Ok, even though I said I was going to take a break from the boards (which I am) I saw where my thread was locked so I thought I'd start a new one so it's out there.
Hello, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I am paranoid about posting on my own. I have a few questions because there are so many similarities between my situation and yours and would love to hear others thoughts.
What are we to do when, as you mentioned, they throw just enough crumbs out there to keep us dangling, but yet, no real progress is being made? My H says we are making "progress" yet he goes home to his own place every Sunday night and stays there through Wed-Thursday. During that time, our contact is extremely limited if not non-existent. No phone calls during the day, only talking if we absolutely have to. So he gets to live the single life 3-4 days a week and "play" family the rest. What is up with that? How in the world is that working on "us?" He says he's not ready to move back home because he thinks we aren't ready for that step and it sounds logical, but I feel us drifting farther apart, rather than getting closer through this arrangement. Because it seems to me the time apart serves to just drive us further apart and the time together brings us closer, but then he goes "away" and the cycle just starts over again. So no real steps towards reconciliation that I can see.
Is there a way to actually "detach" without completely letting go? I am really tired of feeling like I am doing all of the work in this R (I know so many here are too and have been at this much longer.) I am finding myself purposely not answering the phone or responding to texts. H does it to me all of the time and it HURTS. Why in the world if you are working on things with your W, would you not at least respond to a casual text? I am really feeling the need to detach myself, but I don't want to completely give up either? Has anybody successfully done this? How?
How to bridge the gap when both H and W have two very different idea of what it means to be working on things? I am sure my H thinks that by hanging out together we are working on this marriage. But we almost never talk about issues and he's seriously keeping me at arm's length. How can I get him to tear down the walls he's built up?
I believe my H is still having contact with another female (don't think she's OW yet), yet I have no hard core proof. The evidence is pretty good though. I find I am unable to address this directly with him, if there is one iota of a chance that I could be misconstruing things (unfortunately she's a person he could be legitimately having contact with although not as much as it appears he is (and I know they are good friends also). Unless caught in the act red-handed he has always been able to worm his way out and twist things around on me and make me out to be the bad guy. So how in the world can I address this? Without hard core proof? I already told him I am not comfortable with his hanging out with her and he agreed, but as far as I know they are still talking, plus I think he's seeing her in the "professional sense". And I know in his mind, that is perfectly acceptable and he will just make me out to be the bad guy.
How can a couple in this position possibly get on the same path?
Again, H4us, I am sorry to hijack. I just saw the comment about your W throwing out just enough to keep you dangling and I had to jump on here because it appears my H is doing the same thing. I really want to break this cycle. Thanks.
Why in the world if you are working on things with your W, would you not at least respond to a casual text?
Because he probably isn't (sincerely working on the marriage). As you describe it (and I haven't read your thread yet), it sounds like he's in an EA with this other woman, and he has the best of both worlds right now.
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What are we to do when, as you mentioned, they throw just enough crumbs out there to keep us dangling, but yet, no real progress is being made? My H says we are making "progress" yet he goes home to his own place every Sunday night and stays there through Wed-Thursday. During that time, our contact is extremely limited if not non-existent. No phone calls during the day, only talking if we absolutely have to. So he gets to live the single life 3-4 days a week and "play" family the rest. What is up with that?
Us humans are path-of-least-resistance creatures. We will do whatever is EASIEST, and whatever it is we're ALLOWED to do. Rarely will we push OURSELVES out of our comfort zones. In fact, it's a basic law of physics: "A body at rest tends to remain at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force." Right?
The contact with OW is either a dealbreaker for you or it isn't. If it IS, then I suggest you get proof, and deal with it accordingly.
Hi Puppy, thanks for your response. My thread is New Poster, Random thoughts. Do you have any idea on how to detach without completely letting go? I am finding this is the hardest for me right now.
The stuff with OW is tricky and I know I need to get proof, but I am not sure how because they also have a professional relationship. I cannot afford to hire a P.I.
You are right - he really isn't working on the R, but he thinks he is. We're at a roadblock. I know eventually I am going to have to put my foot down, but I feel like i need to give him a little more time to back up his words with actions. In the meantime, again, is it possible to detach at all?
