losing sunshine but gaining happiness either way

[LosingSunshine]

So, W came home around 915 last night. She was supposed to be home for dinner but wasn't. Another ride home from daycare with the kids wondering where mommy was and if she'll be home.

So she came home and we talked out on the back deck until the storms came and finished up inside. I wanted to talk about what she said on Saturday and was somewhat delighted that she did too. It turns out that she had been approved for a nice townhouse that is designated for low-income families in a nice neighborhood just a few miles north of where our house is. She is signing the lease today and will be moving stuff out Friday.

So I listened, validated, shared my feelings, listened to hers etc...I told her how happy I am that she found something that she liked. Just in general pleasant conversation until the kids came up. I stood my ground and said that we need to do what is best for the kids to get them comfortable with how things will be in a few weeks etc...We need to smoothly transition them. She agreed but at the same time feels that I am trying to deny them time with her. I also reminded her that we are dealing with two realities; what we want and the legal side. We ended the conversation about her moving out and I agreed to think about what she would like to do with transitioning the kids and told her that I can't agree to anything until my L says okay. Also, she said she will instruct her L to call mine today to get the whole custody/residency ball moving.

After talking about her moving out and coming to agreement about smoothly transitioning things with the kids, I had a good opportunity to do some DBing as we talked about us, her and I. She admitted that I am a completely different person and she has noticed the positive changes that I have made. I probably talked a little too much at that point about some things but I haven't had the opportunity to express my feelings and emotions and she wanted to hear them. I also asked her what could I change about me...and she had to think hard because of all of my changes. She finally came up with me becoming a more empathetic listener. I jokingly said okay but you don't get credit for that as I am already working on that and it is a longer process as I am a man and need to rewire my brain. We also talked about our past, our intimacy (lack thereof), how we communicated in the past, all sorts of things. She also apologized again for allowing herself to become very numb to the marriage, for saying things to mask her pain, and for not outing the problems correctly sooner. She said she needs alone time to really think things through and sort out her problems and issues.

Towards the end of the conversation, the talk was going well enough and we were talking compassionately about things that I took the opportunity to hold her finger with mine. As soon as I did it, she said we are not getting back together. I responded I know that is what you feel and I understand. Now the strange thing is she didn't pull away. I was able to hold her finger for several moments. We also had several moments where we were just looking into each others eyes.

We both agreed that the talk was nice and it was the first time we actually talked, as opposed to telling each other things, in a long long time. We also agreed to talk more tonight and drive by the t/h she'll be renting.

At one point, I actually got the feeling that she understood that the problems are fixable and eventhough there was a lot of drinking early in the R and M, we had plenty of good times together. She even brought up several instances/things we used to do and we both agreed that we allowed ourselves to get into a rut this past year and a half.

So, more DB'ing tonight, if the plans don't change. As I posted in my last post, since she is moving out, my DB approach will need to change slightly to accomodate the sitch.

I am probably leaving out a lot as I only got about 5 hours sleep last night and I am tired this morning. I guess in short, it was positive, good DB'ing on my part, she's still holding some things back and is somewhat scared, but needs the alone time to sort things out. Can't agree with her more, there.

Chris

[ernest88]

This is good Chris. Keep going.

I took the liberty of popping over to Sandi's thread and asking her to come back. I hope you don't mind.

Sandi is experienced. Sandi was an almost WAW.

[LosingSunshine]

Mike, do not at all. I do really appreciate her advice as well as everyone else's. Her insight has been truly helpful over the past month or so.

Update. So, my W called her L this morning and left a message regarding what we had talked about last night, and had been discussing regarding the 50/50 custody and residency. Well, L calls back and says she won't call my L and then pretty much convinced my W that I am being manipulative, don't want to pay C/S and that 50/50 is not best for their kids given their age. I tried talking some sense into her and we will be discussing things tonight but, basically, as my L said, it's GAME ON.

The response is being drafted that is basically going to fire a flare across the bow saying, nope...I have been the primary caregiver, according to the statute that governs temporary custodianship and we have proof! Now, we have a good idea that her L has no idea what has been going on as my L has never seen any client of her L act like this. If anything, she would have been advised to stay home, get me into a confrontation so a PO could be issued. Ugh!

Also, her texts are being subpeonaed (subpeona being drafted right now and will be faxed today) - helps that her phone was under my name up through 7/10. Heck, from the sounds of it, they are going to subpeona the messages after 7/10. And this is just the start of the business end. Gripes!

