am I really ok with all that has happend?? can I really accept the a (ea?) that h had?? can we really move beyond it or will it forever be there?? will h ever be able to communicate his feelings to me?? does he already?? will I ever be comfortable with the r?? will ow move away and never return?? will there never be another ow?? am I making the right choice for myself in accepting h's discretion?? will I ever stop questioning myself? h? will h ever start telling me he loves me with regularity?? will h ever ask me to once again wear my rings??
I could go on and on...and I know that most of these questions have no answers...they just keep ruminating in my mind..some I try to stop and answer myself but they seem to creep back in again...
Holy Cow, I started my spring course May 1 and you have no idea how far behind I am in checking with my BB pals!
Just caught up with you though!
Lots of stuff here. I too, feel your anguish which does seem to border on depression at times. Cognitive Behavoural therapy or meds are viable options. Why suffer more than you need to???
About those dreams you posted earlier. Dreams usually reflect our OWN fears and issues. So likely as not, they were signalling your own concerns about your H's fidelity, past and future. I find it interesting that the woman in the second dreams' name was Sam....uh, does that have any particular significance on the board? (and I don't mean our beloved Sad's Sam, but just the acronym in general).
"He'll never change..." Silly alien monkey!
LL, there are so many things I could write to you about the OW and possibility of a pa etc, but would any of it help? Probably not.
Did you go to the open house??/ Oh! How tempting that would be!
LL, I read a little book called "Never be lied to again" which gives tips for when someone is lying or withholding info. I'm not proud of having read it, but I do feel somewhat empowered.
Now, for possibly the worst BB suggestion of all time (I can feel the 2X4's gearing up)...have you thought of asking ow about the extent of their R? I know it gives her power, it lets her know you don't trust what your H has said, there are countless reasons NOT to do that.
I just know that for me, having the ow confirm all of the details made it rather pointless for my H to lie any more.
I don't know, LL. I too would be a little suspicious of him getting rid of that stuff on his own. Why did he have it all locked away safe and sound until then?
Crap! I am NOT helping at all!!!!! I'm sorry LL!
I DO see really clear signs that your H DOES want YOU, has chosen YOU, is working hard in his own way to make your M work. I don't doubt any of that at all.
It just seems you are stuck on the details. So either you learn (at a gut/emotional level) to let it go, trust what he says, (probably the best way), or you gotta find out the truth.
BTW none of those letters etc scream out to me "PA"!!! Could all still be just the fantasy of "true love" high school style.
Interestingly, I have tons of stuff H wrote to OW, (which she "kindly" sent to me) but not one iota of stuff she wrote to him. I'd rather like to see some of that so I can laugh at her juvenile antics too.
Quote: I too, feel your anguish which does seem to border on depression at times. Cognitive Behavoural therapy or meds are viable options. Why suffer more than you need to???
because I'm just a glutton for punishment...I don't want to be on meds..I was given celexa over the summer during seperation and chose not to continue taking it...just not my way...I know little about cbt...could you give a little input on how that would work in my sit???
other than stewart smiley style..."I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and gosh darn it, people like me!!"
Quote: About those dreams you posted earlier. Dreams usually reflect our OWN fears and issues. So likely as not, they were signalling your own concerns about your H's fidelity, past and future. I find it interesting that the woman in the second dreams' name was Sam....uh, does that have any particular significance on the board? (and I don't mean our beloved Sad's Sam, but just the acronym in general).
dreams are a real bugger for me when I rembember them...never really nice and fluffy...I'm usually running...hiding...searching...flying away...in a big house...in a basement..in tunnels...in water...(have fun with those themes!! I know they're not good) I guess I didn't give much thought to the meaning of the name sam in the dream but you are probably right on with the connection..h after all was a silly monkee...others simply added the alien to it coining the new silly alien monkee...
Quote: LL, there are so many things I could write to you about the OW and possibility of a pa etc, but would any of it help? Probably not.
maybe...maybe not...I'd still be interested in your thoughts..
Quote: Did you go to the open house??/
naaaa!! I couldn't, I know despite the fact I say I'd just do it to intimidate her with the possiblity of my being me (she doens't know me) I'd be tempted to shove her in the pool and couldn't garuntee that I wouldn't. so best not to go.
Quote: LL, I read a little book called "Never be lied to again" which gives tips for when someone is lying or withholding info. I'm not proud of having read it, but I do feel somewhat empowered.
not something to be ashamed of...probably comes in very handy in this world of deception we live in...how accurate do you find the "clues"?
Quote: have you thought of asking ow about the extent of their R? I know it gives her power, it lets her know you don't trust what your H has said, there are countless reasons NOT to do that.
ow has denied...denied...denied...that anything happend...one of the last conversations I had with her...the one where she was supposedly complimenting my strength..." you're alot stronger than I am...it's one thing to repair a m after your h has had an affair...but to know your h is in love with someone else" well I said among other things...in reply...oh is that what he told you when he was kissing you..."no LL...he never kissed me..it wasn't like that...anyone can have a physical r...I know you'll never believe us" so you see...she denies could be that nothing happend...could be that she's protecting her love...could be he's telling the truth..could be he's protecting himself...her and me..I don't know...
