How is it SUPPOSED to work?

[grebjack]

I'm used to being able learn from my mistakes, and it eats at me that I don't know what I would do differently if I had it to do over again. I've now been separated for four of my eleven years of marriage. I have always wanted children and it's always been a non-negotiable "no" for my husband. I thought that was the sort of decision couples should make together, and I spent what I would call the seven good years of our marriage being bitter, but my husband been very clear with me before we got married. At one point I read a book called "I want a baby he doesn't" and the author's advice boiled down to "talk, talk, and then talk some more. whatever you do, don't stop talking," and that just made me more bitter, since talking about it wasn't among my options. In 2007, I went to a family counselor with the goal of either figuring out how to grieve motherhood once and for all a let it go, or give up being "wife" in favor of being "mother." So maybe that's what was supposed to be different - I was never supposed to entertain the thought of leaving, 'cause that's what I promised on our wedding day. But then how was I supposed to deal with my feelings? Just shut up about it?
The counselor told me I had to tell my husband what I was thinking. I didn't want to because I knew it would be an irrevocable change to our relationship, but I had to agree with her ethical argument that he had a right to know. So I told him. He told the counselor that he'd always wanted to talk with me about it but _I_ had refused, and then he withdrew. We never talked about it, although he told friends within my hearing that he wanted our marriage to survive and knew we'd work it out somehow. I don't know how we were supposed to work it out. The only way I know to solve problems is to talk them out, but I am clear now that by trying to force the conversation, I just put the nails in the coffin. So what was I supposed to do at that point? He started working longer and longer hours. Six months later he arranged to spend his summer at a lab a thousand miles away. Then he took a job two hours away from our house. And the one weekend he was home between summer and fall jobs, he invited friends from out of town to visit. For two years, our only contact was when I pursued. Except for one time when he came to town to bring me a Christmas tree, a particularly sweet gesture with a history for us, but he arrived at the house when I wasn't home and found a letter I had written to him - you know those things that you put in writing so that you won't say them and you never have any intention of sending them? He read it and left me a nasty note in return and hasn't come to the house to visit me since. And then a year and a half ago he told me he was tired of trying and needed to move on and that he was no longer open to saving the marriage, but he hasn't actually filed. I came here because I thought Divorce Busting was supposed to be a chance to save my marriage, but the advice I get on the boards is stop obsessing over your marriage and get a life. I have a life - I just feel like it's rolling down the tracks without any steering from me. Maybe this is just supposed to teach me that you don't always get what you want? I confess I have led an otherwise charmed life. I'm in great health, I have great friends and a supportive family, I am successful at a job I love, I have two sweet cats and a nice backyard garden, I'm financially stable... Maybe that's more than anyone has the right to ask for anyway. I read another post titled Time is on my side, and it made me wonder. Is this limbo actually accomplishing something? My father-in-law has been married to his second wife for 32 years, but hasn't had any contact with her for 30 and wouldn't know how to find her now if he wanted a divorce. I wonder if I'm following in his footsteps, and if so, what options do I have to avoid that? Obviously, I could file myself, but I don't want the damned divorce!
If you're still reading, thanks. I hope someone has some words of wisdom for me.

[~ kd ~]

GJ, I so hear your frustrations... if it were only so easy as red/blue pill... *sigh*

You want to know what else I think sometimes? That it doesn't freakin' matter what I do. I could have been all over my W with pursuing, or I could have stayed, or I could have confronted the OMs in very assertive ways, or I could have lambasted her enabling friends, etc, etc...

And it would still end the same...

You don't want the D? I get it. I don't either, but I'm so freakin' done... I just want it done... and all my W offered was an SA that was so lopsided, my L said she wouldn't represent me if I signed it...

And I can't freakin' afford to file D... uuuuggghhhh...!!!!!

So I get to follow my W's original, spoken intention of simply her living life, single... indefinitely...

Anyhow, what's my point here...?

right... patience...

or... after four years... heck, IMHO you're entitled to approach your H in any way and on any thing you want...

I'd put bets it won't change a thing... no matter what you do... then again, all I have is about $1.66 in change to bet with, so...

My lesson? I thought I had patience... guess I didn't realize what patient REALLY means...

[grebjack]

I wonder if you're right that it doesn't matter what I do. I'm a mathematician, so I tend to think that while I can't do anything to guarantee success, I can do things to give myself the best odds. Maybe that's just my denial so that I can let myself down slowly. But I know for sure there are things I can do to guarantee failure. And I'm pretty convinced there are things my husband could do to make our reconciliation a sure thing. So just in the name of symmetry, it seems like it SHOULD matter what I do. Assuming the goal is to save my marriage, I mean. A lot of the time, as I read these goals, I feel like that's Michele's selling point, but that's not really the goal of a lot of the people on the board. If I understand TrueGritter's posts, he has said repeatedly that a lot of marriages don't get saved, but if you DB successfully, you will come out of it a better person.

Anyway, I'm sorry you can't afford to file, if filing is what you really want. If you don't want the divorce, then I'm grateful for anything and everything that gets in the way of its finalization. I wish you well.