Also, if she does take the kids on Saturday and not return them as she says, we will file an emergency motion on Monday. The fun begins and she has no understanding of the legal process. Heck, she even asked me what will happen during the motion hearing on 8/14 and I said that the judge will look at the facts, look at the law governing temporary custodianship and issue a ruling unless we agree otherwise. She didn't read the f'ing papers she had issued to me.

I am really miffed right now. She thinks I am being manipulative because I am trying to look after what I believe is best for the kids.

Fighting for my time with my kids and searching for the inner strength and grace from God to keep them the central focus of every decision that will be made in the coming weeks.

In anycase, at least I have a few hours to decompress before we start reviewing the state guidelines regarding custody and take a ride to see her new place. Not only do I need to do my very best DB'ing tonight, but I also need to figure out how to get her to believe I am not being manipulative.

[Forrest Gump]

"So, my W called her L this morning and left a message regarding what we had talked about last night, and had been discussing regarding the 50/50 custody and residency. Well, L calls back and says she won't call my L and then pretty much convinced my W that I am being manipulative, don't want to pay C/S and that 50/50 is not best for their kids given their age. I tried talking some sense into her and we will be discussing things tonight but, basically, as my L said, it's GAME ON."

And usually a 50/50 split of the children will effect the support payments. Looking at it from the other L's side.. it is easy to say.. no you need to press for full custody.. that way you get more support. Again.. the L is a extension of you.. but they have their wallets to look after to.. and they want to make sure you get all you can. Even if your wife said heck no.. the L will push for more than the client wants. And they will usually convince the client.. it is in their best interest.. any way they can. Play the game.. just don't let it get out of hand.. it is really hard to do all the L stuff.. and be nice about it.

"The response is being drafted that is basically going to fire a flare across the bow saying, nope...I have been the primary caregiver, according to the statute that governs temporary custodianship and we have proof!"

That is solid protect yourself..

"Also, her texts are being subpeonaed (subpeona being drafted right now and will be faxed today) - helps that her phone was under my name up through 7/10. Heck, from the sounds of it, they are going to subpeona the messages after 7/10. And this is just the start of the business end. Gripes!"

Depending on the cell carrier.. all this will likely detail is who she was texting.. not what was said. Last I checked.. about 2 months ago.. AT&T was about the only company keeping a log of texts.. and it was.. not that accurate. There is a lot of discussion about this between L's.

"Heck, she even asked me what will happen during the motion hearing on 8/14 and I said that the judge will look at the facts, look at the law governing temporary custodianship and issue a ruling unless we agree otherwise. She didn't read the f'ing papers she had issued to me."

I gotta expect.. your wife is just "along for the ride" here. She has placed her "life" in the hands of this L and is expecting them to do the right thing. This is not always a smart choice. She may regret it.. you just make sure you don't regret any decisions you and L make.

"Not only do I need to do my very best DB'ing tonight, but I also need to figure out how to get her to believe I am not being manipulative."

The way you show up as not manipulative.. is make sure you are clear with how things are going to go. Make sure and ask the L what you can.. and can't talk about. Tell her within the confines of the L's rules.. what is going on.

You must be clear.. and concise.. did you get a notepad? And are you writing stuff down?

[LosingSunshine]

Thanks FG for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated. It's definitely been a roller coaster of a couple of days. Actually felt good this morning and then all of this happened. Getting collected and it is no longer bothering me. Looking forward to hanging with the kids and W tonight, seeing her new t/h and talking about things.

And usually a 50/50 split of the children will effect the support payments. Looking at it from the other L's side.. it is easy to say.. no you need to press for full custody.. that way you get more support. Again.. the L is a extension of you.. but they have their wallets to look after to.. and they want to make sure you get all you can. Even if your wife said heck no.. the L will push for more than the client wants. And they will usually convince the client.. it is in their best interest.. any way they can. Play the game.. just don't let it get out of hand.. it is really hard to do all the L stuff.. and be nice about it.

I am finding out that the L stuff is less than comforting and and impacting my anxiety level but dealing with it and keeping a PMA. I have the tough little cookie in town, my W has the daughter of the bulldog. Each are fighting for the most right now. Her L will get a surprise when she sees our response.

Depending on the cell carrier.. all this will likely detail is who she was texting.. not what was said. Last I checked.. about 2 months ago.. AT&T was about the only company keeping a log of texts.. and it was.. not that accurate. There is a lot of discussion about this between L's.

