All though this is my first post, I've been lurking here for about 4 months. I've read DB and reading DR. Here is a quick synopsis of my sitch:
M 16 years Dated 2 years before 2 kids DD-11, DS-4 H-42 W(me)-41 D-Day 7/2004 * 6mnths pregnant H – online EA starting in Aug. 2003, spent 1 month with her while in another state with service. Returned home @ Thanksgiving, continued contact with her. Went back for another voluntary 2 weeks of service which he spent with her. In between the 2 visits, I got pregnant with DS. I never knew anything was wrong. OWH contacted me in July of 2004 and dropped the bomb. OWH said that OW was pregnant with WH child but lost it. I have emails and chats that support this. WH said she was just trying to keep him hooked in and that it later turned to blackmail, although I don’t see any evidence of that. TRICKLE TRUTH to the point that I still don’t believe I know everything.
He went NC with her. MC for 1 year. Thought things could get better. He tried, not to the level I expected. I was already damaged goods, as my parents split up over infidelity, and I don’t speak to my own father. He came from a family where they do not show or verbalize love, although his family is very religious and intact.
3 years since then, a lot has changed. I’ve lost 40 lbs, been spending a lot of time with my best friend (we both have bad marriages and her husband and mine have been best friends since college), I turned 40, and got outsourced from a job that I had almost 20y ears tenure with. I can see that I have been pulling away from him for quite awhile as I think he has lost any motivation to work on making the marriage better. As a result, I’ve become even more angry and bold with my statements to him as well as my actions. FF to 4 months ago, he all the sudden tells me that we should separate. I got the ILYBINILWY. He starts to look for a place to live. I start DB and GAL and 180. He tells me he has to find his own path, so I say he has to leave.
He has been gone for 4 months. Within the past 2 weeks he says he loves me and wants to come home and misses me and the kids. Says he thought I was just not in the R anymore and was coming to grips with that. Now he knows I am committed.
So here I am and I've been reading the SSM post and am wondering if this is really our issue.
Before we were married and in the beginning of marriage, we were very sexually active but never "verbal" about things. As time went on, work, children, school, etc. our sex life dwindled to next to nothing, then the A on his part. After the A and MC, it got better but again it dwindled to next to nothing. Then the separation.
Now I see I have another chance to reconcile our R but H seems very "stand offish" regarding being intimate (even kissing me). Granted, he has only been home for a little over a week but I am wondering if I should initiate? Or would that come off as looking desparate.
Also, we have both been VERY RESERVED in this department, so I think I need to work on that as well but don't know where to start.
How you proceed depends a lot upon the (probably tense) dynamic that you now have with your husband, your past sexual history together, and how he is 'as a man' sexually.
My first thought is that it *might* be a good idea for you to work towards reawaken THE CHASE in your sexual relationship. That is, turn on your femininity and entice him --> don't chase him, but make sure that he gets the picture that YOU are wanting to be chased....and eventually caught. You are taking on a distinctly feminine role, while encouraging him to take on a distinctly masculine role in this: this can be playful, fun, and emotionally satisifying for the both of you --> it reawakens some deep primal desires that most all of us have. THE CHASE is a game that no couple should ever stop engaging in, no matter how long they've been married, but something that most couples stop doing despite the fact that we continue to *dream* about it -- the woman with their romance movies and novels, and the men with their 'action' (guy-kicks-ass-and-gets-the-girl) movies and novels.
Now, it may be that it has been so long since either of you have engaged in this boy-chases-girl 'game' that he may just give you that "Who are you and what have you done with my wife?" look and balk at the notion of pursuing you. Give it some time, and try to have fun with it. A HUGE, huge part of sexuality is building and maintaining a *close frienship* with your partner, and being able to flirt and just have fun with it is an important component.
If you have been in a long term SSM, then his 'sexual self-confidence' may be flagging, and when he looks at you sexually, he may even feel old bitterness and resentment, rather than desire right now. If that's the case, then reestablishing the close friendship and rebuilding a strong emotional bond first may be necessary. Rewind the clock, as it were, to your early dating days before there was a sexual relationship and proceed from there: become friends first, then lovers when the time is right. In essense, I am advising you to go back to the courting phase of your relatiohship with your H --> that is where you are right now after the years of estrangement and separation. Keep yourself attractive and interesting, become his closest friend, and when you think you're ready, flirt with and entice him into rebuilding the physical relationship again.
