I’ve been doing a lot of reading here lately which can probably tell you where my head is at as far as my relationship is concerned.
A little about my situation:
Me: 30
W: 30
M: 7 years
T: 11 years
S: 6
S: 3
I guess I’ll start from the beginning:
I met my wife while attending college. I was extremely attracted to her the first time I saw her, but she was involved in a relationship. I was attending school on an athletic scholarship and she was going here to be close to her BF at the time.
Fast-forward a few years: When I proposed to her, I already knew there were some underlying mental issues. She is genetically predisposed to depression, as both my SIL and FIL have it. SIL has finally sought to remedy her situation with medication, FIL is very against using prescriptions in general, and is very opinionated about this fact.
My W has been on again, off again in her med use for the entirety of our relationship. Currently, she is off meds as she blames her lack of sex drive on them. I have a very high sex drive and hers is quite low. At this point I’m not really sure how much medication plays into that.
Part of why we are where we are is due to me and some of my habits: I’m very involved in our community with coaching my son’s hockey, coaching other sports for the local high school, and competing, and there are times in the year where I am probably not home as much as I should be. On one hand, my wife pushes me to pursue this because of the added income for our family, but she has also told me that I have not made her a priority in my life, that I am too busy doing things for other people and not enough for her.
I love my wife truly and deeply, but I wrote off a lot of what she was saying because of how she was saying it. I didn’t realize how unhappy she was because I would chalk a lot of what was going on (mood swings, yelling, abusive language) to her depression and anger.
I received the full message the morning after a family event hosted at my parent’s house. I was manning the grill for the entirety of the event (5 hours) while my wife mingled with friends and family. I guess I didn’t notice what was going on, but apparently one of my BILs friends was all over her. My brother and sisters and wife asked me to go out with them to the club after the supper was over, but I told them I should probably get the boys to bed because my mom and dad were looking after my sister’s little guy (1.5yrs). My brother freaked out a little bit about this, I assume because of what was going on. I literally had no idea.
I woke up to my mother sitting in the living room with a cup of coffee; this was early and the partiers were still sleeping. “I think you guys need marriage counseling,” were the first words out of her mouth.
I was quite taken aback as I really thought everything was fine. After my mom filled me in, I was very upset with her. “How dare you question the sanctity of my relationship,” I told her; “everything is fine between us.”
“If you truly believe that, then there really is a problem,” she said.
My aunt then came upstairs and shed a little more light on the situation. Seems the guy was a bit of a creep and my W wasn’t reciprocating, but wasn’t pushing him away, either. Then she added that my wife had been running around all night like a crazy person, telling everyone that I “didn’t love her anymore,” and that she “felt like my sex slave.”
It was a long ride home from my parents place, but it gave us a chance to talk a bit. She openly denied anything inappropriate with the guy. I believed her because she was drinking.
She told me that things between us hadn’t been good for a long time and that she was really frustrated about my being gone all the time. She told me that she believes I’m a great father and that I’m wonderful with the kids, but that I’ve left her with a lot of the household responsibilities because I’m gone, and that she wants me to be a “partner.”
I told her that I’d been feeling down a little bit for a multitude of reasons. I’m a people pleaser, I felt like I wasn’t making her happy, which was really hard on me. I’m getting older and I still have a desire to compete, but I felt like she didn’t want me to do those things. I brought up the sex, how I am always initiating and that it makes me feel like pervert. That when we do it, it always feels like an inconvenience for her and that I wanted her to start initiating that a little more. I promised to be more helpful around the house as well.
When we got home I committed to rededicating myself to our marriage. Her LL is acts of service, mine is obviously physical touch. I’ve spent the last 7 weeks putting my time and energy back into her and our home. I’ve spoken with our athletic director and told him I didn’t know how much time I would be able to dedicate to our athletics this year, and told our amateur team manager that I would not be competing in the State tournament this summer.
We’ve been on a few dates. The first one was the last time we’ve had any sexual contact. That was August 11th. I’ve tried to initiate a few times since then, but she tenses up and is not responsive to my advances.
