My H keeps breaking my heart so I have got to keep it to myself for a while. He doesn't know it but I have lost my sexual connection with him as well. I like him to hold me and I like to hold him but the last time he hurt me, by proving to me again that my place with him is dead last and then topped it off by telling me that he hopes I will learn how to stop being a victim, the connection broke. I have orgasms in my sleep but can barely get aroused with him.
This also resulted in loosing any expectations I have of him. The reason I have been continuously victimized by this man is because I kept asking for things that I felt would help us heal and help me to heal and he can't even remember the conversations much less that he made a commitment to do something. At work he remembers and follows up amazingly well. He saves forgetting for me. He has convinced me that he keeps me around to comfort him and that he thinks this should make me happy and that he believes that doing anything to meet my needs means I'm trying to control him. I think he simply doesn't get it but has no time and little desire to learn. I still believe that he is not a bad man just incredibly dense.
I feel compassion for him and I am committed to his well being but I have got to put my well being first or I will have nothing to give anyone. I am loosing my love for him as a husband and think his love for me as a wife has always been at some sort of "first stage".
Evidently, John Gottman has a new study out because my local paper picked up a story on it. The story said that he has found that "distancer/pursuer" marriages are the most likely to end in divorce. I am living proof that bringing up problems that need to be solved with an avoidant, distancing man absolutely does not ultimately end up anywhere near a happy life for anyone involved. He feels continually criticized and I feel continually discounted and frustrated.
So it is probably a good thing that I am giving up...at least on that. Vast experience has shown me that to try to talk to him about this stuff, even though it seems like we resolve things at the time, is not helpful in the long term. So now that I've explained all this, I am going to try my best to defocus from my marriage and put my energy into MY LIFE. My husband has no problem using all his energy outside of our marriage so that it feels like there is no marriage (focusing on something that doesn't exist is problematic). There is just me hearing in exhausting detail about all his work problems, dreams, frustrations, sacrifices, etc. For 12 years I have kept a complete catalog of all the people and incidents so that many times I remember it better than he does. One example of the attention he pays to me is that he couldn't remember that I had worked for a year at a college near us (it was a pretty big deal to me). I have always been the best friend he ever had. I have loved him too much giving him the right to love me too little.
This is sick and I am sick of it.
I really thought that when we started piecing our marriage together (it wasn't "back together" it was putting it together for the first time after all these years) that would mean all this would change. It did change at first but now he is just like he used to be.
I've gained back the 30 lbs I lost, but I am less happy than I used to be. I am functioning at about 60% and feel like I was at about 90% at my best. During the very worst time of my life, my early 20s, 25 years ago)I completely shut down and was in an utter hell. This has hurt just about as badly but at least I'm that much stronger and none of this has brought me back to that! Still, I WANT MY HAPPY, 90% FUNCTIONING SELF BACK!!! I miss me.
There are many, many things I want to do. I am doing some of them and setting things up to do others later. I'm exercizing 3x/week but still eating too much so the weight hasn't changed. I've got ideas for things that might help me get a grip on the eating and am pursuing them. I have many joyful blessings in my life and want to focus on them. My marriage is a challenge not a joy but there are pleasant moments when I view my husband as a nice room mate that I have no expectations of and then I can enjoy his company.
I'd prefer a committed partnership where the inevidable joys and heartaches are equally shared. I'd like us to both feel we can trust each other. Looks to me like he could easily be having an affair now and I feel little assurance that it won't happen, if not now, then in the future. Still, I have a pleasant roommate who provides the finances for me to spend my time on whatever I think is important (and there are a lot of things I think are important!) and maybe someday we will be married beyond legally. Or maybe I won't ever have that particular experience in my life. Perhaps he will have another affair--I do not know how to inspire his love, in a way that honors myself as well, in order to prevent this--I don't think I could stay again. Perhaps he will leave me for another woman, my love is cooling beyond what I can control, he probably feels that on some level. If I get to the point where I really don't love him my conscience will hurt me too much to stay.
