Right. And it'd be great it kids "wanted" to do their chores, too, and people "wanted" to eat cauliflower!"
Do what you have to do to LEAD. Speaking lovingly, but be firm and resolute. Let the chips fall where they may; if she is sincere on wanting to work on things, she will comply.
When a wayward spouse is truly ready, you will get a "I will do whatever it takes -- just tell me" statement. Maybe she's not really ready.
Maybe, maybe not. I will only find out by demanding passwords. Problem is if she's not ready "yet" then I've basically blown the R- I can't back down or accept anything less as that will make me lose all credibility- which means no choice but full steam ahead into D mediation proceedings. High stakes, yet again.
What I'm trying to wrap my head around is what I actually gain by demanding transparency- I can hack her phone if I really wanted to- so to me it seems to me the answer is that I'm trying to gain a commitment that she is committed to working on the M. Interesting for me to demand that from her when I'm not even sure I am ready to jump in with both feet to the R process given all the hurt so far. Then again, I'm not the cheating spouse.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
I hear what you're saying, but this ("I cannot feel safe in a marriage where my wife is still in contact with her former affair partner") is either a non-negotiable core boundary with you -- a "dealbreaker" as it were -- or it's not.
If it's not, then you shouldn't be demanding it.
If it is, you shouldn't worry about how she's going to respond to it.
Only you know what those 2-3 main, non-negotiable "boundaries of personal integrity" (as I call them) are. We can't answer that for you, Bart.
Maybe you should google and read up on "no contact" and "transparency plans" and "infidelity" and learn more about how to set them up, what their purpose is, etc.
I situations are pretty similar. What you gain from transparency is knowing that she is committed to you and will work 100% on your M. It shows true remorse for what she did. Yes, all of us had a big hand in the state of our Ms. But we did not cheat.
It seems to me that you have three choices...
#1: Stop the mediation process, give your wife time but don't go plan B. Pretend you are a happy couple. I can think of a lot of reasons why this is a bad option. I get Starsky can think of 174 reasons why this is a bad option. #2: Stop the mediation process and give your wife time. You stop asking for anything and just move forward. You GAL, detach and go as dark as you can. This would be the plan B approach. A lot of folks seem to go this route before they feel they have reached the end of the patience. #3: You continue down the mediation process path...basically the after LRT. if this wakes your wife up, great. If she does not and refuses to provide transparency, refuses to apologize and shows no remorse for what she did, then you will end up Divorced.
Everyone on these boards will advocate for the second or third option. Maybe you are not ready to file for D. That is totally your choice. So you move on with your life and pursue #2. Or you pursue #3 because you refuse to be in an open M and share your W with someone else.
If you end up Divorced b/c your W refused to provide total transparency and refused to cut off ties to the OM, is that a bad thing? I know, Divorce is bad. No one on these boards wants it. But, do you want to stay married to someone who is not faithful to you and not honest with you?
As Starsky said, only you can decide the answers to these questions.
As for me, I refuse to share my W with someone else. I would rather be divorced from her then continue to deal with the pain of my W involving a third party in our M.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
Bart .. man I feel ya ... and I wish I was atleast at the point you are where the W is willing to work for 3 months. Take this as a positive ... I get the NC and transparency thing .. but try to focus on how close you are.
You feel the NC is actually attainable .. go with that. Focus on yourself as you have, seems you two are at a stand off and someone has to give first, you feel that with all the hurt is should be her, I am sure she feels the past years of all the hurt it should be you.
I have little to offer other than I am watching closely as I hope to one day be in this spot ... I have alot of the issues you described and know this topic is a slippery slope. I have to stop myself and think about having that road paved back home to be as smooth as possible, that's brutal with the hurt that has been caused and I too don't think I can go through committing not knowing if she is in or out. .... but by pressing I know I can force her out quickly. So I can totally relate ... watching and rooting for you!
So we're moving forward very slowly and carefully. W sent the NC txt to OM, copying me and OM's GF. Commitment to full transparency, complete truthfullness and giving me the access I require to eletronic devices made.
Like the crazy 20 somethings they both are, OM and GF both resonded spewing crap, but so far W has stayed above it and maintained NC. She has asked me if she can respond to defend herself, to which I said no- W needs to not be emotitionally vested in what these people think, and she's not there yet. Very frank disucssions where W acknowledges she still has work to do to completely detach, but A is clearly over. W shared details with me about the crazy fight with OM and how she filed a police report. W has also voluntarily reached out to MIL and SIL to tell them its over and ask for their support and help.
Tone of our conversations have changed and W is being open about her emotions and feelings in ways I don' think I've seen before, even discussing how she finally realized how destructive A was to her and us and why she went to OM in the first place, and why A continued even though she knew it wasn't good for her. She's got a long way to go to be emotionally free of OM but she is committed to getting there, but I know that will take time. I'm also detached from her and have a long way to go to both trust and desire her again.
So, slow baby steps. Long, long road but we are walking side by side for the first time in a long while.
Last edited by Bart42; 10/13/1404:28 PM.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
I was SO pleased to see your post just now! This is AWESOME news!!!
You deserve this -- you've worked hard. Just know that there are going to be FITS AND STARTS to this, and your wife's emotions are going to swing WILDLY in all likelihood. Come here to post if you need help; we're here for you.
"our wife's emotions are going to swing WILDLY in all likelihood"
^This is what scares me^
I love this success story, though! I know it's not over yet, but I'd give my right arm to be here where you are.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Sounds great, Bart. All I have to add is to be there to encourage her b/c she will have some tough times ahead. I hope she has some resources to help her through the detaching & withdrawal period. It is hard for her not to defend herself, but you absolutely told her right. No contact means no contact for any reason, even if she is defending you or herself. Right now, she doesn't see they don't deserve her response, however, some day she will see it.
Maybe I have already said this on your thread, but transparency, I believe, is also for the WW, to help her stay strong as she works through this hard period in the MR. It has to be team effort in order to work best.
Very good job, Bart!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