The last date we went on I asked her about how she felt I was doing and she stated that she sees that I’m putting in the effort, but she’s just wondering if I can keep it up once I get busy with things. I told her I’m planning on not competing; that I need to learn to live my life without that (this is really hard for me personally, because I’m competitive by nature) because it’s put a strain on our M.
She was going to be gone for work out of town the next Friday and asked to spend the night out of town and into the next day so that she could “just think.” This made me nervous but I told her that she needed to do what was best for her. I also asked her to talk to a therapist and to consider returning to medication and this upset her a great deal. I ended up sleeping on the couch.
I’m getting a lot of WAW vibes from her, but I don’t want it to turn into that. I’m a guy that really needs verbal acknowledgement that I’m doing things right and she has not been very forthcoming with that information. I’m really trying not to push.
A lot of the advice I read on this board is about detaching and GALing, things that I’m actually trying not to do because of the tension they seem to create. At the same time I’m trying to decipher what is truly a problem, and what is chemical because of the depression issues. The hardest part about all of this is that her feelings are what she feels, regardless of whether she really feels that way or if it’s just chemicals.
I’m also struggling with insecurity for the first time on our relationship. Part of me wonders if there’s someone else in the picture or if she really just needs time to reflect. She says she’s trying, but I don’t get that sense. I feel like I’m in limbo right now.
I told her that I would let her initiate sexual contact when she is ready, but it’s been 5 weeks and It’s getting harder and harder not to try to initiate something. I
I’m trying to initiate non-sexual physical contact. When I first started, she would pull away. She has been more open to small kisses and hugs more recently, though. She still says, “Love you too” when I tell her I love her.
I am also masturbating frequently and using a lot of the advice Michele gives for the “High Sex Drive partner” in a “sexless marriage.”
I’m just feeling very unloved right now and I want to get to a better place with my W.
I just really hope she isn’t having an Affair because it would crush me.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
We had two pretty big blowups yesterday. The first was when she got home. I was trying to initiate more contact between us and she wouldn’t get off her phone. This was very, very frustrating for me and I felt very disrespected by it. She said that she wanted some space, and began doing work stuff on her laptop. I told her that if she was that busy and didn’t want to be bothered, that maybe she should go back to the office to work. This started a conversation that went from defensive, to what I thought was progressive.
I told her that I hade been trying for a solid two months to do the things she asked of me (cleaning, picking up around the house, cooking etc.). She told me again that she doesn’t want a D, that she could see that I was putting in the effort, and that she wants to feel that emotional connection with me, but something is preventing her from “letting go.” She’s waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, and for me to stop doing the things I’m doing. I told her that I’ve heard what she is asking from me, and that I won’t stop doing these things.
I also told her that it is really hard for me to keep doing this when we both agreed we’d work together on repairing the relationship, and that I was glad she could see I was doing those things, but felt like she was withholding my needs from me. I brought up physical touching and sex with her. I told her that the last weeks I’ve felt very alone, and not because we weren’t ML, but because she wouldn’t smile at me, try to hold my hand, hug me, or touch me in any way. She said that I only think this is hard on me, that I don’t realize how hard it is for her to know I need those things and not be able to give them to me, but that she had heard me and understood what I needed.
Fast-forward to later in the evening. She told me that she was going to go and shave her legs. I thought I saw a look in her eyes and tone in her voice and that we were on the same page. When she crawled into bed, I waited a while to see if she would initiate something, but she didn’t, so I slid over and began to kiss her. It was awful, she laid there like a maniquin, not really kissing back. I thought to myself “ok, maybe she just needs some time to warm up.” I let my hands wander a little too much I guess, because she shot up out of bed and said that she was going to sleep on the couch. I convinced her to stay so we could discuss the situation. I was obviously frustrated and she was upset as well. I told her that I thought we were on the same page after our conversation earlier that evening, and that I was sorry, I thought I had picked up some signs that just weren’t there.
