Here again part 10

[Maybell]

I snooped like mad. I still occasionally get a bit twisted up about Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend. I DEFINITELY screamed at the top of my lungs. I did all the things you are doing. I just felt like I didn't have very many people around me reminding me that I didn't have to take all that. A few people told me I was letting him have his way without really any consequences and how much I rolled over and pined for a guy with no character has had repercussions in my career and my relationships with my children that I've had to grow out of. Maybe I'm being too pushy with you because of how I felt when I was going through this, and if I am, I'm sorry.

Here's what I'd say. Certainly it matters THAT he's cheating. It's not unimportant. The thing is, when you go down that road, you get yourself all twisted up in your place in his cheating, and the truth is, it's nothing to do with you. He does what he wants to do because he wants to. (When my ex was explaining his cheating in MC, I asked him how he could do such a thing and his answer was "I thought I'd do something for myself for once." As though OUR WHOLE LIFE wasn't about what he wanted to do... but I digress) So when you start worrying about what about you drove him to it, or whether you can ever get him back, and all those windy endless roads that line of thinking will take you down, you've missed the point. It's not to do with you.

I personally would love to see you file. Not because you've been replaced. But because of the peace that comes from cutting the cord and saying, "I'm done." It's not painless peace, but it's a space where you can think of the things you care about and what you want your life to look like. That's what dropping the rope feels like. Just a nice calm space where all that panic was. It's an incremental thing. You have to decide, in a moment where you're starting to get hung up on who he's talking to or why, to just... not. And redirect your thoughts to something more constructive. And then do it over and over again until one day you realize, you haven't cried or you haven't panicked, and you haven't checked your phone for the texts he didn't send. It's a place where you can observe him doing manipulative things like talking through your dad and just say, "Huh, the guy I thought I married wouldn't behave like that," rather than getting all hung up on why he's doing it and what it means and if there's any hope for the marriage.

You're NOT weak. You're amazing! This is some tough sh!t you're going through! So... get THROUGH it. Don't hang out here admiring the view. Rather than giving effort to why HE's doing what he's doing, observe how you're reacting and try to understand that. Your heart will have an easier time following your head once your focus is someplace constructive.

I'm so proud of you, T! (((((T384)))))

[Train]

T,

You ARE one of us. You just don't remember it yet.

But the good news is: you're on your way. Without even realizing it. You're exactly where you need to be, girlfrannnn.

ALWAYS in your corner .....

[25yearsmlc]

what she said^^^.

Your h feels entitled to his choices and that is why he makes them. He felt regret during or after the first time, when he seemed to have gambled too much.

Time passed and life presented the joy (& responsibility of another child/ new home -so

he felt entitled to Gambling with his marriage and his enlarged family again.
If this were any other time in your life, I suspect you'd say you know enough to know if there is an affair.

I'm not sure about the details you seek. Is it proof OF AN A, or all the details? Because other than an actual video of the penetration act ( gross), why bother?

(I'm asking, not belaboring the point that I would not).

Anyway, I send you strength and peace and comfort T3...

Somehow I just know that you will be alright, and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Can't explain how I know, but I swear I do. We are all supporting you in getting there.

I'm acutely aware of how you feel in terms of being replaced, let alone so fast. It wounds deeply and draws blood.

I also understand the ceaseless internal questions of HOW and WHY we were so hurt, how and why someone can seem to change overnight, or maybe reveal their true selves or whatever...

I know the recriminations we have of ourselves - first for somehow causing this rejection, bringing it about ourselves, and then later, the regrets for not seeing our h's true selves earlier...

be gentle with yourself. We cannot know all the answers and we will not.
Reading about people who "just want to understand why" - now it just makes me sad.

My own son31 says "Mom, the reason 'why' is that dad is a selfish fraud. Stop wasting your life wondering why, mom. Dad is GONE!"

Hearing my own son^^say this so firmly^^^reminded me of

the Caroline Myss' quote,

endless wondering is endless suffering.

And it's self inflicted. You do not deserve endless suffering.

You deserve romantic love, deep loyalty, & easy laughter & abiding respect. You will create this in your new life, as will I.

Please know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, because there is. And we are all supporting you in making it there.

[mm2bs]

I wanted to chime in to say that I completely understand your statement "I know the snooping is bad but it's almost like it hurts me more to not know. I have to know to remind myself of where he is at mentally emotionally etc." I feel the exact same way. I snooped horribly when my H first left and unfortunately read some things I now wish I had never read. I can't un-see or un-know them and sometimes I think that holds me back.