I am with verizon and they told me that they will only release the content of the text via a subpeona. It's on the way. Txts between W and OW should make for either very boring or juicy reading for me and the L. Should also corroborate my notes about her not being around for the past 40 days.

I gotta expect.. your wife is just "along for the ride" here. She has placed her "life" in the hands of this L and is expecting them to do the right thing. This is not always a smart choice. She may regret it.. you just make sure you don't regret any decisions you and L make.

What's interesting is everytime she meets with L, she changes her mind and continues to move forward with what L says. Of course, L most likely does not know entire story and will definitely be taken by surprise. Also, I am learning the hard way that WAWs do not hear what LBS say. Regret is something I am not struggling with as I am keeping my focus on the kids and have been since the sitch began, along with focusing on changing me for the positive. I do not regret anything up to this point, that my L will be doing to give me a fighting chance at custody. I also don't regret securing the only people in our town (all of our family are out of state) that can speak to our parenting abilities (they will be needed if a home evaluation takes place - no family please as they are biased). L said you are now thinking correctly. W will only have OW to speak to parenting ability. Not good.

The way you show up as not manipulative.. is make sure you are clear with how things are going to go. Make sure and ask the L what you can.. and can't talk about. Tell her within the confines of the L's rules.. what is going on.

I have done this she is just not listening. She doesn't understand the reality of the situation. I can only believe she is getting poor advice from OW/friends, poor advice from L if L doesn't know what's going on. I have stated to her what I want and what I think is best for me and the kids. She has stated what she wants and thinks is best for the kids and we both agree. She talks with her L. No agreement and back to the drawing board.

What I can't talk about, our gameplan. What we know. What we are doing outside of the fact that our response will be filed. W has no idea what my L is doing to get me full temporary custody and possibly permanent. I won't say. I will discuss with her tonight the state guidelines on custody etc...but they are guidelines, not rules/laws.

You must be clear.. and concise.. did you get a notepad? And are you writing stuff down?

I am writing stuff down and keeping a daily log in a spreadsheet. I send an updated copy to my L everytime I see her. The notes are more detailed than the first few weeks but no problem she said. Txt messages will corroborate it anyway. Good notes. L said notes are gold.

[Forrest Gump]

"I am finding out that the L stuff is less than comforting and and impacting my anxiety level but dealing with it and keeping a PMA. I have the tough little cookie in town, my W has the daughter of the bulldog. Each are fighting for the most right now. Her L will get a surprise when she sees our response."

It will happen.. just going to the office brings up stuff.. I know. Just keep in mind... its not a fight to the death.. and both of you are going to come out of this with some more hurt feelings. It's that fine line of Life.. keep your head about you.. and try to do what is best. Don't let the Emotion drive.. as hard as that will be.

"I am with verizon and they told me that they will only release the content of the text via a subpeona. It's on the way. Txts between W and OW should make for either very boring or juicy reading for me and the L. Should also corroborate my notes about her not being around for the past 40 days."

I hope there is something useful in it.. One of the things my L was going to use was some of the texts to.. make her case against wife.. I wasn't so sure I wanted to prove she was a bad person.. I just wanted to make sure I was protected. Proving she is having a relationship.. whatever it may be.. can benefit you.. at the same time it has the side effect of pointing a finger and saying.. see I knew you were bad. We all make bad choices.. someone pointing them out.. in public.. can lead to a lot of hurt and resentment. A lot of people take the hard line with this stuff.. just make sure whatever you do.. you are happy with it.

"What's interesting is everytime she meets with L, she changes her mind and continues to move forward with what L says. Of course, L most likely does not know entire story and will definitely be taken by surprise. Also, I am learning the hard way that WAWs do not hear what LBS say. Regret is something I am not struggling with as I am keeping my focus on the kids and have been since the sitch began, along with focusing on changing me for the positive. I do not regret anything up to this point, that my L will be doing to give me a fighting chance at custody. I also don't regret securing the only people in our town (all of our family are out of state) that can speak to our parenting abilities (they will be needed if a home evaluation takes place - no family please as they are biased). L said you are now thinking correctly. W will only have OW to speak to parenting ability. Not good."

I like the tone of that post there.. I think you are understanding what I am saying about what to do. I am a "softee" when it comes to this stuff.. other people may disagree.

"I have done this she is just not listening."

Look as long as you are being honest.. and keeping her as informed as you can.. who's fault is it if she gets "run over"? There will come a time down the road.. when she is thinking more clearly.. then when she looks back.. what will she see? Just because she does not hear you now.. does not mean you should not "Act as if".

