GALing and Boundaries with XH

[25yearsmlc]

you want him there, HE wants to be there...

the cat belonged to both of you so...it's a no brainer. You two will handle this together.

Be careful with your heart...and I'm sorry for your loss.


((( )))

[seeking answers]

Antonia,

I'm so sorry for the loss of your beloved kitty.

You both loved him and I personally think both of you there to say your final goodbyes is the right way to go.

(((Hugs)))

[Twink]

Antonia,

I, too, am so sorry for your loss, and these difficult few days.

You know, sharing this with your XH may very well set you back a bit -- it did me -- but not for long. You will bounce right back, but with the knowledge that you did the right thing to give him the choice. No regrets -- that is always huge for me, and I'm happy to weather a small setback for that kind kind of peace.

((Antonia))

[AntoniaB]

Today was a very strange day. Surreal. Going to be a VERY VERY long post, but there's a lot of talk from the XH in here that is probably interesting to most.

XH brought our cat and we had a funeral. When he got here we hugged a very long time standing in the front yard. He was visibly distraught, many times seeming worse than me. He kept saying he abandoned him, it wasn't his cat anymore, and he had no right to be here. At some point he was so upset that I took his hands and said "we have forgiven you. You have every right to be here. Have you forgiven yourself?" He said "I don't know."

We made this area under my bedroom window for the grave. This cat was my only boy cat and he slept where my XH did every night since XH left. Often he'd "spoon" me. I figured that I'd have him closest to me outside the window by my bed. It was a very tearful funeral of course. It took about an hour. I read a piece from Pema Chodron about how when we are suffering it is the way to learn more about ourselves and to try to relax with not knowing what the future holds, and that the moment of groundlessness we feel with illness and death is the place where we learn how to find our compassion for others.

It was heartbreaking but I felt really good about what we did. Unlike the past where I always stood and he did all the work, we worked together on the grave and put paper and mulch down, and we planted a camellia shrub by the marker, which was a paw print. I was able to get these this morning and have them ready.
It felt "right."

After I told him he could wash his hands, and he came in the house again. (the rest of this post will be the MLC/divorce related stuff).

He walked all through the house and looked at everything pretty intently. He picked up all the cats and held them a long time. It's been 7 months since he was there and he was really worried they wouldn't remember him, but delighted when they did. I will say they took a little time to figure him out, though. I felt bad when they hesitated.

I said "you can sit down if you want or whatever..." and he said "I'll sit down."

So we started small talk, and he was himself, like, the guy I "remember." I knew I was going to end up talking about "us." I just knew it. Part of me realized that this might be the only time I see him in a long while...if ever...and I had said earlier that I lacked closure on so many things, and at least I wanted closure on the poor kitty.

Well I got some measure of closure on the marriage.

We had an hour and a half talk. I "came clean" and offered a lot of regret and apologies for not being the person he needed when he went into his crisis initially. I said I had such regrets that I treated him the way my parents treated me, which was to act like he was deficient or weak when he didn't fit my mold of perfection, and that I should have not been who I was when he needed me. But I also said I feel like I've come to understand that my actions could never have been otherwise as I didn't know any better, and I felt threatened that I'd lose him, so I tried to control him to keep him. I said I was not this person anymore and I said I understood why he wasn't in love with that girl. I didn't love her either.

So he said "and you would never have become who you are now without the marriage ending, so you can't have it both ways."

There were a ton of things said, not fighting, just explaining mostly, both ways...but I will just highlight the striking things.

He said he spends all his time exercising because "I have to stay young." "Don't want to get old. Afraid of getting/looking old." I said "I don't mind being in my 40s at all". He said "he wasn't going to look like he was old." I noted that he wasn't fooling anyone shaving his goatee so close to not show the gray, and he said "no there's only 2 gray hairs in there" and I said NO WAY. I mean, I should know. The close shave is only since OW.

That was the one big MLC thing.

Other than that, I said that I wasn't even angry anymore about the few weeks he was with OW before he left. He said "look, in comparison to others, I did minimal damage...I had an emotional affair and I kissed a girl and that was it and I left. Other people do a lot worse." I said "but you were sharing your innermost thoughts with someone other than your spouse while lying to me. That's a big deal."

He said, "and you just admitted to me that you were not receptive to helping me at the time I shared myself with her."

Well he got me there.

I said "I'm not even that bothered by the few weeks of scattered talk with her at public events prior to your leaving. I'm bothered by the gloating that seemed to take place on FB after, when you hadn't filed for divorce yet. You paraded her everywhere....and that really hurt me and embarrassed me and it was just mean."

At first he was defensive. Eventually he said that he was sorry for the disrespect and that he was "irrational" at the time.