H4U, sorry for the hijack, but it sounds like Newgal's thread may have been hacked, so I am going to answer her here.
Actually, Newgal, the two things you mention -- detachment and "snooping" -- were not at all unrelated for me. I found that by gathering the intel I needed, it was quite EASY to detach from my wife! In fact, I had a harder time still maintaining my LOVE for her after some of the things I saw and heard!
I too could not afford a PI. I did at one point use someone local, from another marriage message board, who helped me follow my wife and OM a couple of times, in exchange for me paying for her gas and giving her and her husband a gift card to an affordable restaurant when we were done. Money was very tight (still is!), and I also had no time nor inclination to drive myself nuts for 24 hours a day following her around and constantly checking up on her.
So I decided to let technology do it for me, and so I used:
- a voice-activated recorder Velcro'd underneath the front seat of her car (appr. $70);
- a pay-as-you-go cellphone from BoostMobile ($40 for the phone; and since I wasn't making any CALLS with it, no usage charges whatsoever) -- just a $4.99/mo. add-on called "MapQuest FindMe". I silenced all sounds on the phone and hid it in the trunk of her car, and I could then track her movements via the internet. The program even allows you to set up e-mail alerts when the phone comes within a defined distance (say, 100 yards) of a predetermined location (say, OM's house), and it worked VERY well, about 95% of the time.
- a keylogger on our home computer (less than $100) which allowed me to see who she's chatting with, what they're saying, the websites she visited, and which also picked up her logon/password combinations for her e-mail accounts.
Trust me, once you hear your beloved spouse having sex in the car with their OM/OW, it's not that hard to detach.
I would caution you two ways, however:
1) LEGALLY. You can only put a keylogger on a computer that YOU own, and you can only put a GPS in a car that YOU own or own jointly. Also, different states have different laws about recording conversations. Most of it is NOT admissable in family court, but that wasn't my intention anyway. My intention was to help form my decisions as to how hard I was going to fight for my marriage, and whether or not I was going to go for custody of our two sons. If their mother was behaving in a reckless manner, then I needed to know about it.
2) EMOTIONALLY. This sh&t is NOT easy to see/hear!!! If you don't think you can handle it, DON'T DO IT. DB says not to snoop, and even I don't think it's healthy to keep ON snooping once you know what the situation is. But as part of an overall plan to know what you're up against and deal with it accordingly, I found it incredibly useful, and I was even able to hear the things about the OM that pushed my wife away, and then counter them in my own dealings with her.
I hope that helps. I'll probably get blasted for all of this, but I have just never understood how it's a GOOD thing to have NO CLUE what's going on with something as important as your husband or wife, and -- indirectly -- your kids.
Hey Puppy thanks for the info. Actually, I think MY H may have put a keylogger onto my computer to see if I am checking up on him (or trying to anyway). He's very computer savy. And he has his own place, so I don't have access to his computer anyway.
I am so very sorry for the things you had to see and hear, that must have been beyond torturous for you and I am not sure I could stomach it. But you are right, knowing is better than not knowing as painful as it may be. Thanks again for all your help, and post an update on your situation when you can. Hugs.
Hey guys. Haven't posted in quite a while. Been VERY busy with work and purposefully staying away from DB as it helps me focus more on work and frankly, I just needed a break from the boards.
What's happened in the last 2.5 weeks? I've thought a lot about my sitch and what I want and what I need from W and how I'm going to proceed (my plan if you will).
I've done as you all have suggested. Started calling W when she cops an attitude with me. Happened 3 times in the last 3 weeks. EVERYTIME her attitude with me has changed, a couple of times within MINUTES.
Our new bed gets delivered next Tuesday. W is talking about it a lot, changing the bed room around etc.
W has been working A LOT. Close to 60 hour weeks. I've been picking up the slack around the house. Making dinners so they're ready when she gets home. Doing laundry and cleaning up the house.
W is really looking forward to a couple things. A week from Saturday we're going to see Lord of the Dance in Cleveland. I asked W if she wanted to get a hotel and spend the night and she said YES! This was one of the things I called her on. We've seen the different Irish Dance shows 4-5 times in the past and have really enjoyed them. I saw LOTD was performing on the 14th so I got some tickets. I surprised W with them and all she said was "I saw on t.v. they were playing". That's it. The next day I told her (don't remember the exact words) that I thought it was crap that she couldn't even say thanks or that sounds like fun or anything like that. Within minutes she was smiling and laughing and really engaging me. And since she's been mentioning the show on a regular basis, so I know she's excited.
