Huband is having an emotional affair

[Allen A]

Thanks for the critiquing the e-mail for me. I definately wanted someone to look it over before I sent it to H. I won't send the e-mail yet but it felt good to put my feelings on paper since H and I don't seem to know how to communicate to each other about what has happened.

It not only feels good, it gives you PRACTICE at communicating how you feel. Practicing in person with your spouse isn't the best way to get that practice time in, its way too stressful to learn under those conditions.

4luv- I know what you mean about sending your H a letter and then changing your mind. I have basically tried to communicate to H how I feel but it usually becomes a debate between us and he also says that I am trying to make him feel bad. He doesn't seem to like the guilt that is associated with what he has done.

Your husband TURNS it into a debate.

Who on earth said communication had to feel GOOD?

Sometimes your spouse has to tell you how they feel and its NOT GOOD NEWS... So you shut that OUT? Silence the bad news? Debate that bad news into going away?

Sometimes you do things to hurt your spouse, and debating that into the ground until its SILENT is NOT going to make your marriage any better.

This sounds like it is EXACTLY what your Husband is doing.

Somehow I doubt HE would like it if HIS feelings were trod over like that as if they don't matter.

Its classic bullying. Your husband my dear is a BULLY.

If he doens't LIKE the guilt that comes from you telling him how you feel he has two choices :

a. Bully your communication into the ground until you give up and just be silent
b. Shut up, LISTEN, feel like CRAP for the TIME BEING, and then USE the information you just got to STOP HURTING YOUR DAMN SPOUSE!!!

Which one do you think he should be doing ALJ?

This e-mail is the first stand up letter that I have sent to H and hopefully he will respond in a positive way but he might just get mad, make excuses for his actions, or not respond at all.

ALJ, you need to STOP worrying about him getting MAD. Your husabnd is using his ANGER to manipulate you into stomaching an AWFUL LOT of ABUSE. This is classic symptoms of bullying and abuse here. LET him get MAD. Let him STEW!

Your HUSBAND needs to LEARN that getting MAD at feelings of GUILT is CHILDISH and ABUSIVE, not to mention destructive to a marriage.

Your husband is going to get mad, he is going to make excuses, he is going to distance himself.

Let him.

The further away he is, the better. His bullying and abuse isnt' being ENABLED anymore. YOU will feel BETTER for a change.

He WILL feel worse, but your words will RESONATE for a while. When he argues and you eventually give up and go silent. HE THINKS he's solved the problem and will DISCARD what you feel. He thinks its resolved! When you just say what you have to say and IGNORE his TANTRUM then the words RESONATE.

Then you say them AGAIN.

And AGAIN

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand AGAIN.

It's called standing up for yourself, and its great for your confidence and your dignity.

Spousal abuse and bullying and these sorts of dynamics have patterns, and I can read them quite resonantly here in your posts.

My dear, your husband is bullying your marriage into the ground. And he's putting a slice of infidelity on the top of it just to make it hurt all the more.

Allen- I agree with you on the wording that I used about the kids not needing child support as much as their dad. Maybe I should change the wording to "H, you providing financial support to the kids is not going to fill the void of you not physically and mentally being here for them. They constantly ask me "where are you, when are you coming home for good?"

That is MUCH better.

As of right now, we do not have any legal agreements regarding our separation, visitation regarding the kids, or any child support payments ordered by the court. I haven't went that route yet because H gives us most of his unemployment money. Once H does get a job, I am hoping that he will give me money voluntarily for the kids because there will be no more unemployment coming into our joint account. If he doesn't then I will have look into getting child support. After what happened at the BBQ last saturday with husband, I don't think I will attending too many of the family gatherings where he is present also. My MIL, SIL, and BIL would probably be upset if I am not there but it is just too uncomfortable for me when he purposely ignores me.

I think your in laws are enabling him. You need to figure out if you want your dignity or if you want your in laws. If your husband mistreats you this badly and your in laws just turn their head and welcome him home then those are in laws you don't NEED.

Don't take your kids there. I honeslty think you need to see a lawyer and sort out some visitation arrangements that minimize how often HE exposes himself to your children. And right now they are YOUR children. This guy is just one of those uncles that shows up with gifts and smiles and then dissappears. When you're a kid you think those people are cool. When you grow up you realize a spouse playing distance games is just exerting a ubiquitous form of abuse. Keep your kids away from that. It just enables him and exposes your kids to someone they don't need to learn from.