My sister-in-law is doing this with my brother. My brother is on the fence with their marriage. She is moving on with her life and doing things she never dreamed she could do (like a 150 mile bike hike in two days in the Rockies). Still my brother says that they have hurt each other beyond repair and she has seemed angry to me as well. I don't want to have anger as the motivating force. I don't think I've said anything dreadful and beyond repair. I have tried always to be as kind as I could figure out. I could easily get over this last insult from my H and feel married if he changes. We are by no means beyond repair. We are at a standstill in the twilight zone that the marriage may never escape but I AM GETTING OUT MY SELF!
Just got news that my H got an important grant. I am very happy for him. He has worked hard for this. This might give him a little more peace of mind but I would be going against everything I wrote above if I started thinking he might be more available. Better to realize that it may result in more physical and emotional absence than ever. However my room mate does deserve some champagne!
Well my "roommate" appreciated the champagne but didn't sleep at all then had to go into work at 4:30 am he ascribed not sleeping to anxiety about all he has to do. Maybe he is reading this. If you are my dear,talk to me. I really feel it counter productive for me to try to talk to you directly. Chances are it's anxiety about work. 2L
I was reviewing the Michele helps Joanne thread and your suggestion fits in well with what I gottathinkn: Maybe just one small concrete goal. Something that's not going to break my heart if it doesn't happen.....hmmmmm
I'll have to think about it.
An intereting development has happened in the reclaiming of myself. Many times in my life I have had huge comfort, joy, and liberation through listeing to music. I had lost a lot of that starting on d-day. Just in the last week or two it's back! My soul has opened up enough to let music back in! Another piece of myself has been restored!
Well, at least I think we are a fascinating family.
Last night that little goal was met even before I set it. Plus now there is a new plan.
Here is the background: My father in his old age is reverting back to the way he treated me when I was a teen-ager--not a pretty picture. My mom tells me that her experience of being a parent of 3 mid-life adult children is just about as worrisome as parenting teenagers so I guess I should cut them some slack. I do OK while talking to my dad but when I get off the phone it helps me so much to talk about what happened and how I can better handle it. Also the issues at hand required several decisions that involved my H so I had to talk to him.
My H surprised me by coming home earlier than I thought he would. (He only worked from 4:30am-7pm amazing! He napped at work, as he often does on days like this, in effort to work as much as possible.) He was tired of course and a little cranky and within the first 5 minutes of being home attempted to give me a nutrition lesson. Eating is a sore spot for me at the moment and I know much more about nutrition than he does and he knows it. At least he should know it now! Hmmmm, he generally doesn't pay enough attention to have much of a clue as to what I know so he probably didn't know. Anyway, I firmly, but in no way abusively, set him straight and that subject ended. I think one reason my H married me is that I can generally hold my own in a firm but respectful way. I think this conversation somehow allowed what followed.
I started telling him about the conversation with my dad and you will never guess what happened! He gave solid evidence that he was LISTENING!!! He did this by asking me intelligent, thoughtful questions designed primarily to help him understand the situation and a couple of them helped me think more clearly about how I could interact better with my dad. Now those couple that really helped me think, that's what I'm really after because then we are functioning like partners. At this point, we don't have that and that is why I pay a therapist. NOT TELL me what to think, (thankfully my H has never done much of that--my dad has claimed this job that helps me like a hole in the head, hmmmm, that is probably one of the reasons I love my H and married him). JUST help me think for myself more clearly. Yes folks, the tangents continue but isn't that an important part of what being a good friend, a good parent, a good spouse is about: listening well enough and calmly enough to allow the object of all that love to figure it out for him/herself? I think the calm part mostly comes from realizing that this other person is equal in their personhood to you and ultimately have the right to choose their behavior and from having faith in them that they will at least eventually find their way to peace of mind.
Anyway things got even more interesting with my H. When I saw that he was REALLY listening, I was touched. “Positive feedback”, I thought, and proceeded to tell him that I appreciated his questions. You’ll never guess what happened. He just petered out completely. No more questions. He thanked me but then glazed over and stopped listening. It occurred to me that next time maybe I could try physical feedback—a hug perhaps or try to use it to get back some sexual feelings for him. When he wants to express appreciation I think he thinks of sex first when really what I need is words. Maybe if I take a step into his mode—without any expectation—we will see some other surprises.