"L said notes are gold."

I knew that.

I think you are walking tall in a hard place.. just keep your head up.. and think as clearly as you can.

[LosingSunshine]

keep your head about you.. and try to do what is best. Don't let the Emotion drive.. as hard as that will be.

Doing the best I can and it's amazing that I am not letting emotion drive right now, as hard as it is to control it. can't say the same about W.

I hope there is something useful in it.. One of the things my L was going to use was some of the texts to.. make her case against wife.. I wasn't so sure I wanted to prove she was a bad person.. I just wanted to make sure I was protected. Proving she is having a relationship.. whatever it may be.. can benefit you.. at the same time it has the side effect of pointing a finger and saying.. see I knew you were bad. We all make bad choices.. someone pointing them out.. in public.. can lead to a lot of hurt and resentment. A lot of people take the hard line with this stuff.. just make sure whatever you do.. you are happy with it.

Like you, I don't want to prove that she is either a bad person, confused, emotionally unstable whatever. I want to fight for what is best for my kids. At the worst, these texts will independently validate my notes. At best, who knows.

I like the tone of that post there.. I think you are understanding what I am saying about what to do. I am a "softee" when it comes to this stuff.. other people may disagree.

Thanks! It's a fine line to walk, managing the business side. It's even harder to focus on DB'ing while enmeshed with the business side. Softee or not, starting from a position of strength is far better than trying to fight our way up hill. I believe I will regret not allowing my L to give me a fighting chance. Also, cards are being held very very close. No peaking by the other side, LOL!

Look as long as you are being honest.. and keeping her as informed as you can.. who's fault is it if she gets "run over"? There will come a time down the road.. when she is thinking more clearly.. then when she looks back.. what will she see? Just because she does not hear you now.. does not mean you should not "Act as if".

Exactly my thoughts. Thinking about the "act as if". I think I get it.

If you have a clear head, are able to be honest, know what you want..there shouldn't be any issues. She's not there. She's amazed that I am where I am all things considered. She's lost, vunerable, scared, afraid you name it. She doesn't want to lose her kids. They are the world to her as they are to me. She doesn't understand the legal aspect of all of this. She's still in la la land. Now, I must admit, that when we do talk, eventhough I am not hinting about what my L knows and what my L is doing, I am taking the position with her to keep this from blowing up. She's not listening and doesn't want the win win that we can accomplish. She'll end up with the win lose combo courtesy her L.

"L said notes are gold."

I knew that.

I think you are walking tall in a hard place.. just keep your head up.. and think as clearly as you can.

Thanks. The gold will be trimmed with platinum maybe. L is game on. It's easy walking tall, and keeping my head up. Heck, even easy to think clear. Not so easy dealing with emotions but have ways to cope and deal and get back on the PMA.

Thanks again FG!!!

[Phoenixdeux]

She doesn't want to lose her kids. They are the world to her as they are to me.

Second only to the relationship with OW. Her relationship with the kids has suffered as a result of what she's doing.

I think you are doing the right thing in defending yourself and your kids. None of this means your marriage is dead and buried, just that your are trying to preserve something to come back to.

[stubborn]

I do agree Sandi, don't leave just because I found your word choices problematic. It wasn't a "slap" more a nudge to be aware that certain words don't really describe "lives" correctly. You did hit a hot button with me and I apologize if my reaction seemed harsh. In retrospect let's substitute "troubling" for "repulsive" and call it a day.

I actually agree with most of what you said to Chris but the part about "choice, and lifestyle" got in my eye first. I think you don't really mean "convert" in this case, you probably mean "seduce". Potato/Potahto.

Don't leave on account of me because you have another useful unique perspective. Surely there's room for all?

[ernest88]

I do agree Sandi, don't leave just because I found your word choices problematic. It wasn't a "slap" more a nudge to be aware that certain words don't really describe "lives" correctly. You did hit a hot button with me and I apologize if my reaction seemed harsh. In retrospect let's substitute "troubling" for "repulsive" and call it a day.

I actually agree with most of what you said to Chris but the part about "choice, and lifestyle" got in my eye first. I think you don't really mean "convert" in this case, you probably mean "seduce". Potato/Potahto.

Don't leave on account of me because you have another useful unique perspective. Surely there's room for all?

Thanks Stubborn..and thanks to you Forrest for watching and jumping in.

Sandi I really hope you will come back.

Chris has a lot of stuff going on..and it's all fast paced. Let's all work together to try and help him..