Do I tell him all I know?

[slow_it_down]

In my experience, it's best to pretend the OWs don't even exist. When you are having fun, being happy and doing interesting things, your H will naturally draw closer. Talking about the OWs with him right now will only cause him to feel anger or guilt... Neither of which you want him feeling around you.

Live your life and let him figure his own life out. If you do a good job DBing the OWs may fade away all on their own.

[sonas]

Yes you are so right MrBond, there were many factors leading up the A's and exposing what he is doing isn't going to stop him for now. But, I feel that he hates himself and what he is doing and is simply trying to 'feel' something.

Immediately following the first A he told me that 'we had grown apart' (this much was true), that 'we didn't have that much common' (not really true), that I didn't do things with that he enjoyed doing like playing golf, fishing - ( I thought this was odd as he did these things with male friends only and it was never the case that he wanted me to go - but we had stopped doing things together).

My answer to all of this was 'I didn't realise you felt that way' (through tears) and could we go to MC. He said no, he had no interest in MC.

Some months later, while his first A was still going on, I suggested that if we going to break up, we needed to tell our children and our families but he asked me not to saying he didn't know what he wanted anymore. I agreed to wait and am still waiting.

He did end the A, telling her he needed to be on his own to sort his head out (i.e. having her 'waiting' too) and they are still 'friends' (with benefits I think!!!!). Last month I asked him why he was still communicating with her and he said 'I don't hate her' but that I had 'nothing to worry about as far as she is concerned'. I think this means that the 'infatuation' is over and he realises that he while he doesn't love her, he also doesn't love anyone???

I am doing many things I haven't done in the past to improve our M - it is difficult as he isnt home often but when he is I go out with him to the bar whenever he wants, I talk with him about lots of things while trying to avoid the R talks, I do places with him, i try to be with him whenever he wants me to and to be busy when he doesn't.

When he is away, I try very hard not to message him unless he initiates it and when he does I respond lightheartedly and lovingly. I make sure that the children keep in touch by email and skype. I sent him messages of support and encouragement when he least expects them but have told him that I don't accept his behaviour (keeping these comments to a minimum).

I don't think, in his current state of mind he is blaming me and I don't think he will again, he blames himself now, sadly because he is hurting himself.

However, i do think my snooping really angers him, and the exposure of the extent of it will probably make him very angry with me.

I don't think he will accuse me of 'trying to ruin his happiness' because he had told me that he not happy, he knows what he is doing is not making him happy but seems powerless to stop, perhaps it makes him 'feel' at least temporarily??

I hadn't thought of exposing or having an 'intervention' involving other people. I had just thought of telling him in an email that I know what he is doing, how he is living his life and that I find it unacceptable and would prefer if he wouldn't come home until he stopped???

OR,

maybe tell him that while I no control over what he does abroad, I need to have some control over his behavior when he comes home, that I didn't want him to come home unless he would guarantee that he would refrain from online dating, communicating with other women etc. while here. What do you think?

[sonas]

Got it!!! thanks and sorry!!!

[sonas]

Good advice, thank you so much. Yes, i have noticed his anger and guilt whenever I mention his OW's so I will have to stop!!

However, it is not easy - but I will keep trying. It is so much more difficult when I don't see him very much and feel that it is difficult for him to notice me getting on with life, finding joy and doing interesting things when he is not here - (he is on a different continent) and I wonder how he can draw closer to me when he is being fatalistic thinking he has no choice but to live apart from me and his family for at least 10 years. How do I deal with that??

[GoatGal]

(Can SOMEBODY tell me who the heck all these younger woman are who want our messed up, older husbands??? I'd run from these guys like the plague! I don't get it....)

I wish I had something useful to add, but I I don't.

Other than, activating our H's "guilt" response is not helpful.

Even if it's not on purpose, that feeling of "bad" when they're talking to us or around us, just makes them want to avoid us more.

I was guilty of saying things that inadvertently made him feel guilty about how I was living (like a friggin' pioneer with no heat and no running water!) or issues with the animals when he wasn't here to help.

I *thought* I was just relaying information, even showing my great strength, out in the blizzard with my cane, (back flared up) carrying wood for the fire.

Instead of him admiring my fortitude, he told me he felt "EVEN WORSE" because he felt guilty... and so... he didn't want to face me.

So whatever you can do to show him "happy, moving on, making plans for my future" sonas, that's what you need to do.

Fake it 'till you make it.

Avoid any questions or comments about OW.
She/they are irrelevant in the big picture and you can't control it anyway.

You have the proof you need, let it rest.

Sounds like he's stuck in his own vortex and the best you can do is stay out of it as much as you can.


Hang in there!


---GG

[sonas]

Thank you GoatGal, I am listening!!
I skyped him today sounding cheerful, my normal self to ask him a few general things about work on our house, this was a few hours after finding out that he was with the original OW last week and was trying to start up the relationship again.

Anyway he said he would be home the last week in July, for about a week, i had been thinking of asking him not to come home until he 'knew what he wanted' but in the end i sounded happy that we would be seeing him and he sounded happy to be arranging another trip.

So i have a few weeks to get my act together and 'be happy, moving on'.

I live in a damp cottage, a little isolated, with no curtains (only cows can look in) and I also relayed information about getting logs (no central heating) in the winter, and mentioned that i might look into getting an alarm because it could be a bit scary when the kids were out and I was alone. And yes, this just made him feel more guilty (OW advised him that money would cover all these issues for his W and kids when he told her that he felt bad).