Quote: BTW none of those letters etc scream out to me "PA"!!! Could all still be just the fantasy of "true love" high school style.
very very very high school...thing is it was h and I that were high school sweet hearts..well I was in high school he was a sophmore in college...ow and h met later in life...he was doing the landscaping for her and her h's home...
Quote:
I don't know, LL. I too would be a little suspicious of him getting rid of that stuff on his own. Why did he have it all locked away safe and sound until then?
the stuff was not current...it was good bye stuff...and it was put there around the time he was starting to come home...h claims he had forgotten about it...had put it there at a time that he was still confused...
I have no choice but to accept that he did get rid of the stuff...what else can I do..sneak off to his office again and search for it??? he did actually invite me to do so...whatever...gotta let it go.
Quote: I DO see really clear signs that your H DOES want YOU, has chosen YOU, is working hard in his own way to make your M work. I don't doubt any of that at all.
wish I were as confident about it as you see from there..
Quote: It just seems you are stuck on the details. So either you learn (at a gut/emotional level) to let it go, trust what he says, (probably the best way), or you gotta find out the truth.
the eternal stuggle...do I trust what h claims...sometimes I do and feel good about it...sometimes I don't. finding out the truth??? maybe I know the truth already? maybe I don't...there are only two people who know the whole story and either they've told it...or they're keeping it to themselves...
so there again it is...
believe h...get over my doubt...all is well believe h....it's a lie and there is more...be brought back to the pain and have more healing to do...crap. I don't know what to think and the question is getting old!!
Quoting shinybear: I too, feel your anguish which does seem to border on depression at times. Cognitive Behavoural therapy or meds are viable options. Why suffer more than you need to???
There is a book Reinventing your life by Jefferey Young and Janet Klosko that has been very highly regarded using cognitive approach combined with psycho-analysis techniques to help you overcome certain traps in your thoughts and beliefs that could hinder your "normal" life. I'll also give you a name of my therapist, who is also a guru in cognitive therapy in this area. You can give her a call to get some of her persepctives, or perhaps a referral of people near your town.
Quoting lostlove: finding out the truth??? maybe I know the truth already? maybe I don't...there are only two people who know the whole story and either they've told it...or they're keeping it to themselves...
I may be way off base here, so please take it for what it is worth. May I ask: why is the "truth" so important to you? To my understanding, you cannot change what happened in the past. Your H may have a PA, or he may not. Either way, you cannot change what happened.
So the question is knowing: why that made a difference to you? So if they had had PA, you would hate both your H and OW more?
Or you felt that you were excluded from full knowledge of what actually happened between your H and OW. Did you You feel insecure about it, and, more importantly, the closest bond of intimacy between you and your H was violated?
The way I see it, which you may not agree with, is that either way, you cannot change what has happened. What happened was a tragic even as a result of many forces: your H's poor judgment, your own deficiency at that time to interact favorably with the M, and bad luck. We all share some responsibilities in contributing to the fallout of the M.
So now, let me ask you: Do you still love and care for your H, the one you married to? Do you still want this M to work, not necessarily your way, but in a way fulfilling to both of you and your kiddos?
If the answers are yes, I don't think it is what happened between your H and OW that will dictate your M from this point on, but it is in your hand. You hold the power to heal the past by taking care of what you have now, giving your love and caring to your H and your kids, understanding that all of us made mistakes at one time or another, and each of us knows we had hurt people. We do feel guilty for it rather than enjoying it, no matter we apologize for these things or not. But deep down, if you believe that people are all well intentioned and loving, rather than born with desire to go out hurting other people, strangers or loved ones, you may feel better.
Or you can choose to dwell on the past with hatred and resentment, wondering what had happened, and that is likely to consume our good natured LL we know with sensitivity and a big heart.
Quoting lostlove: I know little about cbt...could you give a little input on how that would work in my sit???
It might help you get unstuck from a particular pattern. The book Chuck mentions several different sorts of patterns and how to get out of them. One of them is a feeling that abandonment is inevitable. I wonder if you feel like that at all?
Quoting lostlove: ow has denied...denied...denied...that anything happend...one of the last conversations I had with her...the one where she was supposedly complimenting my strength..." you're alot stronger than I am...it's one thing to repair a m after your h has had an affair...but to know your h is in love with someone else" well I said among other things...in reply...oh is that what he told you when he was kissing you..."no LL...he never kissed me..it wasn't like that...anyone can have a physical r...I know you'll never believe us" so you see...she denies could be that nothing happend...could be that she's protecting her love...could be he's telling the truth..could be he's protecting himself...her and me..I don't know...
