My biggest contribution to the failure of our M was my quick temper with the kids and her when stressful situations arose. So my main 180 has been to identify the reasons for my actions and get rid of them. That has been fantastic, my relationship with my kids has never been better. So why do I still feel empty inside?
Step back in time. . . How long was your family walking on eggshells waiting for the next angry outburst? I am glad that you too have found (I am still having issues with this myself) a path that allows you to enjoy your children.
Empty. . . Because you understand all of the things that you have done in the past to find yourself here. You are also willing and have changed you for the better. AND This is just my opinion based on my experience: Your wife has been trying to get you to see this for quite some time. Her being done is a process that has been going on for a while. She has reached the end of that journey in her eyes. She is done.
This was the dynamic in my M. W was trying to show, tell, beg, anything to let me see how the M wasn't working for her. I thought we had issues but nothing that big. I was wrong.
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I was in a Catch 22, I would not have bettered myself if I stayed in the house but since I moved out the chance or opportunity for me to go back home dramatically dropped. How will she see that I can handle the everyday antics of being a family man if I am not in the picture everyday?
I think I can see where you are coming from with this. The time apart allowed you to focus on you and your half of the M breakdown. See where you needed to change and have done so.
For her she nows feels safe and is no longer walking on eggshells. Time is what it will take for her toe SEE your changes. Your kids will talk about what they did with you. I would not encourage them to provide information to you W. She will be able to piece that together from what information they share during your visits with them.
I also have to add that trying to let go of the outcome of your sitch would allow this to be a little easier. Focus your energies on what you control. YOU
I also wanted to add a disclaimer: I have not read all of you previous posts. I am working on the assumption that there is no other man involve. That you W has walked away. The advice would be different if that was the case, from me at least.
Will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
You are spot on with my sitch. No OM and huge wall built up around her.
Friday we talked on phone during work and the conversation turned to the R. I talked about where we were at and where we are headed. She asked about how I am with and without the kids. I answered truthfully and asked her how she is? She said that it sounds selfish but she enjoys the time off from the kids. That when I have them she gets a break and gets to do what she wants.
During the R talk she mentioned that she doesn't have a answer yet because she is scared of making the wrong decision. She says that when we are all together she thinks its good because we are with the kids. She doesn't know if it would be the same if it was just two of us.
She got busy at work and I tried to end the conversation but she said she wanted to talk more. She sent me an e mail saying she wants to talk face to face maybe later this week.
I confused on how the convo should go. I don't know how much longer I can go in this limbo but I don't want to say anything that will push her in the wrong direction. Any advice?
I would suggest that you continue not initiating any R talk. When she is ready she will do so. When she does it is a test to see if the "old" you is in there somewhere. The biggest thing that you need to remember is to listen. Really listen, then validate those feelings/thoughts that she is sharing. She is giving you a window into how she is feeling/thinking, right now.
This part is where you are relearning her. Right now you need to discard the thoughts of understanding her moods, emotions, and thoughts. (all mind reading activities) Focus on her behavior. How does she act when the new and improved YOU is around. Are you looking your best and putting into practice all of the things that you have learned about since the day she said she didn't want you in her life anymore?
You need to know that deep down you will be okay either way. (D or not) These changes truly are for you. If you just change for her she will see through that. I think that if your W was truly done you would be seeing/hearing nothing. You wouldn't even exisit at all, with the exception as someone to see when doing child exchanges.
Listen, listen, listen.
Will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
There are many good books about meeting your spouses needs, speaking their language, etc. Find the one(s) that most speaks to you and read them. All of them if you think it helps, but remember she is looking to SEE your changes.
The line I remember saying to my W was: "I understand that I have said this before, but this time I truly get it. I know that you need to see my actions and not just hear the words. My words have no real value anymore."
Will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
I agree about not bringing up the R talk but let me run a few things by you. 1) Last time we did talk about the R, the W kept asking me open ended ?'s about how I was doing "How have things been going with you when you don't have the kids"? and "Don't you think things have been better since you moved out?". I find it difficult to try and listen/validate her and not just talk myself up.
2) Had kids this weekend and when I took them home on sunday the kids wanted to show me stuff outside. I started playing with them and W joined in and it evolved into all of us hanging out for like a hour and a half. I have mentioned that we go out every Tuesday and have excellent time, with what happened yesterday I am wondering if I need try an initiate more family and or personal time with the W? I don't want to chase or push her and I understand that I could just be grasping at crumbs but one of our biggest problems was my interaction as a family?
1) Last time we did talk about the R, the W kept asking me open ended ?'s about how I was doing "How have things been going with you when you don't have the kids"? and "Don't you think things have been better since you moved out?". I find it difficult to try and listen/validate her and not just talk myself up.
