I'll pile on - what's really at risk here is your mental and emotional health, or at least what's left.
During my first attempt at DBing with XW, I basically let her walk all over me like that, and I ended up being very broken myself for almost 2 years. DBing is being a doorway, not a doormat.
So, if telling him to stop and that he doesn't have the right to treat me that way doesn't work, what do you propose? Living elsewhere for a while? I do feel horribly about what I did and was desperate in the beginning just for him not to be done with me that I cowered to anything and everything. As time passes, its not that I don't feel bad for what I did, but now that I'm standing up for myself, he sees this as me not feeling guilty about what I did. He says that I'm not paying any consequences and I'm getting away scott-free...as if his words and actions aren't punishment enough. What is my "punishment" for this? I think in his mind, his words are the only punishment I'm getting, so its justified (to him.) IDK, obviously I've never been in this position before so I don't know what punishment fits the crime. I can say, living with the guilt of knowing what I did to him is hard, but to him that's not a consequence and I can't convince him that I feel that guilt. I stand up for myself...then I was "never truly sorry" and I'm acting as if it never happened. If I cower, then I lose my self-respect. Just so confused.
Mme P - The situation seems to be quite adversarial. Him demanding guilt and recompense from you but him never quite getting to forgiveness.
I don't know if this matches your previous relationship but is there any way you can think of to turn it from a him vs her into a partnership? Where you ask him, not a "how do I make this right" but "how can we work together to rebuild our love and trust"?
I, like many of us here are coming at this from a very different perspective. Most of us I believe want to forgive and trust our spouses again and know that we ourselves have to put in the hard work that will be required for those of us that actually get a chance.
I recall the story of one woman here - HaWho who to use her own words "pretzeled" herself to try to accommodate the demands of her husband. It didn't work. If I recall the story correctly, nothing that she did was ever good enough. So what I'm trying to suggest is if you two could work together on rebuilding the relationship you can build a better one than you had before and certainly a better one than where your H is acting as the foreman and shouting orders.
Just a thought - very proud of you.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I can't even address you by your screen name, because you are NOT pitiful. I am so so so glad Sandi wrote what she wrote to you.
I had a bad feeling from what you first wrote, and I really see why now. You said he could be cruel before your indiscretion. And I do not see this as an A. Maybe it would have become one, maybe not, but you had lack of better judgment, but you are not an adulterer.
Before this happened, he had a cruel streak as you described it. My ex had one of those too. I'm afraid he sees this indiscretion as now having an excuse to be cruel. And now you see it as an excuse for being cruel too. There is no excuse for being cruel, quite honestly. And that is what he is being to you.
Perhaps you need to start drawing some boundaries. letting him know "if you continue to keep treating me as less than human, I will have to move out until you decide you want to repair this marriage together with me. I will no longer tolerate your belittling me. I am sorry I have hurt you, and I would like to earn back your trust and love together with you, but I will not be abused."
Right now it he wants you to loathe yourself. And no one can having a healthy marriage from a place of loathing. And you shouldn't. Yous ay you were best friends prior to this, but best friends aren't cruel.
My ex spoke in a cruel manner to me. And it messed me up big time. Took a lot of time to repair that damage. Best friends don't do that.
please take care of yourself. Don't let him treat you the way he does because you think you deserve it. Your marriage will not be a long lasting one that way. And you will lose yourself.
Perhaps you need to start drawing some boundaries. letting him know "if you continue to keep treating me as less than human, I will have to move out until you decide you want to repair this marriage together with me. I will no longer tolerate your belittling me. I am sorry I have hurt you, and I would like to earn back your trust and love together with you, but I will not be abused."
I love this! You said it perfectly. Yesterday was good for the most part, but he did say a few little things and I stopped him and calmly told him I'm not going to allow him to talk to me that way. Apparently it sounded condescending to him and he said "or what, you gonna leave?" I asked him to look at the end of all of this and whether he wanted a wife with no self-respect. He didnt say much after that...good or bad.
I think I want to memorize what you said haha. I'm not quick-witted and always end up thinking of things to say later. Thank you for your encouragement.
When a person feels remorse, has cried and begged for forgiveness, was killing herself to be transparent 24/7, and allowing her H to take his wrath out on her..........what else does he want, in order for him to feel justified or satisfied she has suffered efficiently?