I will be re-reading your advice above when he comes home so that i am ready!!

I will 'let it rest'! you are right........

[Cadet]

(Can SOMEBODY tell me who the heck all these younger woman are who want our messed up, older husbands??? I'd run from these guys like the plague! I don't get it....

Research affair down.

It is part of the script and they are likely to be messed up themselves - TBH.

Two messed up people making a new relationship is a recipe for failure - ergo - second marriages fail at a 75% rate.

[sonas]

Very down today, crying alot (while trying to work!!).

My not 'initiating' communication and delaying my reponses to his seems to have backfired a bit. Thought I was doing well but H seems to interpret this as my not really caring and that he is not needed by me or his children, the more happy I seem the more he seems to think that it ok for him to have an OW and to 'enjoy' his life as I 'seem' to be enjoying mine.

I think I have pushed him back towards the OW, he had stayed away from her while I was validating him and sending him messages of encouragement and initiating contact without expectation of a reply.

Don't have any idea what to do next, any suggestions?

I am GALing as best I can and 'acting as if'.

I have no expectations but think I have enabled him to be 'stuck' .
He seems to have stopped trying to have relationships with much younger woman and wants the original OW back. She is single, divorced a long time, has her own income and is not dependent on anyone. She also seems like a nice person who genuinely cares about H but wants him to sort himself out and end his relationship with me. Maybe she is what he needs and I am not.

[pilot]

Sorry you are having a bad day. I am not sure your efforts are backfiring. Your H is still a WAS which means there is no logic or reason behind what he is doing, only emotion. You are on the right track in that your H has noticed you being happy. Give him time to see who he fell in love with BEFORE the OW.

[GoatGal]

My not 'initiating' communication and delaying my reponses to his seems to have backfired a bit. Thought I was doing well but H seems to interpret this as my not really caring and that he is not needed by me

I have the same problem. You can still validate, be friendly, happy, and compassionate without seeming needy or clingy. You just be the cool chick he'd like to be around. You enjoy his company, in small doses, when he is on his best behavior. You do not seek him out or stroke his ego.
After all--he's been cheating on you! He knows he's a heel. What kind of woman keeps telling him what a great guy he is "deep down" while he's tromping all over your heart?


the more happy I seem the more he seems to think that it ok for him to have an OW and to 'enjoy' his life as I 'seem' to be enjoying mine.

You don't know this. I don't think he needs an "excuse" to act the way he's acting.
If you were acting helpless and miserable, would that bring him back?
If he sees you happy and moving on, he may use this as justification for his actions, but you can bet he'll notice.
But it's more to be happy FOR YOU, and a HAPPY YOU makes you more desirable as a partner.

I think I have pushed him back towards the OW, he had stayed away from her while I was validating him and sending him messages of encouragement and initiating contact without expectation of a reply.

This is not within your power to do. He makes his own decisions, and you validating at the wrong time and in the wrong way is not likely to cause him to cheat.
Sending him messages and keeping in touch does do one thing though, it lets him know that YOU ARE STILL THERE.
Like a little kid in the playground who always checks to see if Mommy is nearby before he attempts the monkey bars, you are giving him a safe base from which to operate.

As long as he knows he can count on you to be there no matter what, he will feel confident in his "explorations".

Just picture that same kid on the monkey bars when he checks and sees---Mommy isn't there watching him! Does he still feel "safe and secure"? Not on your life.

Same deal.

So--take it from me, I've been learning this the hard way.
Don't send messages of encouragement, don't initiate too much. If you do, make it non-emotional, just business as needed.
My H saw it as me trying to "help and support him" but he doesn't want that from me.
I get it. He has treated me terribly, and now I want to be "nice" to him?
I think it comes off really strange.

Best to look for REAL POSITIVE ACTIONS that he does, and validate those with sincere, (understated but clear) appreciation.
He doesn't need to be validated for who his is-- a formerly wonderful H, a loving father.
UNLESS he is actively doing those things that make him one RIGHT NOW, and that you can latch onto in order to give him positive feedback.

The fact is, right NOW he's probably not being the perfect dad and certainly not the perfect H.
He shouldn't be praised for merely existing, or have his hand held for having "problems".

I agree that insecure men need to feel appreciated and safe. They need to have their egos stroked to feel good about themselves. And we as wives can do this.
But we should ONLY be doing it when their actions warrant it.
PRAISE HIM for anything good he's doing. Make sure to recognize it, let him know--without gushing, just to the point--how much you appreciated when he DID X/Y/Z.
It may be something really small, but notice it and give him feedback.


I have no expectations but think I have enabled him to be 'stuck' .
Sorry. I wish it were up to you but it's not.
If he's stuck, he's stuck.
And he'll STAY stuck until realizes it, wants to get unstuck, and figures out how to do that.
I don't think you can help him with this.



Maybe she is what he needs and I am not.

That right there is where I would bring out my first dreaded 2 x 4 if I had one, sonas!!!!


Right now he may think exactly that. Or not. The whole POINT of the OW is that she is fantasy!
A wife and kids are reality.
He will tailor this fantasy to make it work for him as long as he can.

But YOU...don't you go there, or I'm going to the hardware store to get me a big ol' 2 x 4 and see if I can cram it into this laptop in case I hear more of that talk....!

Write a list of all your best qualities as a PERSON-- not a "wife"--- and post them here.

---GG