earlier relationship.

So that's it. There's almost no way she would know we're even suspect that I was bugging the bedroom. She doesn't even know that I was by the house. And I believe the conversations I overheard as well as her wailing and gnashing of teeth we're absolutely genuine.

Now, does any of that change the fact that she entertained phone calls from the OM for a still undetermined period Of time, and that she either consented to or arranged, or put herself in a position for that brief meet up at the gym? And that she had previously promised never to do such a thing, and that doing so was both disrespectful, unwise, Unfaithful, and insert just about any number of other unflattering descriptions here that you can think of. And the answer, of course, is that no, it does not. Nor doesn't answer why she would do such a thing. Or whether or not she might do such a thing again. And a host of other related questions. All those are questions that are going to have to be addressed and worked out and overcome in my mind to my satisfaction.

Like I said, I think the marriage counselor has a real real real good handle on this, and is guiding Us in pretty much the exact way we need to be guided. Individual counseling for now. We both, especially my wife, have work to do before we even think about a relationship with each other.

[hoosjim]

Oh, and the bit with my shirt (where i walked in Sunday night to get a suit for the next day and found her sobbing in bed wearing her favorite shirt of mine) was, apparently, genuine, if also a little weird. When she was relating the whole ordeal to good-girl gf, she said "and then i went to the closet and got one of his shirts and put it on because i just wanted something that smelled like him and reminded me of him... how pathetic is that?" (and started sobbing again. Like i said-- gut wrenching.)

Also, I am henceforth going to stop referring to OM as "OM", but, rather, the "Rodney Dangerfield with a Tow Truck and a Gun" or the RDWATTAAG. Thank you for your understanding.

[DonH]

When she was relating the whole ordeal to good-girl gf, she said "and then i went to the closet and got one of his shirts and put it on because i just wanted something that smelled like him and reminded me of him... how pathetic is that?".

In my prior comments I was going to say how some of this almost reminds me of a death - it's in some ways as if you suddenly died. Even if the H and W had been not getting along the best, if one suddenly dies the other is still devistated. I wish I'd said this.

The thing is, what your W did with your shirt is EXACTLY what a good friend of mine did when her H and one of my best friends at one point died suddenly. She had his shirts and at one point laid out his cloths and slept with his cloths laid out next to her. She too could also smell him and this is what she did for a few weeks to get her through the devastation. She too later sort of laughed when telling this story to us, somewhat feeling a little nutty doing it.

I honestly see these as the same. I really do. It also reaffirms my thinking about how broken she is - not because she would put on your shirt but I really do think she wants to feel in love and attraction for you, yet it was not coming to her and she did not know why and was grasping for things to fix it. This bomb brought all of those natural feelings flooding back. I think she is even relieved and happy they came back. She's happy she loves and is attracted to you again.

I believe all of that but just as strongly fear it could all switch off again down the road unless she fixes what is broken. Does that make sense? I really fear it could. I don't think she at all wants it too but whatever is wrong inside of her has not been fixed. The feelings and desire are all back but only because of what happened. If she could chose she'd want them to stay that way but they may again go away, and she won't even know why nor how to get them back again. I think she's been battling this for awhile. She even said as much - that she wanted to be with you but was not feeling that attraction. I think she wished she did, but it was not there so she started self medicating with OM with BFF, with some GGW behavior,math wine downs. Etc. it's once again the same with many drug addicts - they are self medicating for depression or trauma or other issues.

This new Intel just totally reaffirms my earlier thoughts. She 100% wants you back, she just doesn't know how to keep that going and not let this other behavior return. Hopefully IC can help coupled with you keeping the pressure on.

[hoosjim]

Don my friend, this is pretty much where i am... And do i want to take that chance? PErhaps not without knowing she is putting in the work she needs to put in on her.

[mtb1981]

Man.... OM gets no respect.... (Rodney Dangerfid joke)....

Just be careful Jim. You’re getting a taste of what needs to happen to make things right, just keep a straight head and be cautious. These WW’s are crazy creatures...

[hoosjim]

She had even gone as far as saying to her one gf that after she had seen RDWATTAAG and felt nothing that it was like a "switch flipped" for her that pushed her over that last hurdle she had been having with me and that she was all worked up to come jump on me in the shower (if that's where i was after my work out.) That obviously didn't end up going quite as she planned. :-/

Now according to her this was BEFORE she knew she was busted. IDK. I relate this merely because it kind of flows from what you were hypothesizing, not because i think it is particularly pertinent data. She still voluntarily went over there to see OM, apparently just to assure herself that there was nothing still there. Of course i find that to be a pretty crappy and, in fact, pretty discomforting explanation

[Coconut]

I think that the comparison of these being a reverse BD is genius,and reading her reactions, thoughts, etc. really resonate with my reactions after BD. I really hope you are really listening to DonH, because I think he's spot on. Being in the LBS fog is not a place where you can really figure out how you feel, she's in survival mode and reuniting would bring her back to "normal" without having to work on her issues.

I haven't heard anything about your request that she move out, has anything been said about that?

[KitCat]

Maybe others will weigh in but I have read parts of your thread and I see someone who is really, truly spinning out of control at the moment.

You really need to remove the "bug" from the bedroom ASAP. That is snooping in its highest form and if it ever gets back to your spouse could backfire in ways that she just might marry Rodney Dangerfield in retaliation.

I think you need to give yourself a time out.

You are acting as if your W has all this work to do in the marriage because of the A but you need to have a long talk with yourself about how you are going to earn your W's trust back after placing a bug in her personal space.

Please, please, please you have to realize this snooping to this degree must immediately stop.