We talked a little more and she brought up the fact that I had asked her to see a counselor and to maybe consider going back on meds. She had gone to a counselor on Tuesday. I knew this and she was upset that I didn’t ask her about it. I told her that I figured that if she wanted to discuss the visit with me, she would bring it up.
She told me that she had told this counselor everything that she had discussed with me earlier, and that all the lady really said was that the feelings she’s having are perfectly normal.
She was upset that I asked her to talk to someone and consider going back on meds because it made her feel like I think she is the problem. I explained to her that I don’t associate her and the depression, that I believe they are two separate things. I told her that I know my W and that when she went through her rough bouts after our first son was born. I told her how hard that was for me when she would lash out and call me names; scream at me for absolutely no reason, and cry uncontrollably for hours on end. Since that time, I told her, I’ve always had to guess what was really truly her, and what was the depression and that’s why I had such a tough time hearing her message before when she would try to tell what she needed.
We had a talk about the things I did that made her feel like she wasn’t my priority, or that I didn’t love her. A lot of those events revolved around me being late for dinner after a practice where I was helping out a kid or discussing something with another coach, but the things that made her most upset was the time my hobbies would take up. In the past, I’ve always used my Monday and Wednesday nights as hobby nights for me. I shoot competitive archery and practice at the range on Monday, while I play pickup hockey on Wednesday nights after my son’s practice. She felt like I was actively trying to avoid her.
I told her that I understand why she would feel that way, but that these things had nothing to do with the love I felt for her. These things were things that I needed for me in order to feel relevant and successful (if you’re a former athlete, you may understand the personal struggle I’ve been going through), and that if she had just asked me to stay on any of those night, that I would’ve said yes. She said that she didn’t want to feel like a “naggy” wife, but that there were times she had hinted that she would rather see me stay home. I told her that she just needed to be really transparent with me on those things, because I will hear her.
She wanted to know if I would be interested in seeing a counselor, and I asked her if she wanted me to see one, or if she wanted to see one together. She stated that she wanted to go together. I told her that if we were going to do this, that I wanted to go to somebody that specializes in this type of situation; somebody that I have confidence in.
Things ended with her coming back to bed. I woke up this morning and she did give me a hug. We kissed goodbye as well.
My W has been on again, off again in her med use for the entirety of our relationship. Currently, she is off meds as she blames her lack of sex drive on them. I have a very high sex drive and hers is quite low. At this point I’m not really sure how much medication plays into that.
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I love my wife truly and deeply, but I wrote off a lot of what she was saying because of how she was saying it. I didn’t realize how unhappy she was because I would chalk a lot of what was going on (mood swings, yelling, abusive language) to her depression and anger.
So lets see if I have this straight, she is depressed and angry - not on meds and does she admit to any of this? Or is it all your fault?
Mowgli, welcome, this is such an unfortunate place to meet but you will meet a lot of great people in similar situations. The first thing that comes to mind is that it seems you guys still have a chance before she decided to become a WAW. Have you gotten the DR or DB books? If not, start there. Continue to give her space and time when she asks, look into your contribution to the fallout of your M and do 180s. I wouldn't GAL right now if that is a point of contention between the two of you, focus on how you can improve your M.
Continue to post here, let out everything in your mind and heart here.
M: 34 W: 33 S: 7 S: 14 months BD: 6/2015 Separation: 6/2015 Back and Forth between Home and Moms
She can get very angry and refuses to listen, but it's not an everyday thing. It's like one day she just snaps and then then everything's fine the next day. It's so confusing to me because I don't know which W I'm getting when she walks in the door.
She is pretty adamant that she is not depressed right now, and I think that is why she got so upset when I asked her about talking to a therapist and maybe considering meds again.
a little more background:
Right after my oldest S was born, my W went into a pretty severe PP depression. She would lash out relentlessly at me; it didn't matter what I said or did, there was always something wrong. This really took it's toll on me emotionally, as I'm a pretty emotional guy anyways. It all got to be too much and there was a time when I seriously considered leaving for good. Eventually, I think in order to protect my self emotionally, I became immune to the yelling and crying. In order to love my wife, I had to mentally separate her from her depression and anxiety.