I would NOT advise trying to tumble an angry bull into bed right now, unless you feel deeply that it will have a very positive result. More likely, he may engage with you, but then afterwards feel very guilty or even angry --> as if he had just engaged in a one-night-stand with someone with whom he does not (yet) feel *emotionally* intimate. And whether we men admit it or not, that emotional connection is an important component of sex: for sex to really work, it has to be there.
How does this sound? I may be total off-base, trying to gage your situation from a single post, but hopefully this will get the discussion rollowing and more folks chiming in.
Best regards,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I think you may be right on the money with both of your ideas.
This, I think, is what is happening right now: "If you have been in a long term SSM, then his 'sexual self-confidence' may be flagging, and when he looks at you sexually, he may even feel old bitterness and resentment, rather than desire right now."
My concern is that I just don't know if I can go back to that place. I've been trying to remember "how I was back then" and all I can come up with that is different is we have kids and other responsibilities, now. Back then, when we were dating, it was just us having fun and doing whatever we want. I would love nothing more than to feel "free" like that again but the fact of the matter is we have 2 kids, a home, jobs, etc. and someone has to be the responsible one in the R. He, at least right now, is not.
I also feel kind of resentful toward him, so its really hard to be his "friend" right now. I have been trying to not nag, be positive, ask him about his day, saying thank you when he does things for me, but its like trying to be friends with your enemy and I am a terrible liar.
You also talk about "THE CHASE". I don't even know what that looks like. I've already lost 40lbs and the smallest I have ever been, I've been keeping up with my looks better, dressing nicer, doing the GAL thing, even before he said anything about separating, so I don't even know what to do that would initiate this.
Hi DugIn, If you have read my posts you know that part of reestablishing a M is getting past the resentment. It took some time but as I would look at my W, every now and then I would see glimpses of what I liked so much about her. Just looking at her when she doesn't know it.
Also one of the first M help books I read didn't teach you how to talk your way through fixing your marriage, it was about doing the small things to show that you love and care for them. Getting him a cup of coffee, touching his hand while sitting together, etc. It may help you get past those feelings of resentment, I know it did for me. Pursuit can then come when it feels right again.
Back then, when we were dating, it was just us having fun and doing whatever we want. I would love nothing more than to feel "free" like that again but the fact of the matter is we have 2 kids, a home, jobs, etc. and someone has to be the responsible one in the R. He, at least right now, is not.
You can just about see the resentment dripping off the above statement. And if you want to restore a high degree of emotional and physical intimacy to your relationship, then you'll probably have to start with the above disparity. You'll need to restore the sense of teamwork, the sense that you're both 'in this together' and both of you are doing your respective parts. You aren't going to be able to entice him into chasing you again, until you want to be chased yourself.
First, have you tried talking to him, quietly and calmly about this? Have you told that you feel overwhelmed, that it's all on your shoulders, and that you need his help and support?
Second, is it possible for the two of you to get into marriage counseling? It makes a difference if an outside party tells hims he needs to do more around the house, with the kids, with other responsibilities: he might listen to them, while if YOU do it, you get labeled as a 'nag.'
And third, a couple of books: In addition to Michele's SSM book, I'd also recommend looking over John Gray's Why Mars and Venus Collide. He has some other good books (and some not so good), but this probably applies to your current situaiton the most.
In other words, DugIn, your current lack of sexual intimacy is probably a symptom of deeper issues in your relationship -- and the resentments that go with those issues. I don't know if it is the right thing or not for you to try and 'jump-start' the sexual intimacy before the other issues have at least started to be addressed. In order to --sustain-- a healthy sexual relationship, those issues will have to be addressed.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
1) Yes we have talked recently about him needing to step up around the house. He has agreed and has been doing some more things around that I have noticed and have thanked him for.
