Hello. Thot I would try posting here. Re-cap of my sitch: I got the "spiel" back in sept. My h was very close to moving out. Said he "loved me and wasn't even mad at me" but he didn't know if he was committed to our marriage. This was after he returned from a 5 day hunting trip by himself. Looking back I can see h struggling with MLC issues for quite awhile (him seeing himself as "aging", taking on a second job, changing his vocation with his fulltime job, and to my horror, attempting to have an EA with his female boss via email, just to mention a few mlc traits). I fell apart but started reading about MLC and DB techniques. I backed off and gave him space. I let him know when he did something that I appreciated. He would not tell me that he loved me and the notes he used to leave for me were without the "love" sign off. H was very withdrawn at first but slowly started to warm up to me again. I was careful not to say, "I love you" very much as it made him feel very uncomfortable. After a couple of months he initiated saying, "I love you" to me. And I know he was sincere. It still bothered me that he didn't bring up where he stood committment-wise with me. About 6 weeks ago he did an about face and became very loving and more talkative with me. The "endearing" emails to his female boss also stopped. 2 weeks ago I told my H that I was confused by him saying that he loved me and him being more open to me with his feelings. I told him that I was still under the impression he was still wavering with a committment to our marriage because he had not said anything about that. He looked shocked and said that he was committed but that marriage was not a "guarantee". He also said, "well I'm here aren't I?"
I talked to him about what we could do to make our marriage stronger? One of the things he said was that appreciated me giving him "space" since last sept. We also agreed that we needed to spend more time with each other doing things together (was one of his beefs last year that I didn't do anything with him). I asked if he would consider joint counselling (he previously refused). He hasn't gotten back to me on that. I have gone to the marriage builders site and some other ones and have read some excellent info and advise. I have occaisionally printed off some material and left it laying around (communication and dealing with conflict stuff). Some of it has he has read. But he is avoiding discussing it. He IS wanting for me to join him on business day trips. Problem is we both work shift work and it is hard to coordinate our time together. He is very impulsive and springs his ideas on me at the last minute.
I feel like I am stuck here. I think my h figures that a "good" marriage just "happens" if you are with the right person. I don't want to push my H. I really don't see any resolution so far to issues we have together. I have had to look inside of myself and some of it I do not like. My h told me that he has never doubted my love or committment. My trust in him has declined and H is not even aware of that. H is also not aware that I know about his "endearing" emails. His female boss lives several hundreds of miles away so I am not concerned about a PA right now. But he has destroyed a part of my trust and I can't talk to him about it. All he would hear was that I violated his privacy with the emails. I partly agree but I also do correspondance work and computer upgrading for him on his computer and I came across an email from him to her and then looked for more......yep found them too I'm sorry to say.
I am becoming more withdrawn and H is noticing. I feel trapped and I don't know how far I can go with relationship issues with him. I feel so intimidated to do anything. This is not a good day for me. Thanks for letting me say my story. Any ideas for me?
Wanted to post to you to let you know that I'm thinking about you and that I understand where you are right now. I've been through some of the things you described, like the not going out, and the feeling that H thinks marriage just "happens, its either there or it isn't". Which we both know is a crock. I think its an excuse by them.
I wish I had some good advice for you. But I'm going thru some of the same things (only I'm not getting any of the love, committment, affection ). Have you tried to set up dates for the two of you to do things together? Not sure if you have children, but I know couples need time to themselves, it is so important! Not just on his business trips, but things you both enjoy doing.
I'm also struggling with trust at the moment and my H doesn't know it either. I wish I had an answer for us both!
But I do commend you on giving him the space he needs to find himself again. Keep it up. And that space is for you too. Don't forget that. You are doing a great job. He seems to be coming around, it just takes time. Something I need to remind myself
JustLearning
Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but in the moments that take our breath away...
I understand completely where you're at -- been there -- your current sitch is a lot like mine. H home, not talking, but warming more all the time.
I'm thrilled and relieved but also wait for the "other shoe to drop" sometimes. I also have found emails I wasn't supposed to read, at first by accident but then was compelled to find out what he was doing, since he hid so much from me. Bad for the PMA but I'm glad I know what I know.
I want to offer some positive spin and encouragement. I think you're doing beautifully, and shouldn't worry about the missing trust for now. Give it lots and lots and lots of time. Don't push on this issue either.
If they hate R talk (and my H has never liked it) then R talks won't bring you closer. Don't pine. Have R talks with people like us who need them and want them and know how to listen and acknowledge you.
And wait to see what your H does.