He told me that the mutual friends I no longer have feel betrayed BY ME, that when I chose to cut off the one guy because he wouldnt' exclude the OW from that trip, that the guy said "if she would turn on me for one difference of opinion, then SHE betrayed ME." And I guess the rest of that group fell into place.

I said can you not understand my p.o.v. He said he could, but that I was expecting too much from a group of guys who have little care about women or experience with them, that they just wouldn't get my view. (bottom line I couldnt' be friends with them now anyway as they spend time with him and OW regularly...they are the ones who are allergic and he wont' get a cat because of them...yet they live 3 1/2 hours away!)

I said, "why didnt' you give me a chance?"

He said, "I did. I went to counseling alone. You told me to stop going when it made you insecure that I might leave."

I said "I know." THIS WAS THE SINGLE BIGGEST MISTAKE I EVER MADE AND I MADE IT OUT OF FEAR. I didn't know any better...

He said, "Maybe I should have given you another chance. But I didn't. I could have told you I wanted a divorce, but that would destroy you and I'd be the bad guy, so I'd also have nothing. So I waited, said it was all ok. Then OW came along. And I saw another path. And I took it. And I sacrificed you to save myself. I put myself before you."

I said "If you had it to do over, would you betray me again, or would you have told me before you betrayed me?" He said, "knowing that the life that I have now is mine, I would have betrayed you again."

He said that his view of our marriage was that we were two people who needed to grow up, needed to learn to be independent, and we were never going to do it together because we fought each other...and that I had to live alone in order to learn how to be independent and make changes for the better, and that he had to MEET OW to learn to be independent and make his changes. That we were on different paths to the same thing.

I said, has it ever crossed your mind that we had to learn the same things to make the marriage work, had to separate to make the changes, and now, if those changes are real, that we are NOT together, and yet we now have the tools to make the marriage work?

He said, "yes." I said "that's tragic." He said, "no, it's ironic, not necessarily tragic."

He said, "if someone waved a magic wand and put us back together in this house, we'd revert in no time."

I said, "well then the changes aren't real, are they?"

He said, "for you they might be, but for me, I've still got a lot to work on. I have issues."

I said, "What issues?" He said, "Issues of balance."

Then I was like, just going for it all. I figured, I feel it.It's the last time I'm seeing him.

I said, "You are in my head. All the time. I'm not IN LOVE with you, but I love you. I can't get rid of you. I just think of you. You're a presence so often, and only when I am really engaged do I forget you. And being out of contact doesn't make a difference. What is the point of this? What is the point of one person having all this going on when the other person is not?"

And he said, "look. You're in my head all the time. I can't get rid of you either. You are the filter in my head. I filter so many things "through" you, what you'd think about this or that. Sometimes you're a good filter, sometimes you're a bad filter."

I said "How can you be in a relationship with someone if I'm in your head, because I don't feel like I can pull that off, and I want a relationship but don't see how I can do it."

He said, "it's really hard. That's what I mean. I know I have problems with balance. And conflict. Conflict between you being in my head and her. There are times it's really difficult. But I'm working on it. Look. That's why even my being here...it's a conflict. I needed to be here. But OW is really uncomfortable with this. She told me not to linger, and I already broke that promise. I can't come here when I have a girlfriend and talk to my ex-wife about how she is in my thoughts."

I said "well did she not understand, you're here for the cat. Is she insecure? Why is SHE insecure?"

He said, "yes she understood it was about the cat that's why she didn't forbid me to come. But she didn't want me to linger. We're ALL insecure.. All of us on the planet."

I said, "have you ever cried for me?" He said "YES. Why do you want to know this. How does it make you feel better?"

I said "because then I would not feel like the only one. I would feel like at least you had the same struggles."

He said "I do. But that's life. I made my choice."

I said, "I think that I will always love you."

He said, "and I think that I will always love you. You were one of the great loves of my life. And she is the next and maybe there will be more. Who knows."

I said, "do you miss me?" And he said, "in what way?" I said, "I miss my best friend more than anything else by far."

And he broke down and cried, and held my hands and said "I miss my best friend too."

I said, "and this is where we are. We will always love one another, and we miss our best friend, and we can't do anything about it." And he said, "no, we can't. We can't be connected."

And I said "and don't you think this is terrible?"

And he said "it just is. There is nothing that can be done. I don't think I should come here anymore. I think I needed to come for the cat, and I'm very thankful you let me. I appreciate it. It meant a lot to me. I think I also needed this...for me. I needed closure with you too. I haven't had closure. I need it."

I said, "what if we can't eradicate each other from here" (the heart). He said "maybe we can't, ever."

I said, "so we are in each other's minds and heart in some way, for the rest of our lives, and we always love each other, and we are best friends, and we can't have any connection." And he said "I don't think we can. I don't think it can work. Do you?"

And I said, "No."

And we just clung and hugged and just....and I said "so this is goodbye?" and he said "yes it is."