2) When we talked I said that he needed to come to counciling with me. That it was a requirement. He doesn't necessarily believe in it. He says "been there done that; it doesn't help". I have an appt set for this Saturday but he hasn't indicated that he is going or not and, to my surprise yesterday, has made plans to do something with his friend on Saturday.
3) I will check out the books you recommended. I still have to finish DR and a couple others
we had a big fight last night and I haven't heard from him since. I sent him an email apologizing for my angry outburst but I needed some issues addressed.
We have always had problems where I have an issue and bring it up; He doesn't take it seriously or thinks its not that big a deal; then I get angry trying to make my point; then he uses that as "I am always angry" and claims that that is one of the reasons he left.
I see that I have to control my anger and I have been working on it with my IC but there were several issues that were eating at me this week. I was trying to let them go but a couple were really "big" to me. I tried journaling and yelling in the car and talking to friends but my anger got the better of me last night.
I am now just sitting on eggshells wondering if he is going to leave again.
I see that we both have "resentment" with each other. I just don't know if either of us can get over them.
Hey friend...just checking on your thread to see how things are going. You are doing wonderful. You are seeing that anger is a big obsticle with connecting on an intimate level. You will get there, it just takes time and work.
Looking forward to you moving your post to reconciliation!
Broken Hearted ------------------ Me - 36 H - 37 S - 8 Married - 1992 ILYNILWY - August 2007 Moved Out - March 2008 OW Revieled - May 28, 2008 Filed for D - July 2, 2008
could you point me to some of your posts regarding the resentment?
Dugin - Sorry I missed your post asking about where in my thread I talk about getting past resentment. Here's a post to get you started. You can read a few posts below it where I repaired a vanity of my wife's and wrote her a letter about what it meant for me/us to repair it for her.
Like you I would get very angry and until I read SSM. I never realized how much of my anger was from resenting her for not seeming to care. Now I know she never realized that I was hurting so much inside from being rejected over and over. She did not know until I told her. To be rejected like that felt like she no longer loved me.
Unless we tell them how we are hurting inside, make them understand that we want to touch and be touched, they won't know. It all starts with showing them affection instead of anger.
Unless we tell them how we are hurting inside, make them understand that we want to touch and be touched, they won't know. It all starts with showing them affection instead of anger. Cinco
Cinco, From what I read so far, I sound alot like your w and you sound alot like my H. That being said, the diff right now between you and my H is that he has not acknowledge that we have a SSM and that that is one of the reasons we are in the sitch that we are. You seem to have found this place on your own, in an attempt to try to R your M.
Let me run this by you (hope its not TMI and I am using some very generic verbage, so PM me if you don't understand): (****THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE ML SINCE HE RETURNED HOME 2 WEEKS AGO) So, we get up yesterday morning, I was up first (always am) I got kids up and made coffee. Everyone comes down. H gives me a kiss, I get DD on the bus. DS wants me to take him to school so I agree. Throw on some sweats and take him up there. I go back to the house. H is in bed, he had all the pillows arranged so I could be closer to him. So I get in. It was awkward. We watch the news for awhile. He rubs my neck a little. So, basically we do what we normally do. Although he usually has more "control" over things, so that we are both satisfied. Not this time, although, ummm, things did not stay as "firm" as usual.
So that was it, I was not, umm, satisfied, so I, umm, try something else that usually helps, especially on a second try. And it did, temporarily, again not as umm, "solid" as usual. Luckily it didn’t take long for me to, ummm, "enjoy" things but that was it. Then it went completely, umm, flaccid.
So, I am perplexed. He has RARELY had issues like this, although, the last few times before he left, he had similar issues and I was like, WTF? Not very sympathetic about it. But let me say this, I can't help but feel inadequate about this. And, of course, there is the spector of "possible OW I am competing with". His claim yesterday was that he was "out of practice" and "out of shape".
So I don’t really know how to handle this. I did not push him about why it happened. I want it to be as good as it used to be. I suppose there could be many things at play here: Age (he just turned 43), confidence, the "out of practice" and "out of shape".
Cinco, He has not told me he is hurt in this "department", do you think I should ask him about it or would that offend him more? Or should try being more "loving" toward him?
