Moved out to apartment, WAW moved back to house

[MrNiceGuy]

After a lunch with W where I stood up for myself and confidently stood my ground:

W e-mailed me to tell that I did come across as controlling, that she couldn't go to work today due to panic attacks, and is putting the house on the market and filing for separation.

We'll see how it plays out. Surprisingly, I'm not sad about it, only that she gives up so easily (give or take a few years, that is) after I stand up for myself.

[MrNiceGuy]

House is on the market.
Divorce has been filed.

I'm not scared at all, just want to make sure W and I will become friends once this is over for the benefit of our wonderful son.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi,

Very very Sorry things are going this way for you right now. Although I think you blew it, maybe it would have happened anyhow. BUT, Learn from what did not work, please. If not for this M, then for future interactions with someone special.

IN any case, things are going badly for your sitch at the moment. But guess what? It's not over til it's over - and even then it's not over. I have two relatives who divorced and remarried their ex's, although it took 5 years. Both couples say the 2nd time around was much better. Last year my uncle died of cancer, (after the reconciliation had lasted over a decade) and his wife and children were with him. Imagine if no reconciliation had happened. My cousin is still happily married to his wife, now going on 13 years. So that happens too.

I am not here to blast you with "I told you so's" about your efforts, but to encourage your own continuing efforts at GAL and being the man you want to be. Be a man only a fool would leave. Be a great dad. No healthy woman is unmoved by the loving interaction between her children and their father. (The only caveat to that is if there is a custody battle going on and she feels threatened. But you can allay those fears. Do so, for a 100 different reasons.)

Any discussions about the M and possible reconciliation, if they occur, should refer only to your own work on yourself. There is an unstated implication that the other party has their own stuff to work on and it is NOT necessary for you to say it out loud and it has not helped you at all. In fact, since her perspective is all that matters to HER, and she believes you were controlling and critical, any comment from you about what she has to work on will fuel her perceptions and help her justify her choices. Any disapproval or anger from you now will enable her to point out more "Evidence" of how right she is to be leaving. Your job is to counter those images and beliefs with positive ones of you being warm, upbeat, positive and losing ALL anger and justifications in front of her. (Sure, if she starts revising the marital history in your face you can CALMLY say "I don't recall it that way so we'll have to agree to disagree" and change the topic THEN.

But You know, being such a great catch and all, with your new improved self, will get her to see that your changes are real and that someone, someday is going to get the best out of you. If your changes are real and permanent, that can't help but bother her, b/c she'll think she invested in something and cashed out just as it was paying off, and NOW some bimbo OW gets the benefits of your improved self, after she went through all that "stuff" with you? MOST women would be bothered by that, even if they are with OM.

The time for your conditions and requirements of her, IF EVER, is aftershe decides to work on the M...I don't know why people don't get that from the DB books b/c it's IN there. Maybe b/c other theories get presented here and 180's come up, and we sometimes lose sight of the whole DB philosophy.
GAL means WE GAL for us, it does not mean we tell our WAS's what to do or what we need from them for US to GAL or be happy or to reconcile....we're improving ourselves b/c it's the healthy moral thing to do for our lives and as models for our children. The WAS can stay stuck in their ruts if they choose but it is hard for them to see you the same way, b/c you are no longer the same man. Do not tell her what she needs to work on or what to do or how you feel (that's a code word for permission to tell her what to do) just be your best and leave her choices to her. If you seem happy and like the great catch you are, she'll want what you have without you suggesting it. In fact, if you do suggest a thing, it'll be a turn off. Big time. Negates the whole GAL for US concept too.


I hope that things change around for you. I also hope you and some others here learn from this. I'm a woman so maybe it's just my take on this. But then you are married to women so our take should count too. I read a lot of men here writing about getting nuts and balls and standing up for themselves and sometimes, CERTAINLY in some of these cases, it is the thing to do. I've referred guys to other men for that type of advice myself. But maybe, just maybe, try to hear it from a woman. I mean, if it's other men telling you to get some nuts, that does count. A lot. I cannot tell you how to "man up" or be a man or whatever. But as a woman, I told you how I heard your conversation. And it turns out that your wife heard it the same way...but you continued in that vein. Why? You said It "felt good". Did it really? Why? B/c some of the guys egged you on and patted you on the back for it? Was it pride? And or the part of you that wanted to punish her for hurting you? We've all felt it. I have been there and said the words We might use, calling it "teaching WAS a lesson" or letting the WAS "face the consequences of their choices" and we mask what it really is, which is our pride, anger and desire to punish or hurt. In fact, I now see that when I say or think those phrases, and I'm not talking about a child I'm raising, those words are a flag that the behavior or comment I am about to make is a mistake. It is not coming from a healthy place, or a loving place, and it is not DBing.

I really pray that you and the guys who urged you on, learn from this.
We all have our biases so we have to watch that we don't project our own situations onto other couples. Or come from a place that is not healthy, loving or in line with DBing. There are alternate sites for other approaches. But have you read ALL of the DB books and her underlying philosophy? I'm just asking.

I still have hope for your sitch, btw. But you're at a crossroads with your attitude and this time. None of us knows what will make your wife return or if that is possible. But sometimes we know what will NOT make her come back...if something has not worked before, don't try it again. Do something different. For now, all you can do is choose between an approach of anger and battle, knowing the M will surely permanently end, and more damage will be done to all, and your R with her will suck, and more lasting damage will happen to the kids...

OR you can become the man you were meant to become anyhow. With no guarantees of her doing anything or reacting differently to you. But Your W WILL notice, no matter how hard she tries to hide that. She'll notice. But who knows what she'll do? I don't. I only know you'll be a better man, your R with her will be better than otherwise, and less damage to your children will happen, and they'll have a role model of what a strong, gracious man does when faced with a terrible blow to his heart. There won't be bitterness or criticism of their mother or a man who is self pitying and judgemental, or who holds onto his pain and the injustices he feels he's suffered. Instead, They'll see you heal, b/c your pain is not fatal, and they'll see you happy again, b/c your pain is not eternal. They MUST see these things b/c they will face heartbreak and setbacks in life and it will be YOU they think of as their role model when that happens. Think hard about what you want them to learn from this.

Good luck, seriously.

J-