IMHO, a man, such as your H, already has a deep resentment issue that he has not let go. He lives his life with the resentment/anger just below the surface. His "mean streak" comes out, he does something to hurt, and then apologizes. But the cycle continues. It makes him angry whenever he thinks anyone gets off scott free......even people in the news, etc. So now, he has added you to his list of "Those Who Should Be Punished"!
Without therapy, I am very concerned that he will never let it completely go. He will not forgive, b/c that would let you off the hook (in his way of thinking). He will never feel that you have suffered enough, or long enough, for secretly talking to another man. His male ego and pride has been kicked where it hurts the worst, and he wants you to hurt just as badly. However, he doesn't stop with his punishment, b/c he has something else deeply enbedded that is urging his need to punish. So, calling you horrible, degrading names was not enough. He wants revenge, and he goes on a date with your friend. Then he disgraces his repentant W on Christmas day to his family. He brags about him dating OW. However, this is still not enough to satisfy his need to lash out and cause you pain. He thinks he will determine how long you should have to suffer. Instead of being H & W, the relationship becomes executioner and prisoner.......every day for as long as he sees fit.
If he had abusive tendencies, could this situation could push it into high gear? If you were to separate from him, would it elevate his anger? Does the thought of leaving him, scare you? I believe you said he had never hit you, but has he come close? Does he get mad enough to slam or throw things around? Does he get meaner when he drinks?
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IDK, obviously I've never been in this position before so I don't know what punishment fits the crime. I can say, living with the guilt of knowing what I did to him is hard, but to him that's not a consequence and I can't convince him that I feel that guilt. I stand up for myself...then I was "never truly sorry" and I'm acting as if it never happened. If I cower, then I lose my self-respect. Just so confused.
As I previously posted, it is not his job to execute punishment. You have begged for his forgiveness and told him how sorry you were, etc. Why would you punish someone who repents and wants to work on their M? You don't. Forgiveness is now in order, but he doesn't want to forgive, he wants to make you pay.
The consequences for talking to OM was your H knowing about it. Okay, now he knows. The next consequence is the fallout or his reaction. You have definitely faced that one. The next step should be him making the the decision to accept your apology, forgive you, and agree to MC, move forward in healing/working on the MR. But you don't stay in an ongoing punitive relationship! That is not a consequence you have to endure. That is punishment, which is different. If he wants to split, then do it. If he won't stop his abusive behavior, then get out of there.
You are guilt-ridden and you need to forgive yourself. Sweetheart, I know how hard that can be! You won't forget it, but you can live in forgiveness, rather than oppression. Why go around with ashes and sackcloth on your head every day from now on? Does he want you to wear a scarlet A over your chest, brand your forehead........or what? If you read many stories from the H's on this board, you will see how they yearn to hear an apology from their W. For her to feel remorse would be enough for most of them. Sure they were hurt, but they love their W and want to save their M. These H's ache to have a chance to move forward with their lives and rebuild a new MR. I am not seeing the same reaction in your H, currently.
Here's the thing. You have done everything possible to show your deep sorrow and your desire to be transparent to gain his trust and work with him to heal. He rejected it. He continues to brew contempt. My advice at the point, is to end your attempts in expressing to him your regret. Considering his own bad behavior, I think you need to stop making any references in connection to that incident, or how badly you feel about it. Both of you seem to overshadow his five hour revenge date with OW, b/c all the focus is on your phone call with OM. So now, things have plunged into another level in an unhealthy relationship.
Placing immediate distance from him, might break a cycle of punishing.....then having sex (or him letting you sleep with him). It could give him time to come to grips and decide if he wants you as a wife, or a just something to verbally & mentally kick around. It could place you in a healthier environment with less stress. It could clear your thoughts to see what you need and want in a MR. It could be a time to focus on building your self-esteem (b/c honey, it will stay beat down if you keep going like this). It could be effective in starting a new and better MR with him.......and under healthier terms (showing respect for each other, him going to therapy for his issues, engaging in a sound M healing program, etc). If you stay, he will keep it under his terms (which means no forgiveness, no therapy, no help for MR, and oppression continues). He will not see his actions as wrong. He will see it as JUSTICE! And with that kind of mindset, you will not be able to rise above what either of you have done. A separation could create enough healthy space to resolve or heal issues that exist. Instead of seeing a S as ending the M, see it as taking time apart in hopes of restablishing a better MR. I have seen many couples separate, sometime as long as a couple of years......and work through their problems (some under professional guidance), then slowly dating each other, and finally moving back together.