If you have to allow him rights to visit, then do it from your family's side. Find out what you HAVE to do legally first. But do NOT go through HIS family. THEY support HIM not you.

His family only support you while YOU support your HUSBAND's behaviour. THAT is family you don't need.

[ALJ]

Allen, you have described my H to a tee. All of these years that we have been together and I never saw how H was like a bully in our relationship. He has bullied me emotionally and has done a number on my confidance and I never realized it. H has never put me down or called me names but I see now that there is more than one form of emotional abuse. H has started to distance himself even more from me. We have not talked since he left except for him calling about a tax form that I needed. The conversation did not consist of anything else and H hurried up off of the phone.

I don't know if I should feel this way but his distancing is making me mad inside. Who does he think he is? Everytime I check his facebook status, he has some bacheloresque message stating "I feel like going out tonite, any suggestions? or "I just washed my car and now I am going to see what I can get into." Like he has no responsibilities and is as free as a bird.

I would like to send H that stand up letter tonight or tomorrow through e-mail. I might as well get ready for him getting mad but, like you said, I am just going to ignore it and try not let it bother me because he is used to me backing down from him. He thinks his silence toward me is supposed to make me keep my mouth shut and just accept his decision about deserting our marriage. I know this might sound trival but sending this e-mail is a big step for me. I am going outside of my comfort zone.

[Allen A]

Allen, you have described my H to a tee. All of these years that we have been together and I never saw how H was like a bully in our relationship. He has bullied me emotionally and has done a number on my confidance and I never realized it. H has never put me down or called me names but I see now that there is more than one form of emotional abuse. H has started to distance himself even more from me. We have not talked since he left except for him calling about a tax form that I needed. The conversation did not consist of anything else and H hurried up off of the phone.

I don't know if I should feel this way but his distancing is making me mad inside. Who does he think he is? Everytime I check his facebook status, he has some bacheloresque message stating "I feel like going out tonite, any suggestions? or "I just washed my car and now I am going to see what I can get into." Like he has no responsibilities and is as free as a bird.

I would like to send H that stand up letter tonight or tomorrow through e-mail. I might as well get ready for him getting mad but, like you said, I am just going to ignore it and try not let it bother me because he is used to me backing down from him. He thinks his silence toward me is supposed to make me keep my mouth shut and just accept his decision about deserting our marriage. I know this might sound trival but sending this e-mail is a big step for me. I am going outside of my comfort zone.

ALJ, it is good to hear your confidence come back. Fighting an affair does offer that benefit.

Concerns :

1. Legal concerns re child support
2. Legal concerns re visitation rights

If you haven't looked into this at all before you send this email you may want to do that.

If you to challenge your H you need to know your legal position HE likely does NOT know his. You need to know how far you can push him and what he can potentially do as a reaction.

I would reccomend you speak with a lawyer before sending the email.

[ALJ]

I have thought about the legalities of our situation regarding the kids but I haven't really looked into it. Right now, I wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer to look into these matters.

I talked with H today after he talked to the kids and, unlike his carefree facebook statuses, he sounds beaten down and stressed and he kept sighing, not really knowing what to say to me. I am sure his lack of money and inability to find a job is the cause of this. He has created a big mess of things but instead of trying amend our family and face reality, he will keep down this destructive path to prove his point of not wanting this marriage.

I am thinking that if I send this e-mail, H will read it and maybe raise a fuss and then debate his side how he feels about me and our marriage, feel even more guilty and ashamed, or he might even ignore it because he won't know how to respond to it. He is not in any position to challenge me on anything regarding the kids or child support. He does not have the funds to do so. Unless there is some place that offers free legal advice, I am limited in my actions when it comes to dealing with a lawyer. Should I still wait before I send the e-mail to him?

[Allen A]

In my area a lawyer will offer a one hour consult for free. I don't know if there is anything like that in your area.

You two are both not working right now, so legal-aid is a possibility?

I am thinking since finances are such a focus for him maybe we can add a paragraph in there that points out he's WASTING household funds by renting out under TWO ROOFS instead of just the one... something like that...

He sounds like he is a complete mess right now.. its hard to say how that email would be taken.