And I said, "maybe in another lifetime, we will meet again.." and he said "It already is another lifetime from before."

He said "I have to go...I am so late and I broke a promise."

I said, "Tell her I said thank you."

Then he said "call me if you have an emergency or not, I don't know, I mean, if something bad happens, one of the older cats, or maybe it's not a good idea...I don't know. Maybe we should never talk again."

I said, "my greatest fear is that in 5 years, your relationship will end, and you'll come back, and I'll be with someone. And the timing won't be right again."

He said, "you'll be with a wealthy, muscular, good looking smart man and I'll be in a wheelchair, penniless."

Crying yet?? It was cathartic and revealing and awful and beautiful. Such is life.

Never would have transpired without the death of our poor beloved boy.

Where on earth do I go from here? What I see are two people with a significant problem of attachment who can't be together.

Even if OW was out of the picture, his world and my world no longer intersect. We don't want the same things anymore.

Why does the attachment persist? What do I do about it?

[Queen_of_Swords]

Antonia, reading your account made me cry.
Partially because of your continuing pain, your always connection to your X and the fatalism he expressed.

The other part is sheer fear that I will end up with much the same in the end.

[AntoniaB]

Q of S, thanks for posting, and I don't know whether to say I hope you do end up with this or not. If we have a choice between a mean and spiteful ex and this type, which is better? The mean and spiteful one you could probably detach from. But this type, it's impossible. I don't think this is a "have my cake and eat it too" situation anymore in that he is TRYING to make the boundaries. He says we shouldn't contact at all...EVER AGAIN. Then he says "if there is an emergency." He went back and forth 3 times on the 2 oldest cats who were close to him saying "well, if they are dying, let me know." Then saying, "but no...because THIS will happen again if I come back."

THIS means the emotional sort of breakdown we had, saying all this stuff. And yes I know I triggered EVERY BIT of it. But he just responded to everything, and later said he "needed" this chance to talk. I was ready for him to say NO to all my questions, no I don't love you, NO I never cry for you, NO I don't think of you much.

I wasn't ready for what I got. I felt simultaneously gratified and saddened by it all.

I do not know how to let go of him. How long has it taken some of you here to let go of your spouse emotionally?

He said "it's better if we never talk again so you can pretend I don't exist." I think that he might have also meant "so he can pretend I don't exist..."

And yet in the midst of all that, there was the "if I had it to do over, knowing that I got my new condo and new friends and new girlfriend, then yes, I'd betray you AGAIN."

What should I take/learn from this exchange? Anything?

[beatrice]

Antonia, even though my spouse was mean, I still loved who he had been. And I always will, but he is fading from my head. Honestly when i was at the stage you were at, in time terms, I could not get him out of my head. Now I think about him occasionally, perhaps a day goes by and I don't think of him at all, other days i might think quite a lot about something. It is no longer obsessive, but I would say that it was for quite a while, even though I didn't want it to be.

We built our lives on and around that other person. how could we detach easily if it was real?

The two best books for me have been The Journey from Abandonment to Healing and Louis Hay 'You can heal your life' in actually changing my mind set. It is like reprogramming rubber - it keeps springing back, but gradually you succeed.

I think we need to accept that their being in our heads is normal, and that as we work on ourselves, and time passes, they fade into pleasant memories.

I think it is interesting how controlling OW is, and how accepting your xh is of this control.

You said a lot of things that you needed to say, and I get the sense that you felt you were heard, which is important.

This has been a great gift to you both, and will enable you both to continue with your journey, wherever it is taking you.

[seeking answers]

Antonia,

IMO, I believe your H is still deep within the tunnel. His obvious confusion being the biggest indicator. His FEAR of seeing you, your home, the animals, is because he doesn't know how to handle the emotions that arise. I believe, although I have no confirmation, is why my H avoids me and my home.

It's probably very hard for your XH to process it all just thinking about it. Seeing it was possibly a sensory overload. I believe that it is at least part of the reason they try to forget that we even exist.

Your XH saying he would betray you again, to me, says that he's still blaming you to justify his choices.

I picked up on the controlling ow, also. There is no independence for him there. She's got him on a tight leash. I believe as he makes his way through that he may come to resent that control. Your XH saying that maybe there would be more loves shows the cracks already. Saying he'd broke his promise to ow because 'he lingered' was his fear of her and possibly the argument that followed.

Antonia, I'm glad you had the chance for that kind of talk. Very revealing on many levels. Thank you for sharing with us. I agree with Beatrice that it was a gift for both of you even amidst your sorrow. (((A)))

[AJM]

Agreed. He does seem to be blaming you and really enjoyed the part (logically) where you took blame. I suspect he knows that even if you did do that, it was in response to the environmental factors. It was never intended to be in anger and you *could* have learned differently.