Just based on the actions you take and the things you describe doing on a daily basis I would never say that you are not as strong as others. Just making it through the day with 3 young boys is a feat and you actually make it fun for them.

The advice you are getting here is so great. I am reading and taking everything in for myself as well. I hope you will continue to read and take things in as you can. Its such a long process.

I can completely empathize with how you feel and have definitely been there and had many of the exact thoughts. One thing my IC suggested to me was a "God" or "Universe" box. She knows how much I like to fix things, so she suggested this. I really have found it helpful since I am the kind of person who needs to physically do things. She suggested that when I have an issue/problem that I cannot fix (mostly in regards to H...) I write it down on a piece of paper and put it in my God box. This reminds me that I cannot control what others are doing, but it lets me do something by putting it in this box and giving control over to a higher power to deal with.

[T384]

On my phone so bear with me

25 - your posts are so thoughtful and insightful. You really push me to dig deep and I can feel the pain you have worked through.

I don't know that he has high expectations of me he just wants to be done because he views me as the problem and source of his unhappiness. That if he eliminates me from his life he will be happy again.

Yes I have to remind myself there's no excuse to leave. My grandma said we all have our faults but it doesn't mean you just walk out. He said he is self absorbed and only worried about himself and his happiness.

I don't know why I struggle so much with him talking to these other women. ESPECIALLY the one from up north his mom got involved. They text constantly and she 100% supports his decision to leave. H is very easily influenced and I can't help but think she's helped him feel like leaving is ok and feeling justified in his decision.

But yes I have my faults but I'm still standing here in our home with our boys willing to look st myself and my contributions to become a better person.

I do hope karma comes around. My whole family tells me it' will but it's hard to see this coming full circle with where I am right now.

Maybell - thank you for your continued support and time to rewatch out to me. I do need to stop snooping.

H told his mom last night he was getting his own place. She said she didn't say anything. I said are you kidding?

This is why he's like this. He's her son and she's so afraid to upset him like last BD that she doesn't want to say anything. So me snooping is a way of preparing for what he's doing because I'm not ready to be the one to act. I'm going to see another L next week but I really don't think I'm THERE yet to file.


Train - thank you. I always always appreciate your support and advice.

I feel like you all are so strong and that I'm just not there yet to let go. Trust me I want to. I really really do. But hearing that he's actually getting his own place And telling his mom about it really put me back.

25 (again) haha - yes he feels entitled and justified. Like my C said he's built up this army of people who support him and tell him he's making the right decision which gets his head bigger and bigger. But my dad said he has no idea what reality is right now. I don't need details of the A. I just need to know for certain there is one. There are too many women he's talking to so
At this time I can say he's definitely at least taking inappropriately to women.

I know I want to know why and my dad said he probably doesn't know why. That I just have to know he's a weak man that gives up when there's adversity. That he walks out when things get tough.

MM- thank you for stopping by. We sound pretty similar in our actions/way we see things. Snooping is hard. I want to know and fix everything. I guess I will have to try this box idea. I have found myself talking to myself at times so that I don't explode or send a text I will regret. I'm really losing my mind talking to myself in the car on my long commute lol.

Our AC was on the fritz so H worked on it all night. We didn't exchange 2 words beyond me going out there asking if I needed to call the AC company.

Anyway he woke me up at 2am saying his eyes were blurry and thought he needed to go to the hospital. So I went out to the living room. I had some stuff in the house and flushed his eyes out, he was shaking and in a lot of pain and was throwing up. I stayed out there with him for at least an hour until his vision was back to normal and he wasn't sick... I gave him medicine put wash clothes on his back and told him everything would be okay. It made me sad for him. Sad that this is his life that he can't see that my care for him is unconditional. That he can drag me through the mud and at the end of the day if you need help I would still do that for you ... I was half tempted to tell him to call one of the you know what's he talks to. But anyway I asked him if he needed anything else and went back t my room and haven't talked since. I didn't cling on to anything I was just simply there to help him because I'm sure he got something in his eyes from fixing the AC.

Anyway that's where I'm at... I don't even know. In denial? Sad? Angry? Frustrated? Big time denial is for sure where I'm at.

[Thornton]

Hey T3,

I always felt that you and I were similiar in that we both obsess about our sitches.

It's over a month now since W moved away and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger. Yes, it still hurts but I catch myself singing in the car now. Or I catch myself smiling at other people and they ask me why I seem so chipper. HUGE changes for me.

You are at the worst part of the journey right now. I was actually a little surprised I didn't completely fall apart when W left.