Right now I am a bit worried about YOU and how YOU will handle a BULLY in your HOME again if he DOES come back. What steps are you taking to train yourself to stand up to him 50 - 50?

Are you going to let him talk you down again if he confronts you in person when he's home?

Better question. Was he like this BEFORE the affair started, or is the bullying a symtpom of the affair?

[ALJ]

Now that you mention it Allen, I do remember MIL mentioning to me last year when we first separated that she used legal aid to serve separation papers to H's dad when H was just a little kid. She said she just got so fed up with H's dad attitude and treating her like she was doing something wrong when she was not. She told me how he would have these dark periods where he would not talk to her and would look at her like he hated her. For example, If my H, BIL, and SIL got up too early in the morning on a Saturday, FIL would go into one of his moods. Little things like that would trigger it. This went on for 10 years and then MIL got tired of walking on eggshells and dealing with his emotional turmoil and went to legal aid to file for a separation. FIL went to live with his parents but after 2 months, he begged to come back, saying that he could not live without his family and he did not know why he acted the way he did for so long. I guess they worked things out because MIL said that the next 6 years were the best years of their marriage before he died.

I can say that H did inherit those dark periods from his father where he acts like something is wrong with him and just goes into this shell and if I asked him "whats wrong or are you happy", he would just reply "nothing" or "If something is wrong then I would tell you". I was looking for reassurance from him about myself. Maybe that's why MIL said that the apple does not fall far from the tree. Well, I took these "dark periods" that H was experiencing, personal. I made sure to take the kids with me when I left the house and really did not bother him. I was not worried about him hurting the kids physically, he would never do that, I just didn't want to give him reason to be mad at me because I was leaving to do things for my grandmother and other family members and he always felt that he was put on the back burner(somewhat true). Unlike my MIL, I don't want to initiate a legal separation.

When I was speaking to H last night, I made the mistake of saying "you really don't care do you" to him. This was after I said that there were some things going on around here and he was just silent. He then said "what do you want me to say?" and "I already know about the bills and how things are bad financially." He then said something about me always mentioning about how there is not enough money to take care of the bills and things everytime he calls. Maybe I do but I don't recall doing that and I wasn't even referring to bills, I was going to mention how the kids are missing him. I try to keep the conversation on the kids and I guess I might mention bills to keep the conversation going and to not talk about me and us. I will admit, I miss him and when he calls I just want a sign from him that he somewhat still cares about me so I try to think of things to say or there will be silence and sighing from his side.

I understand what you mean about the adding the financial part to my e-mail to my H but he would probably say that the money coming out of our joint account for his bills is money that would have to be used to paid those bills regardless to if he lived here or not. That would be true because he only pays his car note, car insurance, and cell phone bill, things that would be paid out of our account regardless.

You know, I have never really thought about how to deal with H if he did come back. We have some serious communication issues that have to be dealt with regardless to what happens between us. Is there a step by step way that you deal with someone like my H? I just don't want things to turn into a debate with us. He is going to hold fast to his side and I will hold fast to mine and nothing will get accomplished or resolved between us because things will get swept under the rug.

H has always had bully qualities, even before we got married. The affair had nothing to do with it. The word "bully" had never crossed my mind when it came to H's behavior toward me and perhaps others. I just figured that that was the way H was and I can deal with it because I loved him and he had other qualities I liked about him.

[ALJ]

I also think that H might think that I am making a personal attack on him with the e-mail that I plan to send even though I consider it to be a protest against his affair. He might take it as a "kicking him when he is down" type e-mail. I really won't know until I send it.

[Allen A]

How your Husband feels about the email is irrelevant. This is about YOU speaking UP for YOURSELF and your CHILDREN. Again he has YOU fixated on HOW he is going to react... You are like a child walking aroudn the playground psyching yourself to stand up to the big bully... and you are so tense about how that's going to pan out...

Talk to a lawyer with legal aid then.

The financial thing he's just BS'ing you on.

You two don't have DIFFERENT finances. IF you are a COUPLE then its HOUSEHOLD income, period. It all goes in teh SAME BUCKET. There isn't a 'his money", "her money" and "our money".. its household funds.

If he is paying RENT to live under a separate roof that RENT money could go into a savings account for your kids education... its WASTED money becuase he can't egt his a$$ home and act like an adult.