I stopped R talks altogether, as my H started to get closer to me. "On the books" we were still separated and H still claimed the right to date and sleep around. Yikes! Horrible. I'd get the shakes. But I stopped letting him see me that way and went about life as though I was busy, occupied, and attractive.
He got very interested in me again, and has basically moved home. But he still maintains his other place. It drives me crazy, but I'm letting him re-frame it as "his office." He invites me over there. He put away the offending pix of the chick was was "in love" with. He's symbolically showing me I'm the one. Though it's hard for him to say.
And he will probably never admit what he did or how it hurt me, and we will probably never talk about those days. As time goes by, I am less and less interested in such a "catharsis."
Like you, I also find marriagebuilders.com advice to be very healing. As I piece together "what went wrong" in our M and try to take some responsibility, I see that my angry outbursts and disrespectful demands turned my H away from me. We also need to spend a lot more time doing fun things together.
So, even though it may hurt my career, as we recover our M, I make spending time with my H my first priority. I'll rearrange things on short notice to take a walk with him, linger over coffee, listen to music, hear his opinion. My boss doesn't like this, but my colleagues are understanding, and heck -- I can get another job but I've worked too hard at this recovering my M to let it slip into second place in the scheme of things.
DB-in has given me an opportunity to change that way of behaving. I've pretented to be calm, rational and light for so long, with such good results, that I want to keep it up -- for myself.
My H started an Internet adult website, with a buddy, as his career change after being laid off from his long-time job. Looking back I can see his MLC issues started even before this. He was surly and inattentive toward me and we hardly ever went out.
So spending lots of time being womanly, sexy, flirtatious and complimentary, like an OW would, has helped my H feel manly (and vital) again. At first I thought this was ridiculous and anti-feminist, but I got off that attitude. I am having fun with it now and it has brought us very close. Even without a "renewed commitment" I feel the bond between us strengthening all the time.
So take heart. Relax. Don't beat yourself up for your curiosity. Trust his ACTIONS -- trust the BABY STEPS -- they mean OODLES MORE than you may think.
And one more thing -- avoid at all costs putting the negative spin on things. I do this out of fear and it always sets me back. Count the good stuff. Write it down. Log it. Read your logs. And see the pattern changing toward love again.
Thank you JustLearning and Bridget for your very positive replies. They really have helped to pick my spirits up! I have felt so smothered with all of h's MLC issues as well as our relationship issues. I am in the process of planning small goals for myself. Will let you know what I come up with. Take care and give yourselves a pat on your backs too. You both are making a difference in other's lives........mine for one. <<<HUGS>>>!
Just an update here. Since last summer when my H hit one of his peaks in MLC, he has refused to go for joint counselling with me. We had gone previously off and on. After a particularly heated "discussion" the other day, (had to do with H deciding to take off in a snow storm on "business") I realized that both my h and myself were "discussing 2 different things. I asked H if he would consider going for joint counselling to learn some new communication techniques for the two of us. He said ok (I almost fainted) and HE made a joint C appt for a couple of days from now!!
I have no idea how this is going to work out but I am hoping that we both can learn some new communication skills that work for US. I am trying to slow down here and not have as high expectations for myself, my h, and our marriage. There is a lotta give and take that needs to be done here. I hope I don't lose myself along the line.......
Haven't checked into the BB much this week, sorry not to reply sooner.
First of all, congratulations on your milestone in DB-ing. He made the C appointment? Wow! I'm blown away!
It's amazing, isn't it? When we back off, they come forward. I'm still in awe when that happens to me. And it seems like it's happening to you, too.
What does Michele call that effect? See-saw? Tandem bike? (My dogs call it Tug.)
You drop the rope, they pick it up and wag it in your face. Who knew they would want to play? It's scary! They could just walk away for good...
It's not how I thought things worked. Heck, it's not how things DID WORK the first dozen years we were together -- back then we could talk about anything, anytime, and resolve them together.
But I guess R's go through development stages, people do too, and you've gotta learn what works and what doesn't at the different stages.
Way to go, Ange -- you are doing a very difficult thing by letting go and letting your H have the space and time he needs right now. It's a BIG GIFT to give him.
(Jeez. Wouldn't you like to get "continuing education" credits for all this work?)
He may not write you a thank-you note, per se, but he is finding HIS OWN WAY to tell you how much it means to him. He is telling you how much YOU mean to him, by remembering something important to you and making time for it.
Go ahead and do a little dance and whoop out loud when he's not looking. But keep up some "mystery" and keep doing "something different" around him. Keep DB-ing, in other words.