Sometimes you just have to say screw it and surrender to what is your reality. Once I did that, I felt such relief. Yes, I still get down and I miss W and D like crazy. But I dont have any control over that so I let it wash over me and then move on with my day.

T3, it gets better. If it has gotten better for me, it will get better for you.

Also, I used to snoop back in the day and started to become an obsession. Once I stopped, my anxiety/depression got so much better.

Look, your H is an ass. He's done this before and he's done it again right as we were ready to give birth. What that tells me is that this really doesn't have much to do with you. It's him. He has issues and I feel confident he would have done this to any woman he was married to.

You can't fix him. You have to surrender that he is broken and unless he realizes this, nothing is going to change. That only way to allow him the opportunity to realize he's broken is to completely and totally leave him alone (aside from parenting discussions). That's exactly what I did and now W is miserable and texting me wanting to fix things.

Stop snooping. Accept that the H you once knew is gone and will not be back for a long time. Surrender to the fact your kids might not grow up with both their parents together. I know you dont want that but it is your reality, accept it. This is currently your life, T3. The good news is that it won't be your life forever. Open your palm and let him go.

As soon as you can do these things ^^^, you will start to feel relief.

Hang in there.

[sandi2]

endless wondering is endless suffering.

And it's self inflicted. You do not deserve endless suffering.

Very wise words! Not to lessen what your H has done, but from where I can see.....you are currently your own worst enemy. Seriously, T! A lot of your suffering seems to be self inflicted. You wrestle with your feelings. (I know you are venting, btw, and this is just me responding to your venting thoughts). May I ask what better alternative you think would be successful? I mean, when you start saying you are concerned you are pushing him further away...........what does your mind tell you to do? Something similar to what you were doing before the baby was born.....and even later? You pursued, was his friend, gave him sex, played house, went on family outings.......and it did not stop him from this quest he has undertaken.

You are trying to sort through the sh't mind of a wayward, and even worse........you take the fall for him. You ask why you are always his scape goat. Maybe b/c you are willing to bear his sins for him? If I remember correctly, that was the symbolic purpose for scape goats. Maybe I just want to make you a little angry, b/c I had rather see you mad than watch you act like a goat. .

Sweetheart, you will never be able to figure out his mindset. Heck, he can't even figure it out........so what makes you think you can? The difference here is that he repeats the same action, as previously, which is to make everything that's wrong about him.....your fault. It's your fault he is cruel to you. It is your fault that he's not being a better father, and that he doesn't behave like a M man. It's all your fault, T. You ran him off.

Now, is that what you really believe? I don't buy it for a second. You are smarter than to believe all that b.s. Every wayward I have known IRL, and read about, blame their spouse! I think it must be in the wayward DNA.....or something, but it is definitely a pattern waywards follow. Do you know why they blame everything on their LBS? B/c in their minds, it justifies their actions. It's part of their demonizing and demoralizing work they do, hoping people can't smell their sh't as badly. If he can make you (of all people) believe his b.s., then that's a gold star for him. Every time you go into trying to rationalize what made a good man go bad, you end up in the same place.........which is, it must be your fault, b/c that's the only thing that makes sense to you. Listen T, sometimes people lose their moral compass. It may go deeper for some......and their actions/behavior may be worse than others. It is still wayward behavior. He chose to be a dishonorable man.

There are several things that waywards all have in common. Just to name a few: It is usually a surprise to the LBS that things were that bad in the R; waywards have a hidden agenda before they leave the MR (which means they have engaged in an A, or they have their eyes on someone, or they just want to sleep around); they exit the MR in a dishonorable fashion; they blame the LBS for their problems; they try to hide their "other" life until an acceptable time......so that people don't see them for the scum they really are; they pay for their selfish happiness at the expense of their family; they don't want to save their M; and they live in a fantasy world; and they love, love, love....cake. There are other things, too, but I think your H fits the bill.

Unfortunately, this is not an exceptional stitch, other than it being your stitch. What I mean to say is that your WH is not different than any other ordinary WS. I really wanted him to be an exception, he is like every other wayward I have ever known and read about on this board. No matter how many times you compare this last betrayal to the previous betrayal, it still equals the same answer........wayward husband.

Stop blaming yourself. Stop trying to prove he is in an A. Stop holding your breath to see of he comes back. Drop the rope and stop making his behavior the center of your thoughts.

((T))

[25yearsmlc]

T3...

((( )))

my dear young mama friend,

Re OW...the sad truth is, you know the sad truth. Enough of it anyhow.


as for the rest, I believe some of a previous post bears repeating...


I'm acutely aware of how you feel in terms of being replaced, let alone so fast. It wounds deeply and it draws blood.

