I picked the title of my thread because from reading on this board, I see the vets say how to focus on yourself, etc. Yet, my focus is still about the W and our marriage. I have done a lot about GAL, 180's etc. I think because we live together it makes it harder to detach. Also, I've taken actions to "make her fell loved" per advice of my DB coach. Per the 5LL my W is gift-giving.
My previous thread was titled, "W says she is working her way back to me" because this was one of several positive things she said about us and our relationship. I was way too enthusiastic and optimistic that this was a major turning point. I now realize it was a new equilibrium point in limbo-land. We went from where she was seriously considering separation and/or divorce to where she decided it is best to stay in marriage, but she is missing that “loving feeling” for me. She is not really doing anything to make the marriage better or to show love to me, all her focus is on herself.
We both work full-time and my MIL is with us for the next month to help with our kids. My W’s schedule after work is MTW – she goes to the gym. Friday is our ‘date night’ per my initiation so that we can do things together, and I can show her a good time. I told her last week that I wanted to make Thurs a family night where we actually eat dinner together as a family. My girls are starting to express feelings of mommy neglect since my W spends so little time with them. Our weekends are usually filled with various activities.
We keep busy – it’s part of her MLC change that is driving this, as well as my GAL activities.
Me, I go sailing every Wed after work with friends, and I go flying once a week. These help keep me grounded. I also go to the gym 3 times/week, during my lunch time.
Part of the limbo I’m living in is that my W is very unhappy with her career. She wants to return to school to be a Physician’s Assistant. This would entail her: quitting her job and moving 3-4 hours away from us for at least 1 year, maybe 2. Initially, I told her I supported her, whatever her decision. For awhile she was gung-ho pursuing this, and got all her transcripts and was working on the application. Last week, she had a talk with a friend and she realizes that what she really wants is to be a Medical Doctor, but that would take almost 12 years. She told me (in an email) that she could either go back to school for medicine and work her a$$ off, or stay where she is and distract herself with hobbies.
Yesterday, she was talking to another friend of hers who told her “go for it” with respect to pursuing a new career. My W has not worked on her application in about 2 weeks, so I think she is now on the fence about this. I don’t say/offer anything about this. The application deadline is Sept 1, and a lot can happen by then. I’m just going to let it play out.
So my W's latest thing is that she is going skydiving this Sunday. This is part of her MLC in my opinion. She is doing physical activiies for thrills.
I would like any opinions on how to handle what I see as a growing problem in my sitch. My W goes to the gym for jui jitsu 2 nights a week and then to crossfit 1 night a week. She is with mostly men, and she has worked hard and continues to work hard to build friendships with them. There is one guy that I know she is infatuated with, and initially at BD I thought she was having an EA and maybe a PA with him. It turns out that she wasn’t. Initially, I told her that I wanted her to stop contact with him. She did for a brief time, but then gradually did things to engage with him more and she lied to me about it. In fact, she has lied to me about anything to do with guy for awhile. I caught her in these lies (for example, she said she was going to kickboxing with mostly women, but she was really going to crossfit where these guys go).
About 2 months ago I backed off about this guy (a 180?) and just ignored it. If you read my previous thread, a few weeks ago we went somewhere and she saw his car out front and she freaked out and wanted to leave. Then just 3 days later, we went to a party he had in which he invited everyone from the gym. My W asked me to go with her, and we both had a great time.
In the past 2 weeks, I think my W is making efforts to increase opportunities to interact with him. Has it turned into an EA? I don’t think so. He’s busy, has a girlfriend, and my W is busy too. Their opportunities to meet are at the gym and afterwards. It is the afterwards that bothers me. My W sometimes comes home at 9:30 or 10:30 pm, when the gym is done at 8:30pm. They all go to a bar for drinks. BTW, she calls me to say that she is going to the bar – this is part of our agreement.
I think that while this is not a typical EA or PA, my W’s infatuation with this guy who she said she is greatly attracted to (but not in love) is in the way of her having or building these feelings for me. BTW, she expressed this in the opposite way to her friend as saying, “I like [SailingAlone] and he is a good husband and father, but because I don’t have these feelings for him, I’m attracted to other men.”
So my question, after a long intro, is what should I do about this? Currently, I’m not doing anything. I was thinking whether I should ask her again to stop all contact with him. The only problem is that I know she loves jui jitsu and this gym is the only place in the area she could go for this. The other option is to continue doing nothing about this particular aspect and let it die off? I worry that given the nature of the R it would take a long time to die off since they interact so little.