By now maybe you've been to the C session. How did it go? Major milestone -- mark the day!
Let him know how much it means to you, but don't belabor it. (Unless belaboring it works for you.)
For me, right now, clamming up works better than gushing does. Saying it once has more impact with my H. And it seems less like nagging.
Even as we speak I'm trying to learn these same lessons, so I don't want to come off as a big shot, just want to reinforce "doing what works" and say I think you're right on track, grrrlll!
Can't wait for an update.
Just thinking about C sessions reminds me: when my H came home and started being affectionate, I worried BIG TIME about why he wanted my company. He'd been chasing pretty young women all over the country.
Why did he come home? Can I trust it? I couldn't ask my H, so I panicked in my C's office.
My C said "people don't make a mistake when they marry." He said "people are primates, we need to relate." He said that my lovingly "letting go" made space for my H to be himself, and was more awesome than anything any OW could ever do for him!
It shows that my H wasn't a complete idiot after all! (ha ha) He picked me out originally because I'm awesome -- and now he knows he was right in the first place!
And that's how I'm framing it, going forward.
And funny, looking at the big picture, my H has "told" me the same things over time, as we recover our R.
My H doesn't say it in so many words. He so far has not said it in actions that I WANT -- like picking up his socks or cancelling his private phone line or dumping his raunchy pals.
He says it by showing off FOR ME a new song he learned, bragging that he got some groceries in, calling me when he gets an idea, and calling me "monkeyface" in the morning.
In the old days I'd have griped at how SELFISH or INSENSITIVE these gestures are, how BABY-ISH he's being.
But now I re-frame these as HIS WAY (right now) of being friendly, even generous. Not long ago I got the door slammed in my face, remember?
Michele's ideas (and the BB, and learning about MLC) have helped me RE-FRAME how I think about things, and to accept his gestures (again) with kindness (like when we were courting).
I'm amazed. It works.
I'm feeling better all the time -- when things work you gain confidence. It really helps to "have a plan."
Proud of you. Let us know how it goes! Keep busting the D!
Bridget? Thank you for you awesome support and encouragement! I also am encouraged by your sitch too.
Well here goes. Our joint appt was interesting...We did talk about communication and also some other issues came up. I did very little talking. One of the issues that came up was my h's need for "independance" in a lot of areas of his life. The C commented on my h's strong feelings (my h was quite verbally agitated). I will admit that I was taken aback by the "independance" stance.
But h also wants to share a life with me. The C pointed out that my h's idea of "independance" (control....hmmm interesting..) could be preventing relationship intimacy between the two of us. I was a bit shaken up after the appt. Ok...I cried. But my h and I continued to talk after the appt.That is where we probably had our biggest break thru.
Finances have been such a sore point for h and me. H is willing to sit down and discuss finances now and reaffirmed that he is committed to our marriage. He seems to have taken another look at what independance means to him and he is willing to spend more time doing things with me that I like too.
It is a start. We have some excellent hand outs on different types of communication and a book recommendation. My h and I are very good at "conversing" but the way we communicate what our needs are does need a lot of work.
When I look back over the years I can see my h in a "stuttering MLC". Crisises followed by apparant calm and then escalating again to a crisis situation. I don't know what tomorrow will bring but I do have to live in the present and hope that what I do today will postively influence what is to be in the future.
I hope and pray that my h and I will try to be patient with each other and continue to "slog" it out when times get tough. It takes 2 for marriage repair. Thank you all for your invaluable advise and caring here. Especially you Bridget (aka "the chatty" lol).
God bless you all and best wishes for you all in piecing back your marriages. I know my marriage will not be the same as a result of going thru my h's MLC. It is going to be even better!!!!
This is a PS here. I mentioned to h that I felt uncomfortable with how much contact he had (phone now not email) with his female boss. H appeared stunned! H said "she's young enough to be my dtr!........well maybe not......." "we both are married!" "I don't call her every day, just when I have to".
Anyways, I think I got my point across without accusing him of attempting to have an emotional affair with her. H seems to have "heard" me and is confiding even more with me in his personal life. Is this good or bad? I choose to think that H is trying to be honest with me and that he recognizes that he got sidetracked with his selfish MLC issues last summer. His actions right now back that up. One day at a time here. Thanks for your support. <<<HUGS>>>
). Have you tried to set up dates for the two of you to do things together? Not sure if you have children, but I know couples need time to themselves, it is so important! Not just on his business trips, but things you both enjoy doing.
I posted my latest. <<<HUGS>> and thank you for your support!