LL, what she said was soooooo passive aggressive and evil. She was clearly trying to hurt you. And it sounds like she succeeded. But, ask yourself, which would have hurt you more? Her saying that they were deeply in love and had wild sex, or her saying only that they were deeply in love? My guess is that it is the first, that the PA would be worse for you. And, I bet she knows that. If she could have thrown that in your face, I'd bet big money that she would have. "Oh, LL, you are so strong and brave to take back your H not only after we had wild sex, but also after we fell so in love." GAG. I really think she would have said it if she could have. What an evil woman. Would she move already?
I hope when she does, it will help you move on too. In the meantime, something like CBT could help you change the stuff about yourself the keeps you stuck that doesn't have anything to do with H or evil OW.
Happy nice weather We missed your vivacious self at the Cape.
Quote: LL, what she said was soooooo passive aggressive and evil. She was clearly trying to hurt you. And it sounds like she succeeded. But, ask yourself, which would have hurt you more? Her saying that they were deeply in love and had wild sex, or her saying only that they were deeply in love? My guess is that it is the first, that the PA would be worse for you. And, I bet she knows that. If she could have thrown that in your face, I'd bet big money that she would have. "Oh, LL, you are so strong and brave to take back your H not only after we had wild sex, but also after we fell so in love." GAG. I really think she would have said it if she could have. What an evil woman. Would she move already?
hey acorn,
thanks for stopping by...yes I know she was trying to hurt me...infact that was part of my response to her as well "are you trying to hurt me?" "do you think "in love" really matters..inlove is the crap you go through to get to love...are you trying to make me feel like you felt when I told you despite the fact that my h was leaving me that I knew he still loved me??" she only served to make herself look stupid...she is looking for in love..the only reason I want my h to be "in love" with me is because it was a feeling he was looking for...after all I did get the infamous "love you not in love with you line" but you see as I have stated many times over as I stated to h in response to that statement "I'm not in love with you either..I just happen to love you and know that r's take work and I'm willing to do it"
she's pittiful..from day one she showed so..and only got more and more pitiful...her home is listed as available june 30th...who knows where she plans to go..hopefully far far away...never to be seen or heard from again. unless of course it's her obituary in 7-15 years (oh I know that's evil of me)
Quote: I hope when she does, it will help you move on too.
I think it will...as then there will no longer be the business tie between them...h is to continue the landscaping till they sell the house...doubt she'll be able to afford a nice home or landscaping when all is said and done with her divorce. hope she's happy when she gets what she deserves...I wonder though...why doesn't she hire a realtor..perhaps then she could wooo him in and then she wouldn't be alone...ah but wtf do I care what she does as long as my h is here with me.
Quote: We missed your vivacious self at the Cape.
vivacious??? I'll accept that...it's sounds much nicer than some other descriptions I've gotten!!
Quote: There is a book Reinventing your life by Jefferey Young and Janet Klosko that has been very highly regarded using cognitive approach combined with psycho-analysis techniques to help you overcome certain traps in your thoughts and beliefs that could hinder your "normal" life.
thanks, I'll look into them eventually. I did minor in counceling in college (despite the fact that I can't spell for crap I do have a bs) and took many a pshych course as electives so I have a basic understading of such things but a refresher would be helpful.
Quote: Or you felt that you were excluded from full knowledge of what actually happened between your H and OW. Did you You feel insecure about it, and, more importantly, the closest bond of intimacy between you and your H was violated?
honestly chuck...the friendship they shared is more sacred to me than if they had a roll in the hay...I'd just like to know...I don't like the idea of there being secrets kept by them...but I suppose in the end does it really matter?? it is not me that is being hurt by the secrets if there are any it is h that is hurting holding onto them...if he infact is.
Quote: So now, let me ask you: Do you still love and care for your H, the one you married to? Do you still want this M to work, not necessarily your way, but in a way fulfilling to both of you and your kiddos?
sure...I after all never did leave did I?? I was the one who wanted to work on the m...I wanted things to be better...I wanted to do things...grow together etc..h chose to pull away and have an a and leave...I am not doing much different than I did before h left...it is h who is different.
Quote: Or you can choose to dwell on the past with hatred and resentment, wondering what had happened, and that is likely to consume our good natured LL we know with sensitivity and a big heart.
I try to choose not to stay in the past..but it creeps in from time to time...there in lies needing to know the truth...if I knew the truth (and again I'll say maybe I do..maybe I question it because so many others can't believe it wasn't physical after all we do live in the world of sex and drugs and rock and roll but h has always been different like that I don't know) then I could move on and feel secure about my decision and where I stand with h...telling people nothing happend physcially between them and facing the doubt of others and sometimes myself makes it hard for me to move on..do I know what it is I'm moving on from??? I don't know...I want to believe h and most often I do..but then...well I don't.
Quote: our good natured LL we know with sensitivity and a big heart.
What you are going through is normal! You are truly an amazing person. I think that you will have an easier time once the OW moves far, far away. She will get what she deserves.
I am stopping by b/c you seem to have posted on Charcoal's thread and her H is in the "I need support" forum. He is frustrated and I thought you might be able to help him.
We missed your vivacious self at the Cape.