So the goal is: My H will show me he is listeing by asking questions (I'm prepared to wait a long time for this to happen again if necessary).
When this happens I will not comment but take full advantage of his listening. After the conversation I will be physically affectionate and still not say a word. Does this sound like a good plan? 2L PS Goal 2: Master the short post.
Could be that when he glazed over and stopped listening, he was meta-processing. That would be wonderful. I do a lot of watching us interact from time to time and sometimes get distracted (surprise, surprise ). I've figured out with important feedback from my H that at those times he sees I'm not listening my best and it bothers him so I try to tell him what is going on.
On the other hand, I gotta get out of his head and just figure out what gets the best results--it really doesn't matter what's behind those good results-it just matters to do what keeps them coming. 2L
Had an OR talk tonight. We've found a house we like a lot that will be a stretch and I just needed some reassurance before taking such a plunge. He promised that he would never lie to me again about anything of significance and keep the white lies to a minimum. He says there is no affair and that he never wants that to happen again. Not sure if it's the right house for us but it was good to hear this and I have been hurting for a while. Don't want it to be a regular thing but once in a while... He seemed a bit irritated also and says he feels on eggshells because he doesn't know when he's going to hurt me. I said, it's not so tough to figure out but you probably would have to give it some careful thought.
So why can't I sleep?
I will watch over the next few days to see if things get better or worse. If they get better I will feel like I can talk to him but I will NOT take advantage of it. I will just be as loving as I can figure. I'll make a pact with myself to keep any "realizations" to myself and keep working on myself. If they get worse I better realize that direct communication just doesn't work. Hope it goes well. I do need to watch my mouth but I feel like I'm bound and gagged. There has got to be a way to get to a better place! At least I kept it pretty short and got to the point quickly.
Meanwhile... doing pretty well in going for several personal goals.
3 hours of sleep but I kicked butt exercising and feel good. I think it may be a combo of peri menopause and thinking about that house that kept me awake. Met a woman at the gym who may be a good person to know if some of my plans start to gel. Onward and upward.
Could use some input about how I sound. Do I sound whiney? Still got a long way to go to get my bearings and my confidence back.
Do you think I am DBing OK? Got any ideas as to how could I do better? Tell it to me straight. Thanks! 2
Keeping your feelings to yourself is a temporary thing, 2L. There is a better place. It's a place where you can air your concerns without finger-pointing. A place where you both can take constructive criticism.
But you're not there yet. Right now, there's been too much finger-pointing in your recent past, and any criticism is taken as more of it.
The way to the "better place" is to suck in all of your criticisms and exhude PMA. You have to do this long enough for the air of negativity to fade into the past.
It's taken me two years, but. Well, you've read my thread lately.
My W had gotten so defensive that she would cringe if I touched her. In her words, she didn't want to encourage me. This example is of a sexual nature, but it went beyond that.
The same things went for anything that she said or did that I didn't like.
"Honey, could you please not do that?"
"Fine! you're right again, and I'm wrong again!"
The only way I could break the cycle was to let her be right all of the time.
That's no way to have a R.
But, that's not how it is anymore.
It was just a phase that we had to go through.
But I think you're doing well, 2L. You're not complaining when he doesn't listen, but you show appreciation when he does.
The whole problem with his fear of hurting you is that he has to think about it. It's a lot of hard work, and it requires him to think of bad things (hurting you) in order to avoid them. This give your R an aura of negativity.
So, all I can say is that you should try to concentrate on the positive, don't react to the negative, and let him be himself.
He wants a good R with you, 2L. But part of a good R is the ability to relax and not second guess how your actions and words will be taken.
This is kind of a rambling post. I hope you can glean something out of it.
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but isn't that an important part of what being a good friend, a good parent, a good spouse is about: listening well enough and calmly enough to allow the object of all that love to figure it out for him/herself? I think the calm part mostly comes from realizing that this other person is equal in their personhood to you and ultimately have the right to choose their behavior and from having faith in them that they will at least eventually find their way to peace of mind.![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}