I am not trying to push you to do something you are against. I am just putting it out here to be read.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi2 - Thank you so much!! I am going to read this everyday and every time I start to feel like I am nothing and unworthy of his forgiveness and when he starts to remind me of that. You've given me a lot to think about and I appreciate the courage and strength you are giving me.
Forgiveness does not balance on the worthiness of the offender. The offender cannot work to be good enough to be forgiven of their transgressions. The offender can express remorse and show a willingness to make amends........however, they cannot earn forgiveness. It is not about if they deserve forgiveness, or not.
The act of forgiveness is an act of grace. The entire point of forgiveness is that the offender does not deserve it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am reconciling with my W (who had a PA)... for a little over two months. She has been remorseful, nice, apologized, cried, and physically and emotionally affectionate with me... more than she has been in 5 years... I am very lucky compared to others on this forum, because my W came back quickly after I confronted her about A... She has done homework on what to do to help the relationship move forward as the person who had the A and to help me.
I am doing reasonably well. I can have sex with her but I still have some mind movies of my W with someone else. I have faith that we will make it.
My problem is, that I have a fear that my W does not love me. It took me some thinking to get to what my problem "is". I never feared that my W would leave me before the A, now I know our R is fragile... My W said this will never happen again. And I believe she means it today. But now I have learned that "all" relationships are fragile.... So even though today, my W says and does a lot of good things, I now "know" that our R is fragile---thus the fear.
I am not getting comfortable with this realization. And it will be ok.
I wonder if your H now has a fear (and he may not have realized it yet) that you may not love him in the future... so even though you are doing all the right things... this fear is causing him to behave poorly.
I think it is hard for a man to say "I have a fear that you do not truly love me or you will not fully love me tomorrow..." so I am acting like a jerk to protect myself....
Just some ideas....
Not sure if I have answers.... You can always say "I love you" more and also say., "it hurts my feeling that you want to go out with someone else"
My W has told me that she knows she has no right to say anything if I were to go out and sleep with someone else... but it would hurt her feelings.... also she shows signs of jealousy.... These signals are helpful for me. As a caveman.... it helps to see signs of jealousy---which means she loves me and it helps for her to use words and tell me he feelings would be hurt, I do not want to hurt my W...
H (me) 52, W 42 M 15 D14, S12 PA June and Sept 2016 Found out Sept, confronted Oct NC with OM since Oct, remorseful Dating since Nov
My problem is, that I have a fear that my W does not love me. It took me some thinking to get to what my problem "is". I never feared that my W would leave me before the A, now I know our R is fragile... My W said this will never happen again. And I believe she means it today. But now I have learned that "all" relationships are fragile.... So even though today, my W says and does a lot of good things, I now "know" that our R is fragile---thus the fear.
I am not getting comfortable with this realization. And it will be ok.
I wonder if your H now has a fear (and he may not have realized it yet) that you may not love him in the future... so even though you are doing all the right things... this fear is causing him to behave poorly.
I think it is hard for a man to say "I have a fear that you do not truly love me or you will not fully love me tomorrow..." so I am acting like a jerk to protect myself....
Just some ideas....
He hasn't said it in those exact words, but he has said he is afraid I don't love him anymore, that and that he believes this will happen again. I do love him more than anything, but on the other hand, I can't live the rest of my life or even a long time with him talking to me this way. Him acting that way doesn't make me want to love him more and I do try to put myself in his shoes. Does that make sense? For example, the other day I told him I loved him so much in a text. He never responded then had some cruel words for me that night. The next time I wanted to say I love you, I stopped myself because I didnt want to deal with or hear any harsh words again. At the same time, I know this is exactly what I did to him. I hurt him and betrayed his trust, yet I'm wanting him to still love me and show me he loves me. That takes some vulnerability on his part...opening himself up to someone who he knows has the ability to hurt him.
I'm not excusing his words and lately its gotten better. I tell him we're either moving our R in a positive direction or negative. I'm not telling him he doesn't have the right to be angry or feel hurt anymore and that we need to forget this, but that his words aren't helping the situation, only making it worse.
Your W sounds a lot like me. All I can say, is if she's still there, she still loves you. That is all I can tell my H when he says he's afraid I don't love him anymore and that I will just do this again. If I wanted out, I would have used this as an excuse to leave. Instead, I'm sticking around and dealing with the consequences for my wrong and trying to make it right.