This isn't an argument, its basic math. Couples don't have a his, hers, and hosueholds, funds, it is all the same money, you are a COUPLE... HE is just playing bachelor with household funds and getting away with it.

Your H is also picking fights about finances to avoid the elephant in the room. He's a bully my dear.

How you deal with that under the same roof?

Your HUSBAND needs to go to marital therapy and take some individual therapy to deal wiht his anger issues. He USES ANGER to CONTROL you and everyone else. This is how he gets what he wants.. he intimidates people into walking carefully around him and just catering to what he wants to avoid upsetting him further... its classic bullying.

However this guy appears to only bully women... which is worse.

Don't send the email until you get some legal advice.

[ALJ]

It has been a busy day for me but I really don't mind. If I sit around and do nothing, then I start to think about my sitch and all the problems that go along with it. Allen, now I see your point about the money H is spending on rent to live somewhere else. It is money that could be contributing to our household. I believe you pointed this out to me before and I apologize if you had to keep repeating this point to me. My mind gets scattered sometimes with the things that are going on.

Today, I went to finish up our taxes and found out that we owe the feds again so no refund this time :-(. I also tried to find out about legal aid and was told that I have to be one of the first three callers starting at 9am on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays, in order to talk to someone at the legal aid office. I called the Lawyers Project also and no one answered the phone so I left a message. Their message system stated that it might take a month for someone to call me back. I guess there is a lot of folk who needs legal aid these days because it sounds like it is going to be a wait in order for me to speak to someone regarding my situation.

The next order of business is finding a family therapist. I looked in the phone book and there is quite a few. How does one know who to call? I think there are some questions that you should ask them concerning infidelity in a marriage that I saw somewhere in the forum. I have to go back and see if I can find them. It will be a year on May 1st that H walked away. It feels like I have made no progress in my DB efforts. Maybe I am doing the wrong things. He seems so far gone in his mind, on a path to self destruction, and running faster and faster away from us.

I have made strides in trying to get my life together for myself and my kids. School is now finished for me and the next thing on my personal agenda is getting a job and getting more certifications under my belt. No one said it would be easy but all of the work that I am doing for myself will pay off eventually. Right now, I am all that my children have and can depend on when it comes to H and I. This is what keeps me going. Hope everyone is having a good day.

[Allen A]

I have made strides in trying to get my life together for myself and my kids. School is now finished for me and the next thing on my personal agenda is getting a job and getting more certifications under my belt. No one said it would be easy but all of the work that I am doing for myself will pay off eventually. Right now, I am all that my children have and can depend on when it comes to H and I. This is what keeps me going. Hope everyone is having a good day.

This IS part of DB efforts... putting effort into making YOURSELF a strong person who may WANT their marriage but doesn't NEED their marriage.

If you NEED your marriage, then you aren't db-ing very well.

Unless you are holding onto some childish fantasy of being rescued by a handsome prince... which I seriously doubt you would be naieve enough to plan for.

IF it takes a month,t hat's fine, the call is in, its starting these things that's improtant.. if it takes a month then that's fine. You are a busy woman so its not like you will be watching the clock right?

And ya, I mentioned about teh $$ before. Every dime he spends to maintain a life OUTSIDE the HOME (rent, phone bill, internet bill, TV, auto costs etc... all the things that you could SHARE without additional cost) is WASTED when he tries this lone wolf BS routine.

How much do you think he's spending a month to maintain himself excluding groceries? If you two shared a roof, his rent is then an eliminated cost, if you two shared a phone then the extra phone is an elimindated cost, if you two share internet and TV that cost eliminated, if you share a car, a HUGE cost is again eliminated (not gas, but insurance).

If you sat down and did the accounting for your monthly maintenance and his on a spreadsheet and did the math you will see how much money is wasted... you would have to split costs up into something that could be eliminated and not.

If he were living under your roof for example the additional groceries would still be needed for example...

I think you will see what I mean.. its just accounting, but you will see how much money is WASTED... or, can be SAVED if he was under the same roof.

THIS is the VERY REASON why a LOT of spouses who DO live under the same roof do NOT do full No contact and move out.... They claim it will COST so MUCH MORE...

Well, your H IS CONSUMING that cost NOW.

This BS about him doing EVERYTHING he CAN to support his kids is just THAT.. BS. His lone wolf game here is costing you hundreds a month!