Thanks for reading my post.

[grebjack]

Why do some posts have the reply option and some not? I'm so confused.

[~ kd ~]

Never noticed that before, GJ... AFAIK there's always a reply, quote, quick reply, and quick quote... *shrug*

You are right, of course... there IS a perfect way to handle your sitch and come out on top...

The problem is Chaos Theory... sorry... there's no way you can read your H's mind and no way to know where on the matrix the universe currently exists...

And that's why we work on ourselves. Because the BEST chance, regardless of where we are on the matrix, is to grow and become the people our spouses would be fool to leave... and if they do... well... would you really want to be with a fool who wasn't prepared to grow with you?

What are some GAL activities and 180s you are doing or are planning to do? That's a good start...

[grebjack]

would you really want to be with a fool

uh, if that fool is my husband, the answer is yes.

What are some GAL activities and 180s you are doing or are planning to do? That's a good start...

I confess, this is a challenge for me. I don't really know what to work on. How do I know what to change if I like myself the way I am?

Kaffe Diem - question for you: if you no longer think you can reconcile your marriage, what is it that keeps you coming back to this site? I think that's the biggest thing I meant by How is it Supposed to work? Was I supposed to come here out of a desire to save my marriage, and then, in the name of saving my marriage, learn to do all the things that will allow me to lead a happy life after my marriage fails anyway? That seems to be the new goal for most of the people I read on the boards.

[grebjack]

What are some GAL activities and 180s you are doing or are planning to do? That's a good start...

For the most part, I continue to live as I lived when we were together. I've lost weight and started running since we split up - not because I like running but because I needed to set and achieve goals that were within my control. I've stopped traveling for vacation and to visit family and friends, which I miss a lot, but when he moved out I was left with a mortgage that consumed well over half of my income and now that I've gotten my financial house in order I am paying off debt. I've learned to do more of the repairs around the house (I was very proud when I replaced the clutch on my washing machine last winter). Those are the places where my daily life has changed. In the past week I've gone to a cider fest with a close friend from high school and her two little kids; I've gone to a birthday dinner for a work friend; I've gotten green beans at a local farm and pickled them; I've worked on a Habitat house; and today after church I'm helping to decorate the sanctuary. I don't think I have time to get more of a life than I already have. I guess the one big thing I'd really like to do and feel like I can't is move back to Chicago. I moved here because my husband got a job, and he's still here, not to mention that I am underwater on my house in a buyers market, so I don't think I'm really free to move until I pay down a lot more of the principal on the mortgage.

[~ kd ~]

I'll respond to the other stuff a little later, but felt this one is important to respond to, right now. It might give an overview of my thoughts...

I will openly admit that what I post may or may not be helpful. I certainly hope that you can find your meaning in it that will help you. It's filled with metaphors and personal thoughts and opinions that aren't necessarily cogent and may not apply to you...

Kaffe Diem - question for you: if you no longer think you can reconcile your marriage,

I'll start with saying that I liked myself BEFORE I got married. I am very sure I WAS the person I am meant to be. And that person was meant to marry my wife.

Life is a(n ever changing) perspective and my current perspective is, I am not meant to reconcile my marriage. For me, this is HUGE, because I'm a fixer. And I'm freakin' good at it... If I am to take away a life lesson from this, then it is to truly understand that some things aren't meant to be fixed by me. They're only "broken" because I think they are...

TomAto / TOmato...

I have a tendency to take on a challenge and not let go of it until there is resolution. My biggest challenge is letting go. In many ways, I felt 100% responsible for making my M work. I chose in and therefore it was my "job" to make it work. In my world, "failure" is NOT an option... so I found myself here...

And I can say that I truly loved my W. I loved my family... and I still do... And I suppose what I've learned, or perhaps more accurately learned to better appreciate is, if you love something, set it free...

I had my reasons for getting M which included the act of getting M and also in starting a family and raising kids. And I accomplished that. I didn't have any "plan" BEYOND those things...

And I have to face reality... I didn't really expect the M to last. I had misgivings from day one. I knew my W wasn't really "into it"... she had openly indicated that she never had planned on being M, that she didn't believe it was for her... she often stated that the only reason she had a second child was because I wanted a biological child of my own. She said this even before we conceived. And her behaviour was very often domineering and narcissistic (which are things that most people can be ascribed as, at any given time). And to be perfectly honest with myself, I may have been more in love with the IDEA... maybe more than I was in love with the person... that's sad and hugely selfish of me...

Did she have a choice? Sure... but was she fully committed to that choice? I don't think so... I really don't... so really, her decision to move on without me should not have been a surprise... She may have felt she DIDN'T really have a choice in the M... to BE M and fully committed to it...

So now... I give her that choice...

If our M is to be reconciled... it will be up to her... that is the "right" thing...

what is it that keeps you coming back to this site? I think that's the biggest thing I meant by How is it Supposed to work?

I came here for emotional support. The kind that many people who stand for their M don't often get in the "real world". Where we often find the real world often isn't generally M friendly when all the cards are laid on the table...

