GREAT book! We also went through Harley's "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" at New Beginnings - also very good.
Glad to hear you and your W had a life changing weekend at Retro. It's inspiring to see the other couples and success stories, I'm sure. Forgiveness truly is a big part of all of this.
Thanks, Savemymarr and Sunny. Savemymarr, I just read your post on Saffie's thread. Your story is very moving. How did the two of you decide to go to Retrouvaille? Did she ask you to go or did you ask her?
sorry did not respond sooner Lotus. since June I knew something was not right. my gut told me that. i was correct in hindsight. i should have acted on it sooner? either way i knew we were in dire straits and were approaching crisis point after her 40th bday. my buddy did tell me that after her 40th i would know the direction we were headed in.
i remember seeing some of the others on this forum talking about Retrouvaille and i even looked it up. was interested. i broached the idea of it with the W in July and a few times after that all the while she was engaged in her A. we even went to MC once as a couple, and i marvel now at how she sat there pretending to be engaged in the session. ha. after i found out and exposed the A, i continued to rack my brain about what to do next.
i found Retrouvaille again. i exposed 9/5 (?) and things were dire there. i knew Retrou in our area was the w/e of 9/24-9/26. too soon i thought? i asked her about it once we started talking a little more. of course never once has she come out and openly admitted to A. just let hints drop or talking about it in indirect fashion (typical i m sure). maybe it makes her feel better and she doesnt feel as guilty.
we went back and forth about going. almost told her forget it myself. she actually said that waiting was probably not a good thing. good for her bc we went when i agreed that she was right. the w/e was awesome and we are now 2 weeks out. have gone to 2 sessions. good but sense a little backsliding from W. doesn't seem as interested. seems bored actually. it worries me.
i suspect some of it has to do with withdrawal from A and OM, no? i hope they are not in contact. bc if they are then i can say that's it. i do not have the strength in me to deal with the bs. i would be tempted to tell her to go take a hike and run to her dream man. i KNOW i am the superior man.
i am the man who was there for her in the beginning, the man who supported and loved her in a way that her parents and every other relationship she had had did not, the man who accepted and supported her unconditionally when she revealed the sexual abuse she suffered at the hands of her father... i am not an ex drug abuser, probable alcoholic or heavy drinker, uneducated, womanizing, overweight, anger issues that make mine seem small, uninterested in doing what is needed to make myself a better person... if u want to run to that, go ahead. i will not stop u. file and i will sign.
i have reached a point in my life where yes i would most certainly be disappointed, heartbroken and shaken by our D but i am not afraid of being alone and will not be a doormat. i will be that father and man i have always aspired to be. i can be THAT husband too. and if not for her, then it will be someone else who will reap the benefits of being with that man. her loss which she will regret later on as will I. but if it has to happen, then alright. i feel strong, positive, inspired and hopeful that i can accept whatever may come.
i am prepared to Committ, Love, Trust and Forgive. she isnt yet (or at least it seems that way but it is obviously waaaaayyyyy to early for that now however much i wish it weren't). i need to be patient. hard to do, easy to say.
thank you for letting me say this. sorry for the longwinded response. i do that now. i have tapped into something i never could do before with any regularity. i can feel and share it with others. one of the benefits of ur spouse having an affair and breaking their vows for a 2nd time.
I still hear quite a bit of anger coming through. I hope she is not seeing him again, too. It does sound like you sped the process along quite a bit. We went to Retrouvaille fairly quickly too, although I am less sure of the timeline now that it is 3 years out. I discovered his affair on about Dec 1, and I confront him that night. My son confronted OW by phone the next morning and so the big scene would have been on that day. Then we went to visit my daughter at college on about December 15, and spent about 3 days together. Then he flew home alone, and my daughter and I drove home, taking until after Xmas to get there. I know that during that time, he was still talking to OW. When we went to Retro on Jan 18, he was unsure of which way he would go. But I don't believe he spoke to her again after Retrouvaille. If he did, it would have just been once to let her know that we were really going to reconcile. So my timeline was about 6 weeks, which I always thought was quite fast.
As we did the Post sessions, we were very careful to do all the homework and dialogue even though sometimes it was a strain. I remember not feeling fully committed until about the last Post session. It took us both a long time to really accept the idea that we had to forgive and trust and commit all at once, not when we felt ready to do each thing. I remember that we called one of the team couples a few weeks into the Post sessions to ask for some suggestions of how to get past an obstacle.
Don't give up hope. Work with her. Dialogue about everything, even if some subjects scare you. And don't hesitate to call either the team couples or the Post couple and ask for help. This is not easy.
wow thanks Lotus. would say there is some residual anger but not much bc have decided to move on. the past is past. i am prepared to forgive and love and trust and committ. probably what u r sensing now is how her slight backsliding in the past few days is making me feel uneasy. that brings out the frustration in me.
most def we are dialoguing every day. but need to be good about the homework. thank u for ur words of wisdom and ur insights as well as prior experience. the one couple that really helped us during the w/e and the first session were not present for the 2nd session. the H had had an A, and my W has found him to be inspiring.
Hi, I’m new here. I am posting on this thread because my wife and I have been through Retrouvaille and have continued to be involved with that wonderful program. One of the leaders in our community recommend Michele’s books and I just finished reading Divorce Remedy, which is absolutely the best book I have read on the subject.
