I can identify with Mentalradio in his concers in having his child introduced to new people in XW life and even in his.
I've been through this with my own children. However I do feel their ages have everything to do with how they handle it.
His Daughter is very young, and may not quite grasp everything that's going on. I learned this in a mandatory divorce class. It was the best class and I think it should be mandatory that this class be taken before you file for divorce. It sure makes you stop and think of it from the child's perspective.
What I learned is that younger children tend to adapt more easily. Getting towards adolescence and teenager years...that's the rough part. I've got one pissed off pre teen that hates the OW and one 9 year old that doesn't care either way as long as she sees her dad.
I agree with Mr Bond, it's time to talk about it and set boundaries. When you see how your behavior effects your kids, its a no brainer to figure out what to do that's right for the kids. Listen to your kids, they will let you know what they need.
The name of this site is "Divorce Busting". It is a place that people come to when their marriage is in serious trouble.
As Bond said, those that haven't experienced this have NO idea what it's like to go through it.
I had a few beliefs myself of what I would and wouldn't put up with before BD. Some of those things flew out the window when I was in the thick of this. With knowledge and support I've changed my thinking on a lot of things and have gotten new perspectives.
Most folks came here trying to save their M's. I dare say I've read nothing in Michele's principles that state trying to control another person as the only one you can control is yourself. In reading your previous posts and now your more recent ones, I don't think I've ever read anything about you looking in the mirror and owning your part in the breakdown of your M. If you did, I apologize for missing it.
Most people that come to these boards come here in hopes of reconciling their marriages. If that is your goal, going about it in the way you describe will do nothing to help you achieve that. If you no longer want to reconcile your M, that's OK too, your choice, but the first thing you need to be concerned with is your children and the way you conduct yourself while untangling from your W. They're watching and depending on you.
As Eric said, you're the sane, non batchit crazy parent. This one is on you.
Look I am not saying you have to agree with her choice.
If you don't what can you do?
Really? Legally? Your W will probably have at least joint custody if it comes to that point.
Unless you can prove she is an unfit parent. regardless of what you or I think of her choice it is probably not going to be grounds for a court to say she can't have your daughter around OM unless, as I say, you prove it harmful.
Is it harmful?
F@ck yeah it is. I believe that MR. Everyone here would agree I think.
I am (and others) saying focus on what YOU control. A wise friend said here
"it is not your job to repair the relationship between your daughter and her mother, it is your job not to damage it."
Nickel Grace.
Even when you don't agree with her.
That is not passive it is making the right decision. Do you think your daughter is better in the long run with her Mother in her life?
What boundary would you place on this situation? What would be the consequence if she crosses it?
Your D needs to see you in control. Not trying to control her mother.
Think about when you first came here how you felt as an LBS and what your self esteem was like. What do you think is the source of your daughter's distress? She is only a child so think how she is processing these same emotions. Her mother left...
You have been there yourself haven't you? Helping her through those feelings is where I would put my energy if I were you.
Helping her understand that her mother's choices are not about her.
Is there a possibility of talking to her about some rules with your D? Offering to adhere to the same rules would be helpful.
If she feels you are being spiteful or controling I think you get a short two word answer from her and the first word starts with "f" and the second ends with "you"
Your anger won't serve you here MR. I man with strength controls it, a passive man let's it control him.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Because it's easy to give advice to someone when they've never experienced this for themselves.
I can't disagree with this statement in any way, shape, or form. It's human nature. I get that.
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Everyone here has experienced the pain of seeing their children go through this and have had to make the hard decisions.
But, the overwhelming sentiment in the MLC archive (not only this thread) is that most/all here seem to advocate the "hard decision" of remaining passive in regards to their children. No matter how much divorce busting and/or 'working on myself' we all do there comes a point - specifically when it comes to the well-being of our kids - that we have to call a spade a spade...
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Besides, there's no paradox to it. The fact is that your W (and you for that matter) can do whatever you want and actually introduce your D to whomever you go out with.
Thankfully, my lawyer does not share that sentiment - in regards to the context in which my wife placed our daughter in the situation I described.
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PLUS the guy isn't even in the states. So it's not like your D will be seeing him all the time.
A 4-year old child is very impressionable. It only takes one time to get burnt.
His Daughter is very young, and may not quite grasp everything that's going on. I learned this in a mandatory divorce class. It was the best class and I think it should be mandatory that this class be taken before you file for divorce. It sure makes you stop and think of it from the child's perspective.
We both took a mandatory class called "Spare The Child" which, in a nutshell, teaches divorcing parents not to do exactly the type of thing she did with our daughter - which makes me even more livid about the situation.
In reading your previous posts and now your more recent ones, I don't think I've ever read anything about you looking in the mirror and owning your part in the breakdown of your M. If you did, I apologize for missing it.
My posts go back more than two years. If you search my user name you should be able to see all my historical posts. No need to rehash everything here. This has been an extremely powerful and humbling experience...to say the least.
Thanks for your feedback. I like what you have to say.
Your anger won't serve you here MR. I man with strength controls it, a passive man let's it control him.
One of my favorite Gandhi quotes:
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"I have learned through bitter experience the one supreme lesson to conserve my anger, and as heat conserved is transmuted into energy, even so our anger controlled can be transmuted into a power which can move the world."
"But, the overwhelming sentiment in the MLC archive (not only this thread) is that most/all here seem to advocate the "hard decision" of remaining passive in regards to their children. No matter how much divorce busting and/or 'working on myself' we all do there comes a point - specifically when it comes to the well-being of our kids - that we have to call a spade a spade..."