So I remain here to offer support to those who, like me, continue to stand for their M... to give back to the community that helped me emotionally survive this trauma...

That's my END reason, and for others, their reasons may be different.

It's not to say I don't / didn't have things to work on myself, to grow personally... I believe that most of my growth has been to return back to the person I WAS... I didn't necessarily become someone different... just that I lost perspective...

Was I supposed to come here out of a desire to save my marriage, and then, in the name of saving my marriage, learn to do all the things that will allow me to lead a happy life after my marriage fails anyway? That seems to be the new goal for most of the people I read on the boards.

Douglas Adams told us the answer is "42"...

And what is likely the most important thing that any one of us will ever consider... "What is the question?"

There can be no answer unless we are very clear on the question. And understand that the question is only momentary.

How is it supposed to work? I truly believe the answer to that question first begins with getting rid of "How"...

IS it supposed to work? That answer can only be found in time... and time is perspective... perception... the question and subsequent answers determined only by us and the culmination of information obtained and retained...

Who are you? Right now, what do you believe your purpose is? If your world / environment consisted of JUST YOU, what would you be doing? How would you do it?

I can... I HAVE... accepted that my M will end, regardless of what I do... how "perfect" I am or how "right" I do things or what "my intention" is...

IF we weren't in our situations... life WOULD be an adventure of finding ourselves and our life's purpose and following our paths and being happy doing so...

We live our lives fighting for what we want... it is up to us to decide what we are fighting for... and perhaps to really understand why... WHY is it so important to us...?

Those WHY's are found in our fears...

What are your fears?

[grebjack]

Wow, thank you for that rich, thoughtful answer.

I will openly admit that what I post may or may not be helpful. I certainly hope that you can find your meaning in it that will help you.

Thanks. I promise to take what I can from your writing without assuming that it is the infallible wisdom for my situation. I am grateful that you take the time to respond.

I didn't really expect the M to last. I had misgivings from day one. I knew my W wasn't really "into it"...

That's intriguing. My husband also says that he didn't really expect the marriage to last. That he was always "waiting for the other shoe to drop." I have no idea why, though. I'm sure he would NOT say that I wasn't "into it."

Who are you? Right now, what do you believe your purpose is? If your world / environment consisted of JUST YOU, what would you be doing? How would you do it?

My purpose is obvious to me. I'm a teacher. I teach math to low-income urban kids who don't think they're good at this and know that the society around them is ready to give up on them, too. The more wounded and angry the better. My job is to pull them back from the brink and convince them that they have more in them than they know. I can't catch them all, but amazingly, at my school, we reach them more often than not. Everything I value about myself, everything I value about humanity, is about how we are in community. If the world consisted of just me - no students, no friends, no hugs, no compatriots - I'd be swallowing a bottle of tylenol. Although given that I don't know how to synthesize tylenol, I don't even know how I'd do that. I don't know what it means to be human without being part of society.

What are your fears?

I fear Alzheimers. I fear violence. I have those sort of normal self-preservationist instincts, I think. I have a deep-seated fear of incompetence and of being found out as an incompetent. I fear having a coaching meeting in which I am not able to give my colleague useful advice. I read a recommendation a colleague wrote for me a couple weeks ago and couldn't help thinking, "oh, no, what is he going to think of me when he figures out I'm not actually this good?" I kinda like that fear - I think it drives me to keep getting better. And since experiencing the pain of a failed marriage, I fear that this pain will never go away, almost as much as on good days I fear that once the pain is fully gone there will nothing left where my marriage once was.

What do I do with that?

[~ kd ~]

What's your chicken exit? What you DO when the questions are tough and you want to avoid the answers?

Some people project, others misdirect or change the subject, some people use humour and others attack... Generally, people use many different exits... but often, we have prominent exits...

When we use our chicken exits, that's where we know there are things that we need to look at.

If your M failed, you see yourself as incompetent? If you are so smart, how could you have not known your H was unhappy? Why did you M him in the first place since you should have known he would leave you?

As you mention, your fear of incompetence shows up in other places in your life, such as your work. Where else does it show up, such as personal relationships or spirituality or healthy lifestyles? Why bother doing something if you are only going to fail because... you aren't smart enough...

If your M fails, you will have an empty spot in your life? Spikes loudly on the abandonment scale... where else do you have empty spots in your life? Who has abandoned you in your past? Is it possible... that you have abandoned yourself? That you've "given up" on yourself to live a life of scarcity, because you'd rather not make room in your life because it would be empty...? That you're not worthy of having love...?

You teach for many reasons... sounds like you fulfill two prominent values you hold dear... first... your students find out that you ARE smart and competent... and second, they fill your need to feel needed... they fill those empty spots in your life...

I could be wrong, but that's how it appears to me. Imagine if others are also seeing that in you? In what way might your focus on teaching be interfering with your ability to connect to others in your personal life... your family... your H...?

What would happen to you if you made mistakes?

What would happen to you if you had time alone?