I really believe that a lot of the problems today stem from that first year of my son's life. By the time she finally agreed to get on medication, I was worn out physically and mentally. When I had one foot out the door, I stuck it out. It was so hard, but after the meds things got much better, and then she got pregnant again.
You have never seen a happier person than my W when she is pregnant. It was like I was in heaven! My sex life was phenomenal! About the only time she can really keep up with my drive is when she's pregnant and I loved it! We even arranged to get meds set up for right after my youngest was born, but she didn't react well to the new stuff. She was lethargic and unmotivated; her sex drive dropped right off the table. She wasn't mean, though, not like before.
At the same time I was going through some changes. I lost 65lbs, just started a new job, we had purchased our first home and bought a dog and a cat to top things off. The white picket fence wasn't in the picture, but the American Dream had been attained! I was wanting to be out and be active. It was then that I was asked to start coaching. Football overlapped with hockey season, which in turn overlapped with Spring baseball. I was shooting archery once a week, shooting a Saturday or Sunday tournament once a month in the Winter, and playing hockey once a week as well.
While I became more involved in the community and made more friends, My wife was stuck in a job with a new boss who was less than ideal. The life was being sucked out of her at work, then she'd come home and have a house and two kids to take care of, and a husband who wasn't home nearly as much as he needed to be, and when he was home, he was playing with the kids, or training the dog.
I had stopped cooking because I was never home in time for supper anyways. I was so busy with my own thing that the only time I ever paid my wife any attention was when we were in the bedroom. And what would she want to do? Talk to me of course! Talk to the one adult in her life who she believed had the ability to make her feel better about herself and her situation. She was mentally and physically exhausted from a day full of kids, and a terrible work situation. How could she possibly want to ML after a day like that?
Did I see any of this? Not a chance! I heard "I'm too tired" and then she'd want to talk. In my stupid pig-headed brain I rationalized the only thing I could: "Well if she's not too tired to talk, she sure isn't too tired to have sex!" This led to feelings of resentment on my end. I'm not getting what I want and so I get frustrated and I begin to ask for what I want, which is sex.
And all of a sudden, I'm having my needs met, at least partially. I ask and I receive and so I think "all is good, right?" Wrong. The whole time this is going on, I am meeting none of my W's needs. She's hinting to me that she's not happy, but I can't hear it. She gets crabby with me when I'm late coming home from practice, or when I say I'm going out to shoot, or play hockey or baseball. And I chalk it up to the depression and anxiety because that's what I reprogrammed myself to do after the PP depression. I shut myself up in a mental pillbox to keep from getting hurt. She tells me she feels like a "sex slave," and I take it as a joke because as she's saying it, we're mid coitus!
I can honestly say with full confidence that if she had just asked me to stay home on any of those nights in a different way, I would've done it, but because of how it was said, I wasn't able to "hear" the message.
So she is resenting me because I'm not hearing what she's saying and the resentment builds a wall around her heart, and the wall is protected with anger. When I get close to it, I'm met with anger and I retreat to my pillbox to keep from getting hurt.
Does that stop me from asking for my needs? Nope! But now I'm getting frustrated because I feel like she should want to initiate some of this and she's not, and I'm really starting to feel guilty about it because I can sense some of this resentment towards sex.
The whole time I feel like I'm dealing with a depression issue when what I need to be focusing on is opening up and listening. Validating my W's feelings and actually hearing what she has to say. No wonder she got so pissed when I asked her to think about meds again!
Wow! Does writing stuff down help clarify a lot of issues or what? I seriously just mapped out the entire problem in one post! and at this point I can say that I've probably created a lot of my own issues because I've been selfish. I understand where that selfishness is coming from as well. I have to let go of the past and re-learn how to connect with my W.
She is pretty adamant that she is not depressed right now, and I think that is why she got so upset when I asked her about talking to a therapist and maybe considering meds again.
And I am adamant that you not believe anything she says.
Yes you need to listen and validate, you can try to meet her needs however that may not be enough at this point.
If she has checked out of the marriage then you can not FIX her.