In a couple weeks, one of the guys who works for me is getting married. We're going to the wedding and spending the night as it's out of town. A few nights ago W started asking me who was going to be there and did she need to dress up or was business casual ok and I told her it was casual. She was excited because this gives her a chance to go buy a new top to go with the only dress slacks that she has that fit (hasn't needed casual clothes since she lost all the weight). She's also been in contact with our friend D who lives near where the wedding is. We're going to go spend part of the evening with D and her H either before or after the reception. This is good.
One morning a week or so ago, the roads were bad and I had seen that some schools were delaying around us. W came into the bedroom to get ready and I said "hey, some schools are delaying" and she replied "yeah", but then she added "and closing" which I didn't hear. A few minutes later I saw some closings (including S16's school) and I said to W "hey, schools are closing also" and she got snotty with me and said "I TOLD YOU THAT". I looked right at her and said in a stern voice "I apologize for not hearing you" and I walked out of the room. About 5 minutes later she came downstairs and was the nicest person to me you've ever seen.
Like I said, she's been really busy with work and she's still be IM'ing me all the time, calling when she has a chance, TM'ing me other times. It's almost kind of annoying.
And yesterday there was an IM exchange that was very telling for me. She had made some comment to me as I was having a pretty bad day at work. It was a nice comment reminding me that I need to control my voice tone on the phone with my subordinates because even if they can't see your face, they can hear the tone of your voice. I told her "You're so smart, thanks for the tip" and that started her into how she didn't like the fact that she felt like I was playing her trying to make her think she's smart, etc. I didn't respond. About 5 minutes later she IM'd me and asked "did I make you mad" I replied "no, not mad. It just bugs me that you can't accept that I KNOW you're smart and I value your opinions and if you think I'm playing you because I thank you for reminding me of things, then I don't know what else to say". And she was the nicest, most talkative thing you've ever seen the rest of the day and evening.
So that tells me that she isn't trusting the changes I've been working on. It also tells me she thinks I'm just doing this stuff to trick her back into the marriage. NO, not tricking her back into the marriage. Changing for ME. If she wants to ride along, great. If not, oh well.
She also has been making comments about buying a new car. The first couple times I just listened and didn't respond. The other day I told her "I have heard you when you say you want a new car. I just have a lot of thinking to do and we can talk about it soon.
This works on two levels. One, it's got to be making her think I'm not sure if we're going to be together long enough to buy a new car together and two, shows her that I'm listening to her.
And this car is going to be my opening to start at least a small R talk. At some point in the next few days I'm going to tell her that I've thought about it and I just don't think it's a wise thing to be going into more debt with the economy the way it is and not knowing if we'll even be together in 6 months and not knowing if I could afford it if we weren't. I'm going to tell her that I'm struggling to keep us a float as it is, and I just don't think it's the smart thing to do when as it stands now, I could be trying to make things work on one income.
Let the conversation flow from there. If she goes there I'm just going to tell her it seems like we're making progress, but I've got to be planning my life by myself until I know for sure that we've at least got a future where she's TRYING. And if she says "I am trying" I'm going to then tell her I recognize she's trying in her own way, but that there are things I NEED also and if she can't or won't help me with those, I just don't see a future for us.
And then it's up to her.
Ok, this was long. But it's been a while since I posted. Not posting every day seems to help me focus on work and just being the best I can at home. So I think I'll keep it up for a while, not posting as much.
Thanks for listening.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
She also has been making comments about buying a new car. The first couple times I just listened and didn't respond. The other day I told her "I have heard you when you say you want a new car. I just have a lot of thinking to do and we can talk about it soon.
This works on two levels. One, it's got to be making her think I'm not sure if we're going to be together long enough to buy a new car together and two, shows her that I'm listening to her.
VERRRY well-done, H4U!!!
I'm glad that you're calling her on her b.s., and not at ALL surprised that it's working with her. Keep it up!