For one thing, I resent it when you say it's "being passive". If you actually stuck around and read the threads, you would see that there's not one person in any situation (MLC or otherwise) that wouldn't want to call out their WAS on their BS.
The difference is that you weigh out what the affect is going to be on the child in the first place. If you go ahead and "call a spade a spade" and tell your D that your W shouldn't be doing this or that, then it makes the child feel like they have to take a side. Then your W tells her something else and it confuses the hell out of her. Maybe when she's older, but that's your decision.
"Thankfully, my lawyer does not share that sentiment - in regards to the context in which my wife placed our daughter in the situation I described."
So you actually have it in writing that your W is not to date other men and she signed it? I'd like to see how that's enforceable. And what about you? I'm assuming if the right person came along, you'd date her. Are you saying that you signed away your rights to do that too?
"We both took a mandatory class called "Spare The Child" which, in a nutshell, teaches divorcing parents not to do exactly the type of thing she did with our daughter - which makes me even more livid about the situation."
HMMM I guess your W doesn't give a crap about what you feel because you're not married any more. Even though it may not be the right thing to do, your W has chosen to do what she wants. If you start going after her, all it will do is cause resentment and anger in both of you and in the end it's your D who's going to suffer.
You know rather than coming here, asking for advice, then criticizing the people who are offering their two cents while their going through their own pain, why don't you go to a family C with your XW and air out your differences there?
Both of you need an impartial person to tell you what's best for your D.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
This OW's husband shot my then H in the head and then tried to kill himself directly after.
Obviously my Xh and OW's xh lived.
OW's xh ( shooter) was put in prison. He gets out in 2015.
Do you have any idea what it does to me knowing my kids are over there every week? Knowing that when he gets out of jail he more than likely will go after Xh and OW and my kids are there?
Yet legally I can't do a damn thing about it. The shooter has shown no harm to my children and nor has his xw. Until my children are put into any situation or harms way....my xh has his parental rights.
I understand the anger, I do. I tried to put a morality clause into my divorce but it didn't stand. I had NO CHOICE but to let this go on.
For one thing, I resent it when you say it's "being passive". If you actually stuck around and read the threads, you would see that there's not one person in any situation (MLC or otherwise) that wouldn't want to call out their WAS on their BS.
My apologies if it came across that way. That was not my intent at all. I don't even care about confronting my wife. My only concern is protecting my daughter from my wife's bad choices.
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If you go ahead and "call a spade a spade" and tell your D that your W shouldn't be doing this or that, then it makes the child feel like they have to take a side.
Where did I say anything about telling my daughter something bad about her mom??? I would never do something like that, and I have no idea how you would extrapolate that possibility from anything I've posted on this thread the last few days.
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"Thankfully, my lawyer does not share that sentiment - in regards to the context in which my wife placed our daughter in the situation I described."
So you actually have it in writing that your W is not to date other men and she signed it? I'd like to see how that's enforceable. And what about you? I'm assuming if the right person came along, you'd date her. Are you saying that you signed away your rights to do that too?
The first part of your earlier statement read:
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Besides, there's no paradox to it. The fact is that your W (and you for that matter) can do whatever you want
My response was:
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my lawyer does not share that sentiment - in regards to the context in which my wife placed our daughter in the situation I described.
Fact is, neither my wife and I can/should place our children in unknown/risky situations in which they have no say or control, and which could be damaging to their emotional and psychological well-being. That is enforceable by law in my state. I could give a rat's ass who she dates.
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HMMM I guess your W doesn't give a crap about what you feel because you're not married any more.
We're still married and will be for many more months.
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If you start going after her, all it will do is cause resentment and anger in both of you and in the end it's your D who's going to suffer.
That's a fair argument that I can agree with. In the end though, as I've said previously, I'm not concerned about what my wife does. I only care about how her choices affect our daughter. It was a stupid move to put our daughter in an unknown/risky situation (over which she has zero control, with an unknown person [to her]...in a foreign country. What's worse? Me trying to mitigate that situation and try and provide my daughter some measure of protection - even if it pisses off my wife? Or.....should I continue to stand by and allow these types of situations to happen, knowing full well that it causes my daughter anxiety and stress?
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You know rather than coming here, asking for advice, then criticizing the people who are offering their two cents while their going through their own pain, why don't you go to a family C with your XW and air out your differences there?
Both of you need an impartial person to tell you what's best for your D.
I love the feedback here - good or bad. I thought that's what the forum was about - I give my two cents, then you give your give your two cents? It sounds like we've come up a penny short...
Haha... Seriously, you're not that sensitive are you? Was this in regards to my reply to Eric? He called me on a lot of my bs, and called him out on one statement I consider a bs statement/point of view. Fair exchange I would say...
On the other hand, if this was in regards to my comments about people seeming "passive" in regards to their children, in my personal opinion it all boils down to one question I asked Eric in my reply to him:
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If you saw you're loved one being driven towards the edge of a cliff, would you stand by and let her go over the edge?
[*]If you knew that boundaries won't work [*]If you knew the spouse/significant other was extremely stubborn [*]If you knew [from experience] that he/she would never agree to counseling [*]If you knew that your significant other has a history of affairs, and other 'risky' type of behavior
Knowing all this,How long would you put up with the BS? What would any sensible parent do? How many bad choices would it take for you to say "Enough is enough!"
That's all I'm asking...
I truly do enjoy the give and take here, and I hope it continues. It helps me wrap my head around the situation and broadens my perspective.