If she is depressed you can not FIX her.
Focus on FIXING YOU. Change yourself into a person only a fool would leave.
Last night felt good but awkward. She seemed like she was in a good place, but I just felt really lonely. We didn’t touch. We discussed marital therapists via text earlier in the day, but didn’t get to have that conversation last night as she fell asleep in S3’s room and didn’t come to bed until 11:30. I thought I heard her phone taking pictures, but I was asleep already, so I don’t know.
Personal Goals:
1) Stop thinking there’s something going on with someone else. I have no proof, and I’m not sure I want it. It really shouldn’t affect what I’m trying to accomplish anyways. If there is, he’s a product of the situation and not the cause.
2) Get better at validating what my wife is saying. I need to process the message and not focus on how it is being said.
3) Learn to drink a STFU smoothie every now and then. I tend to dominate conversations and talk too much about my feelings and what is going on in my head. It comes off as selfish and doesn’t leave enough doors open within a conversation to let my W express herself adequately.
4) Tell my mom and sisters to drink STFU smoothies as well. They make me look like a dillhole in front of my wife, and try to put all the problems back on me. While I obviously have a part to play in this, it is first and foremost a communication issue.
5) Be consistent in my housework/be around. The best thing I can do right now is just be present. Use my time and energy to help out around the house, and cut back on the amount I’m gone.
6) Put the toolbox away and realize that this didn’t happen overnight and I’m not going to fix it overnight. I’ve been working at “fixing” this problem for 7 weeks, but the problem has been there for years and has been allowed to fester. Big mess= big cleanup and I have to go slow and do this right. If there is a next time, she’ll walk for sure!
7) Stay focused/committed. Don’t get frustrated on those days when she is lashing out. Listen for the information that is there, but don’t argue over, or get caught up in the “always/never” statements. I know what I need to be doing to make this situation better, and if medication is needed, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. Assume it’s not needed for the time being.
8) Find activities that we can do together without the kids. Maybe not right away, but definitely when we start to get a little more comfortable with each other. Make sure they are something we will both enjoy and I’m not just trying to force her into one of my hobbies. Maybe a cooking class? Wine tasting?
1) Stop thinking there’s something going on with someone else. I have no proof, and I’m not sure I want it. It really shouldn’t affect what I’m trying to accomplish anyways. If there is, he’s a product of the situation and not the cause.
2) Get better at validating what my wife is saying. I need to process the message and not focus on how it is being said.
3) Learn to drink a STFU smoothie every now and then. I tend to dominate conversations and talk too much about my feelings and what is going on in my head. It comes off as selfish and doesn’t leave enough doors open within a conversation to let my W express herself adequately.
4) Tell my mom and sisters to drink STFU smoothies as well. They make me look like a dillhole in front of my wife, and try to put all the problems back on me. While I obviously have a part to play in this, it is first and foremost a communication issue.
5) Be consistent in my housework/be around. The best thing I can do right now is just be present. Use my time and energy to help out around the house, and cut back on the amount I’m gone.
6) Put the toolbox away and realize that this didn’t happen overnight and I’m not going to fix it overnight. I’ve been working at “fixing” this problem for 7 weeks, but the problem has been there for years and has been allowed to fester. Big mess= big cleanup and I have to go slow and do this right. If there is a next time, she’ll walk for sure!
7) Stay focused/committed. Don’t get frustrated on those days when she is lashing out. Listen for the information that is there, but don’t argue over, or get caught up in the “always/never” statements. I know what I need to be doing to make this situation better, and if medication is needed, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. Assume it’s not needed for the time being.
8) Find activities that we can do together without the kids. Maybe not right away, but definitely when we start to get a little more comfortable with each other. Make sure they are something we will both enjoy and I’m not just trying to force her into one of my hobbies. Maybe a cooking class? Wine tasting?
How do those look?
These are a good start. But you need to be more specific so that you will know if you met them or not. For example, how will you know if you succeeded in "drinking a STFU smoothie now and then"?
I also wouldnt worry about #8 just yet. It doesnt sound like shes in that place.