If you and your W have an agreement, then that boundary should have been one of those things. Back off from her. The guy IS an EA for her. He is the forbidden fruit that she knows she can't have, but likes pushing the envelope like a teenager. Problem is that it bothers you. Ignoring her might be best and start going out with other people also (not meaning women to hook up).
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
MrBond, thanks for the reply. Yes, I think you're right that he is the EA. Sometimes its easier to read other's situations and think what to do, whereas in your own there is uncertainty.
I might ignore the EA, but only after I made it clear (one time) that I felt it was inappropriate behavior in our M. It sounds like you have done that.
I would not ignore her. I would do my best to meet her needs and connect, without pursuing or smothering. In other words, only offer what she would accept. Ignoring W is too cold for me. That's not love, that's for when you're done.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
FY, thanks for the input. I tend to agree, and my DB coach had similar advice "to show my W that we can be exciting, and to work on being a couple instead of a mommy". I think my DB coach was dead-on. It is difficult to ignore that your W is pursuing other men -- for whatever reason.
Lately, I've been wondering if the MLC ever ends, or if we will simply go from one crisis to another.
My W is considering going back to college (4 hours away) to study to be a Physician's Assistant. Friday nite was our 'date night'. We went rock climbing (a new hobby for us), and afterwards we went to dinner. At dinner my W brought up going to school again. It will entail: (1) quitting her good paying job and (2) move almost 4 hours away.
My DB coach suggested that if the topic came up to ask leading questions. So I asked my W: (1) have you considered how we could financially afford this? (2) how often would you come back to visit us? (3) what does this mean for our relationship?
Well, the conversation didn't go well. With the financial question, my W's first response was sarcastic, she said "with money" and then after I asked again, she said 'we have enough in the bank, I didn't complain about you." Her returning to school would cost $60k/year, which is about what we have in the bank account. What she is not considering is that she would not be working and our income would drop by 40%.
A few months ago, when going to school came up, I told her to start saving. She has done the exact opposite. In May she spent $3k on clothes for herself alone. Last week, when I went on vacation to the beach with my 3 girls alone and she stayed home alone -- well she spent more money than us. She brought up when I did my PhD when we were first married. The difference is that we didn't have kids, and me going to school at the time had no effect on our standard of living. If she returns to school we will have a 40% cut in family income and a increase in expenses of supporting an apartment for her while she is at school.
She then said to the other questions that if she considers this, then going to school is terrible for all of us. She mainly spoke of "not being a mother to her girls." Nowhere did she mention me. She was becoming a little hysterical and tearing.
We left the restaurant, and we continued the conversation on the street corner. I then went to take her hand, both were in her pockets, and she wouldn't take mine. I said to her, "why won't you take my hand?" she responded that it was cold (not really). I said "BS" and then I told her I was asking about how her returning to school would affect our relationship because when she is like this I feel like she doesn't want to be with me. She didn't answer -- yes, big mistake, why I am asking this -- a major slip up. I said, "OK, let's go, and walked to the car ahead of her." We drove home in silence.
In the bathroom, she got ready for bed and jumped in bed. I then go ready for bed, got in, and said good night. She said nothing.
I didn't sleep well.
In the morning at 6am, she cuddled up against me and put her arm around me. We were like that for awhile, and then I said,
"I'm sorry that the questions I asked upset you. For me it is good to discuss these things. I do understand your position that if you consider the downside of going back to school, then you would never go. Last night you asked me what I thought .."
At this point, she interjects "no I didn't" (well, she did)
then she says, "what do you think?"
I said, "I think you should apply, in fact I think you should apply to other schools in S. CA too to improve your odds of being accepted."
We cuddled some more, then ML and have continued as if nothing has happened.
I find it curious that in public she was acting like she didn't want to be with me, but then we go home to bed together and she cuddles with me on her initiative.
I feel that home and especially our bedroom is a "safe" place for her and she feels OK assuming the role of loving W. I also wonder if this is her way of keeping me happy enough at home to stick around while she can pursue her outside life without me.
My sister has told me that while we were on vacation together (without my W), my oldest daughter of 12 years complained to her that we neglect her, that we don't spend time with her, etc. Not directly like that, but essentially she said we both spend a lot of time outside of the house, and when we are home we are not really there for them.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in this.
My question is whether it makes sense to discuss this with my W. When my sister first told me, I was still on vacation and emailed my W this. Included in my email was a suggestion that we eat together "as a family" at least once a week. My W agreed to this, but essentially ignored the crux of the message that our D feels ignored.
I'm think that I cannot control my W's relationship with our children, and that bring this up is a form of pressure or control that will drive her away. Also, I don't think it will change her behavior anyway.