His leaving was not your fault is what I'm after. Your mistakes did not drive him away. I read that and I thought, what? You needed her for like a few days, she wasn't available, and you left for somebody else?

I am loosely exaggerating, but I suspect he is not playing with a full deck on this one. And seems to know it.

I don't for a second by the BS that it wouldn't work. Easy to see he is not "happy" but rather he is controlled and not having to make decisions on his own. That is not healthy if you ask me.

I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm also glad you are getting some perspective.

One thing that stood out is that he seemed to want you to call him, but is likely worried about the pain and the OW finding out (as if that makes sense). He is very confused/conflicted. I feel for you both.

AJ

[AntoniaB]

Thanks Beatrice, seeking, and AJ. Your posts were insightful and I'm glad for other "eyes" reading what transpired.

I feel very strongly suddenly that I can't live in my house. I am hoping that that is a reaction to seeing XH for so long here...and just a temporary thing.

I feel like I am reliving the first week after he left, with less intensity this time. I have resisted my parents' offer to go visit them, as that is what I did (rather I escaped for a week) to their home in June 2010 when XH dropped the bomb. I have a lot of stored memories of the "flight north" and the way I felt there as I was in constant panic attacks. I think if I go there now, under this stress, it will awaken more memories. So my mom came to stay with me til Friday. I know I'd be ok without her, but it's nice to have her here.

I feel like I need to "sweep my house" for reminders again...and I just spent 2 hours with her taking about 1/3 of my clothes out of a closet that I hadn't really opened SINCE HE LEFT and getting rid of them to give away. I completely lost it when I came across my honeymoon negligee/robe. I don't think I'd have had any reaction days ago.

But it's like there were things I left undone that I feel like I have to do now. Maybe I left them undone as I was seeing things "on hold." I HOPE that this means I am coming to more of an acceptance that things are truly finally over. I think that for me, with the attachment issues I have, I have GOT to end the hope that he will see the light and come back. I don't think living in hope, however small, that he will reconcile, is working for me anymore. I think some people can "move on" and keep that hope alive in a corner of their heart. I can't. I attach WAY too much feeling and emotion to that hope so that it blocks me from moving on emotionally.

This is likely the reason I've been afraid of just putting myself out there fully to date, or why I've been sending mixed signals.

People say "you'll be ready when you're ready to move on." For me, I think I've really been clinging to NOT wanting to move on, to pretend on the surface I have, but harboring deep inside that I have not.

I know I can't just eradicate my feelings for him. But I can make the choice to eradicate hope he'll return--or to at least stop putting so much mental emphasis on it.

As long as I hope he will return, I can't budge from this place.

One thing that really hit hard today was that this is the first time in my entire life that there is no masculine presence in my home. My boy cat was the last "masculine presence" as I really made him a substitute for my XH. I talked to him all the time even before XH left, but when XH left, I would say things like "we're going to get through this together" or "no matter what you'll help me make it." I spoke to him like he was a partner of sorts. He slept next to me every night, on the pillow with a blanket. He spooned me sometimes. He walked next to me all the time, sat next to me. We were inseparable. I made him fill the void XH left as much as I could. That sounds nuts, but I know a person not on the board in divorce woes doing this with her son. It lessens the pain of them not being there. In fact, when XH first left, this was the cat I took with me to my parents to be a calming presence till I stopped being suicidal.

To have him just die like that is like losing the security blanket I had constructed. Had I not had this cat, I do not know if I'd been able to live alone for the past 17 months. I really don't know. He got me through many sleepless nights.

I feel like my skin is stripped bare. This house has only females in it. I have always seen males as protectors. To have no protection but me is just a shock to the system. I literally felt that this little boy cat was my protector of sorts.

My father and brother are 2 1/2 hours away. I have male friends...who are married. I have male friends, single, who live far away. I feel naked and very vulnerable.

I know it's crazy...it was just a little 8.2 pound cat. But the "maleness" was just comforting.

I had 3 male protectors here...and 8 female protectors. First XH left, then the outdoor male cat (13 years old) who protected my yard, then this cat (14 years old) who protected my home. It's just the girls now.

What's crazy is that everything seems to "fit". I don't think I'd have made it through the worst without this cat. But I don't think I'd ever have budged from this spot if I hadn't lost him now. And I didn't budge yet, really, but the path has a light now, so to speak. This cat had a lymphoma and chronic renal disease only discovered yesterday. He had a sudden perforation and peritonitis and the straining killed him within hours. He had scattered symptoms in retrospect, but nothing that would EVER make a person take him to a vet to be checked out. He held it ALL together for SO long that this was in him; he woke me up that morning with meows and standing on my chest, and he ran to get his breakfast. NO SIGNS till it was 12 hours from the end.

I am sorry for rambling...just a lot of confusion and emotions. I have such an urge to get a boy dog ;-)