In our case, neither one was entirely enthusiastic about attending Retrouvaille (we made our fist weekend in May 2000). The *only* reason I went was so that I could truthfully say I had ‘tried everything.’ However, I also recognized even then that I had to make a genuine effort and not just give it lip-service. I have to say that all that is needed is entering into the program with an open mind and actually *doing* the program (which includes all the post sessions as a critical component of it) will reap many rewards in their marriage.
Our community also has monthly CORE meetings (Continuing Our Retrouvaille Experience) in which ‘graduates’ meet to hear short presentations by other alumni and receive support.
An important element is the recognition that nobody’s marriage is ever ‘fixed’ but is a work in progress.
If there is an affair in the marriage, they do ask that it be ended before the weekend, since it is really impossible to do meaningful work on a marriage with that going on. On our weekend, one spouse came directly from breaking up with the other person. (I know this site has abbreviations for this, and hopefully I will learn them in time - I did just join!) Similarly with addictions, which will prevent any sustainable work on the marriage being done unless recovery is entered.
There is one slight correction I’d like to make: Retrouvaille receives absolutely no monetary support from the Catholic Church, and is not co-sponsored by it. Some parishes may offer ‘moral’ support (but many are woefully uninformed about it). Although it is Catholic in origin, Retrouvaille International is a non-profit organization that is entirely self-sustaining through contributions. In our community at least, no couple is *ever* turned away for lack of finances. As your experience has shown, Retrouvaille is not only open to all, but actively welcomes all faiths (or even no-faith).
I hope that this is not too long a post - I look forward to participating here more!
thanks Arnie! our support/mentor couples have been great! thank you for doing what you do. really. it means a lot and has helped many others. hope ur marriage is doing well. would appreciate any insights.
my W had her A exposed just 3 weeks before our Retrouvaille weekned. by big fear remains that dreaded what if? what if OM returns? what if my W waivers or goes back to chasing the OM? thankfully the OM lives in a state far away although he spent 6 months within 100 miles of where we live only having recently returned home the beginning of Sept.
on hike today w/ just she and I, she seemed to acknowledge how we have work to do and actually seemed to be looking towards the future with hope. talk about how good i felt when she said that.
with my newfound faith (which i know Retrouvaille does not require necessarily) along w/ hers which she's had all along (which is kind of ironic in a way, no?), the program is particularly moving. hopefully we will be able to see it through successfully.
we are still work on the four pillars bc forgiveness has supposedly been a problem for her. she is "angry" at me for what i have done in the past but suspect she is actually using that to re-channel her guilt over having committed adultery, and I am NOT being vindictive or angry w/ her at all but actually quite loving and forgiving. it is totally the opposite of what she would normally expect and have received from me. it is part of my 180s. i am letting go of being reactive, angry and lashing out bc that serves no purpose. maybe that is bothering her bc her i am trying to forgive myself and her, while she may be having a problem doing the same for herself and for me. W is probably not there yet.
It is definitely a journey, and one you and she are taking with great courage. Since this place has a proclivity for abbreviations, remember that FANRNW! Hear and validate her anger - that does not mean you have to agree with her. Although there are no guarantees, if the anger is indeed being used to cover fear, pain, or sadness (as is usually the case), validating her feelings will have the paradoxical effect of allowing those underlying feelings to come to the surface. Allowing whatever feelings she has to be expressed is the greatest gift you could give her in helping sort through all of it.
The same goes for your feelings as well - it does little good to stuff anger - there is huge difference between feeling something (like anger) and choosing to act out from it. Your FANRNW as well.
my H and I went to Retrovaille last year and got a lot out of it. As someone else said, it was entirely funded by contributions and no one was turned away due to finances. They made a point of being clear about that and so much so, that my h and I contributed enough for ourselves and another couple to attend, to make sure another couple would be able to afford it. And it was not expensive when you realize they provided housing and food, and "Entertainment". Also, our speakers ALL had a spouse or two who'd been in affairs, so although we were told to end any A's that might be going on, our speakers certainly had experience with it.
Also for us, the stories we heard were so sad and tragic YET with happy endings, it made us feel relatively lucky and optimistic. And we are. We're still here.
I highly recommend it. My h is not Catholic and we did not feel pressure in that way at all. The priest offered to listen to anyone "who felt they had been harmed by the church" and I thought that was cool and tough for him. An atheist might have trouble with it but for us, the priest was so low key I cannot imagine any but the most ardent atheists being irritated by him. Maybe it's baggage or a reason to justify not getting something out of it. Have not heard of anyone not helped although not all make it. I read somewhere that 80% of couples who attend Retrovaille are still together 2 years later. That's pretty impressive when you consider the circumstances in which they attended.
We Got a lot out of it. In fact, We'd Recommend it for ALL couples, not just those in trouble. And yes, my "Sage advice" for those willing to do "anything" to save their marriage, is to forgive, let go of the past and your scorecard and stop mind reading or thinking you know what motivates your spouse. Take their words at face value til actions prove otherwise...
can't think of ANY long term marriage that has not had to do all of these. good luck all,
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
since June I knew something was not right. my gut told me that. i was correct in hindsight. i should have acted on it sooner? either way i knew we were in dire straits and were approaching crisis point after her 40th bday. my buddy did tell me that after her 40th i would know the direction we were headed in.