My suggestion is to agree, agree, agree. Tell her that if you were her you would be saying the same thing. Tell her that you are a douche and a liar. Tell her she is justified. But only if you feel that way, that is. Then and only then can you perhaps get her to do this one last ditch effort to ensure that you did everything that you could possibly do to make it work. BUT...you have to really dig deep and commit....no more lying, get on the same page with parenting, etc.
"My suggestion is to agree, agree, agree. Tell her that if you were her you would be saying the same thing. Tell her that you are a douche and a liar. Tell her she is justified."
This is the worse thing you can do. You need to just validate what she said. Validating is not the same as agreeing.
Let's face it. You're not a total douche. YOu made mistakes like the rest of us. But so did she.
So you validate by saying "I see why you would feel that way." and "I understand you want a D and I respect that. It is your decision." And that's it. There's no sense in re-hashing the arguments. You just acknowledge what happened and move on.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You have some very SPECIFIC things you can do. Your W has told you exactly what those are. If you are interested in keeping your M, you know what you need to do.
You can start this in a real simple way. Honesty. If you had a cig or a couple of beers, or whatever, be honest about it with your W. Dishonesty doubles the problem. You've got the problem itself to deal with PLUS the dishonesty. Your M can work out, but EVERYONE wants honesty in their M. I assume you expect it from your W?
Then you can start working on the other stuff...quit smoking, quit drinking, attend church...if that's all stuff you've agreed to do, then start doing it.
You say in your opinion her mind is a mess....well, yes it probably is. According to you, she has a husband who is dishonest to his W, has debt issues, and a teenager in the house. IMO, you should start with your honesty issues. Trust in a M is vital.
Very well said, here is some more information: I came clean on everything with her. Every lie I ever told. This actually included taking pills behind her back (oxy, vicodin, perc), something I would do probably once a month on the weekend. But I started to develope issues with that. Since all this hit the fan I have 100% stopped and told all my friends and family about it. Actually, last Friday I was offered pills no charge! And I straight up declined it. But if I tell my wife, this equates to words, words are meaningless now as I have lied about so much and so consistantly. I'm almost 30 (7/26) and I have set a goal to quit smoking before then, I'm going to purchase patches, not even because she wants me to, because I want to. To clarify; that the debt is mostly hers, she has been using shopping as therapy. Without my income, it will be hard on her, and to be honest, that kills me.
When I came clean with her, it was like a whole new deception. A lot to process.... hmmmmmm ok yeah that clicks Glimmerman, I see what you are saying. I have given her free access to my FB and all email accounts as well. I have carried my cigarettes in front of her since that day, and smoked in front of her. She has called me while I'm buying cigarettes, asked what I'm doing, and I am honest with her. But do I expect a few months of (as far as she would see it, and I dont't blame her) forced honesty to erase a year of lies? absolutely not. I imagine in my absence she is left to question every little thing, every little doubt she ever had about me, and in her frustration, finds it easier to D and just not continue processing it. I do not blame her for any of that at all. I feel absolutely devastated that I caused her so much pain and distrust. She has always been honest with me, always. I owed her the same, and did not give it. She says she forgives me, but does not believe she can trust me again. Now that I'm coming out of my depressed funk, largely due to an awesome support system and reading this board over the last few days, I'm starting to look forward. Trying to plot out these changes.
I thank you so much for your response and your blunt-ness!! I need it!!
I can see what you are both saying. I absolutely want this to work!! One realization that I had: The price of me not sharing 100% of myself with her, is to not be able to share any of myself with her. I don't want that ever again, no more lies! When I have drank, I have told her. She has actually been checking up on me here and there.
The first weekend on my own, I went out drinking Fri & Sat night, but did not over-consume, did not get drunk, and limited myself to 2 drinks max over several hours (no not long islands). She was upset by this (which at first made me mad, then I gave it more thought and understood), she said that now that she's not around, I'm just falling back on what I'm comfortable with.... yep for the most part. So this last weekend I made a point to go visit some friends and see their newborn on Friday, declined all invites to go out that night too. Then Saturday, just had some friends over. But alas, did I drink? Yes, Friday = 1/2 of a PBR over 3hrs, Saturday = 1 beer. So while drinking is still there, I am not getting intoxicated. I guess I just need to forgo the drinking alltogether. Mainly, I need to innovate and find new activities, that are healthy and beneficial. I am going to start going to the gym, once my strenghth is back up. As I said, I was majorly depressed, I lost 30lbs in 3 weeks.
As far as validation. Yes!! That is a brilliant suggestion!! I do agree with her, I do feel like a d-bag!! Before I would always say, "I lied, and I'm very sorry but... I'm doing better...blah blah blah" I just need to learn when to shut my mouth and stop trying to convince her with words, validate, and as I_miss_him says "Dig deep and commit"!!
"My suggestion is to agree, agree, agree. Tell her that if you were her you would be saying the same thing. Tell her that you are a douche and a liar. Tell her she is justified."
This is the worse thing you can do. You need to just validate what she said. Validating is not the same as agreeing.
Let's face it. You're not a total douche. YOu made mistakes like the rest of us. But so did she.
So you validate by saying "I see why you would feel that way." and "I understand you want a D and I respect that. It is your decision." And that's it. There's no sense in re-hashing the arguments. You just acknowledge what happened and move on.
By agree, I guess that is what I meant. To show understanding of why they feel the way they do. I know that until I did that my H would not even entertain a convo with me. And no of course he is not a total douche....but his wife thinks he is... And he is the one who wants to save the marriage.....not her. So I think it is in his best interst to validate that feeling as well. But alas....my M sucks...and I do not have a Phd in pshychology....not that I think that would help my sitch even if I did! :lol:
I understand what you are saying. She actually did call me douchey on Sunday. Am I a douche? no. Have I been acting like one? YES!! I told her about a new video game I was getting (she likes video games), and she wanted to play. I said, "Well I would invite you to come over and play but you don't want to". She later said that she would like to, and perhaps I should be less douchey about it. Yeah.... I have made lots of mistakes. And the "aww shucks, you wouldn't wanna hang out with little old me" insecure needy approach, has not earned me any respect. Go figure! sigh
She also said on Sunday that she feels like an empty shell and all she has to offer me right now is her friendship, which honestly, I'm lucky to have that! In response, I looked at her, my eyes tearing up and said "will you be my friend", she looked back, teary eyes as well, and said "yes I will". And then she clasped my hand. While she says that she wants D, she also has said that she can't imagine completely losing me, and that no matter what, she wants me in her life in some capacity.
I have tried to avoid any R talk lately, and I can still get several laughs out of her. So luckily she isn't completely cold towards me. But I just wonder if she is only trying to avoid an ugly divorce. It tends to be that sort of pondering that makes me crazy, so all I can do is stop, and focus on myself. It took me months of racing thoughts, heavy depression, and semi-insanity for that to finally kick in. And who knows, tomorrow I may relapse and be in utter despair again. But reading this board, I won't say that it kept my mind OFF things, but it kept it on the RIGHT things. Hopefully someday I'll be able to contribute, but I still have lots to learn. A huge thanks to all who have replied so far!!