To me those questions are about the "new" dynamic and how the relationship is now. Those questions are not about your M. Those questions are about a D lifestyle.
Truth dart answers: I miss my kids and think that we can work through our issues to have a better M. Our children deserve to have an intact family.
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2) Had kids this weekend and when I took them home on sunday the kids wanted to show me stuff outside. I started playing with them and W joined in and it evolved into all of us hanging out for like a hour and a half. I have mentioned that we go out every Tuesday and have excellent time, with what happened yesterday I am wondering if I need try an initiate more family and or personal time with the W? I don't want to chase or push her and I understand that I could just be grasping at crumbs but one of our biggest problems was my interaction as a family?
My question to you would be: Is she more of a friend in this sitch? Playing with the kids. I'm thinking playdate type stuff.
So when you went over to drop the kids off, how did you look/act? She is watching you to see that these changes you are making are for real. It took time to get here it will take time to get back.
Initiating more time together falls into the category of pursuing. Make use of the time that you have together to show her the changes.
You are still holding onto the outcome/goal of. . .staying M. IMHO you need to let go of that outcome. That decision is not in your control. YOU can control YOU and YOU alone.
"I am making these changes for me and my kids. I can't make someone else choose M over D. I can only control MY actions."
When I hit that point of knowing that I would be okay either way (still had a preference) then I felt like I had more control. It only felt that way because I realized that I was trying to control her, a place where I had no control. When I let go of trying to control her actions/thoughts I had full control of MY choices.
What books have you read about R/M?
Will
"The first step in the acquisition of wisdom is silence, the second listening, the third memory, the fourth practice, the fifth teaching others." Solomon Ibn Gabriol
Congrats on striving to overcome angry out-bursts.
My take on things is that your W is enjoying the sense of freedom and at the same time...she's seeing you at your best. However, it has been a very short time and she is not convinced that those changes will stick. It takes some time to instill new life changes. It's like having to diet b/c of health reasons. Almost anyone can stay on a diet for a short time, but when you think about doing it from now on....it ceases to be a diet and becomes a new eating behavior.
She could be seeing a certain amount of eagerness, hope, expectations when you are together. That is why she suddenly seems cold. She doesn't want you to get your hopes up and think everything is honky-dorey. If the two of you went back together right now, it would be very easy to fall back into those old habits. It's not that hard to change, but it is hard to stay changed.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
When we started dating and up until about 5 years ago I was a very outward, positive person. The life of the party, able to meet strangers at ease and always quick with a joke. I started to change for several different reasons but the outcome was that I didn’t like to go outside. I was very negative and would not allow people I didn’t know get close to me. This in turn pushed my wife away from and started the ball rolling to where we are now.
What am I like around her? I am the old me. No matter how much I feel like #### I always have a smile on my face. Dressed very nice, clean shaven and wearing cologne (I never worn any before, but she likes it). When we were playing outside on Sunday, I made sure to speak to my old neighbors and engage them in conversation. Listen to what the W had to say and did stuff with the kids that I didn’t do before. I have been doing these 180’s since the day I moved out of the house but at first they were for her to see me, now they are for me to have fun. I have decided that I want to be the person I was regardless if it ends up with W or not.
When we are together it does feel like a play date. I am defiantly very eager and express hope that all will be fine. I know my next move needs to be able to detach but I am having a very difficult time doing that. I literally think of her and the kids every second of the day, as I am sure most in our sitch do to. Heck I even had two dreams last about all of us together! I am trying to GAL but it really has not taken my mind off of the sitch. My job performance has tanked and I am seeing a C but nothing seems to be helping.
The only book I have read is DR twice. You recommend anything else?
So this is where I am at. I feel like I am doing the right things but am having trouble taking the next steps. Thanks as always for reading and offering advice! ____________________________________ M32 W32 D7 D4 S3 M9yrs Bomb 01/12/11 Filed 01/17/11
HS, Just read through your sitch. Mine is similar to yours in that there's no OM or A. Wife left because of my depression issues.
I see that there's one thing thats going for you. Is this the first time your W left? If thats the case, you have an awesome opportunity to look at yourself, analyze what you can do better and improve. When your W sees them, she definitely will come back. My W did that in 2009 when she left for 6 months. Only problem was that at the time i did not have help of sites like this. I did not forge a tighter bond with my W after she came back. Our relationship got strained and now we are at the doorsteps of D.
So, remember, make that change permanent and when your W starts warming up to you and you guys get together, make sure that you make that bond with your W better and tighter.
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