It's not real on his end, but it hurts a LOT now. You believe You are the obstacle to HIS happiness? You believe you must be removed so HE can be happy NOW??

If you believe that ^^, if you believe that you "made" him miserable enough for long enough so he HAD to lie and be with other women (inappropriately at best)

and he HAD to buy shiny new pricey objects, and lie about them, and collude with others about how miserable he is, so he can get their "buy in" to leave and still feel like a good guy,

when the truth is that he's become a selfish fraud,

then slap yourself in the face and say "That's not the truth!" Because it ain't.

You are gas lighting yourself.

[cadence]

(((T3)))

Just here for support, but I had to comment on this

Like my C said he's built up this army of people who support him and tell him he's making the right decision which gets his head bigger and bigger.

I identify with this so much. H did this, too, but with a male friend he made the first time he left me. He's a nice guy, but can't manage a healthy relationship of his own and likes to go out on the town and chat up women. When we reconciled, this friend would pout if I was with them. He wanted H single again, and H saw it and it became an inside joke between us.

This friend would barely say two words to me. I'd try to talk to him, but he had no interest in getting to know me. H joked "Well, you're with me so he's got no use for you!" Yeah, great.

Late last year, I'd see some texts H sent to him after we had an argument. "Oh, Cadence and I had another argument. It's resolved but it's just a matter of time until the next one!"

I asked him about that; if it was wise to be confiding about our struggles with the friend who wants him single. He'd insist it was fine, and I'd be surprised how supportive this guy was and that he knew we had something special.

And guess who is probably thrilled he has H back? This friend treated me as if I were temporary, and H made that come true.

I saw it happening, but I couldn't stop it. H thought I was jealous or wanted him not to have friends, but it wasn't that. This guy was clearly not a friend of OURS.

I had to accept that H knew what he was doing. And it's a matter of the chicken or the egg. I can't say this guy influenced him to leave as much as H set it up to have support to make the decision to leave. I feel like it's a bit of both.

But, like some posters have said, it goes in the God box. The same with you. You don't know if your H was innocent, and these people are influencing him and he can't see it, or if he actively wanted to build a support system of people who would influence him away from your M.

Sorry for the derail, but I thought it might help you put that in context. I know you're aggravated about these people he talks to.

[25yearsmlc]

T3- you are effectively a single parent without a partner.

Your h wants to be a part time dad and a single man.

^^^That is what the evidence says. That is what HE says he wants, (no feelings for you, nice). And that is how he behaves.

We will not ever understand their reasons. Ever...

Your H does not know the real answers. What answers could he possibly have that are "good"??


Who could admit that maybe they are fundamentally flawed? Maybe their inner struggle to change & act selflessly in a consistent manner needed of all parents, has failed?

Who could admit that in fact, THEY are more important than their families are?

Who could admit that justifying lies comes easily b/c hey, it's not really a lie if you deserve the thing about which you are "lying"? OR "just don't look at it that way.."

AND OR lying is okay b/c their spouse will "overreact" to the truth, or worse, b/c they don't want you to be hurt.

(See? Lying is noble!)

Reading about people who "just want to understand why" - OMG now it just makes me sad. That was me...Big time!
Now I feel like I spent 2 years in mental prison asking unanswerable questions, giving my h far more space in my heart/head than he gave to our entire family.

His painful tears at Retrovaille bought him a DECADE of marriage and family life and that was me clinging to the day long remorse he felt. Thinking it meant so much more...

and I was not fully being around for my kids (or myself) b/c I was so preoccupied not believing what was in front of me - OMG the regrets!!

That is why I keep harping on the issue.

Please let go of the need to know why, and deal with what is in front of you.

You are not the villain or the loser.

I'm not saying you must file for D this month.

I'm saying you must protect yourself legally/financially, (get a strategy)

and you must DROP THE ROPE and start not giving a $hit about your h. He's gone.

Your h is not a special unicorn. I wanted him to be...but he's not. Read Sandi's post...


If your h ever really deeply "Gets it" regarding the pain he has inflicted on the 4 people who loved him the most, AND IF he decides he wants to change, AND if he seems able to do that work to re-establish trust, YOU WILL KNOW

There won't be guess work b/c that would mean, by definition, it's not happening.

In this regard, your situation is simple. Gross, fetal position painful, appalling and horrific, but not complex.

So stop the wondering.
And you will begin to have it, when you drop the rope and let your h crash by himself.
You are an amazing woman to have dealt so well with this $hitty hand.

You deserve so much better than this. I can't wait for when you realize it!

((( )))