I just wanted to re-say what you said so very well:
"I have learned that the hurt one is the part of me that is completely alone with my own conscience, the HP, whatever you want to call it. The only real comfort I can find is inside me. (This way of looking at things gives my H the "space" he needs and gives me the realization that I am responsible for my own happiness.) It doesn’t help to try to get my H to comfort me. At the level I feel hurt, he can’t do it--nobody can. My H can only handle extremely limited access to me. I have now come to believe that’s just how humans are, and I do better to remember that and act accordingly."
"Yeah Baby!!!" (to quote that international man of mystery-was on tv this past weekend....)
This may sound kind of nuts, but I have stopped asking H to comfort me-which he would-but I stopped outright asking because I could tell it was hurting him.
I think I am finally realizing that you can only "punish" someone for so long before you really just lose interest. The ultimate detachment I suppose-coupled with forgiveness. It's like something I have always known but had not been able to truly live.
This is not to say that I don't have 'bad thoughts' anymore...matter of fact, I know that while the A was on-going, he was with her this past week-he gave me some bogus story about having to go to Germany (from Mid-east where he was) for something, and...get this-this is great....he could not figure out the phone system and that's why he didn't call me for the whole time he was there! Isn't that RICH!!! Here's a man, in his 40's, trained, educated and at the TOP of his career field (he cannot get promoted again-there is no higher rank) and he could NOT FIGURE OUT THE PHONE SYSTEM??? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh puhleeeeeese. (isn't that funny?? In a sick-twisted sort of way....or perhaps it's just pathetic....)
When I have thoughts like this, and I still do pretty (ok, very) often, I do not share them...AND most importantly, they do not rule me. I am more or less objective about them. They still hurt-but not to the point of tears or even ruining my mood. I think it's slipped into the category of regret or remorse-type of sadness. They are just sort of random thoughts I have...hard to explain-but I bet you know what I mean.
Anyway-I am starting to ramble...just wanted to let you know that "I know what 'cha mean".
I think it is only through feeling the kinds of pain we have all felt here that we can learn to be as compassionate towards our partners as to not “inflict” our pain, or make their guilt heavier to carry (which surely does not help us rebuild, does it?). I see awareness in my H of what I have gone through, and he apologizes, but we do not talk much about it. I can almost see that by the time he gets to the place where he can really face it, I may be past a lot of it. Or at least at such a stage of healing that I can be detached from the events so they don’t interfere with rebuilding. (If we get there.)
Like you said ALTL, the bad thoughts still happen. Just yesterday, when I visited H at our house. H’s parents (who do not know he wants to reconcile again) have been helping him with repairs around the house to prepare to sell it, which has been infuriating me for many reasons. They had gone into my room (where my stuff is a state of half packed/half unpacked) and they re-packed and moved stuff around. I felt violated all over again because now H has been all through my personal things, and it feels like they have too. I no longer even want my stuff because of that. Anyway. He knew I was troubled, and was about to sink into a big heavy guilt mood, and I just asked if when they are done the repair, HE would put my stuff back in the room (in a way I can get at it) and not touch or let anyone but me touch it again. I made it very clear this is not negotiable, and I told him this was a way he could specifically help me heal this part of the mess. He seemed to feel better that I gave him a small thing to do to help.
Getting a solution thiinking cap on... I may make myself a list of all the things that really hurt and infuriated me this past year - and then come up with ways I can specifically "exorcise" them out of my system - some I may be ready for now, some I can repeat over again when I need to, and some I may not be ready for yet- but can work towards. And then IF H wants to, maybe I'll know better the ways he could be part of it (or not).
Dear jtolic, I really think our spouses can't not dance. They just dance far away and some pretty wild steps sometimes. By dancing our own dance with all the integrity we can muster we regain ourselves and sometimes our spouses. A crisis like big marital trouble is something that can get you to do things you never thought you could because it is so powerful. It is a rare opportunity to look yourself in the eye in a mighty bright light and to get yourself to match up to who you want to be. Now, I agree there's got to be a better way... but we might as well use what we got
Dear Me2,
I can see your secret: humor! Good for you! Awsome detachment skills too! I'm confused about your situation and (sorry) don't have time to read up on you like I will later, is the A ongoing? If so what is being said about it between you, if anything?
Dear LeeP,
I loved your "tangent". I'm curious about your idea of detaching from events. Could you say more?
[ October 29, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
Been away for a few days, just read your Q and thought I'd elucidate me sit...
A is over. It was over before I actually knew the WHOLE truth. I suspected, and found OW's yahoo ID screen name in his instant messenger account-I was snooping and hacked into his account-he lied and said he was just talking to her over IM and email (no sex-stuff) and that he'd met her in a chat room. All BS. He met her a month or so after he deployed-at a week-long course they both attended-slept together after getting drunk one night(or so he says) and then continued the A for about 3 months...long distance-she in Germany he in Mid-East. He would come stateside to visit us in conjunction with another course or meeting...and see her either enroute here or back there. Nice huh....what a guy.
I had suspicions of OW from as early as Sep-it started with her end of Aug. After I found her screen name in is yahoo IM account in Jan-I put my foot down and said NO MORE CONTACT with her. He stopped but I never did believe him about it only being 'talking on the computer'.
He re-deployed home in July...we were "ok" but I was still struggling with the lies and kept snooping and doing all the wrong things to try and 'catch' him. It screwed with my head so much that I even went into therapy to deal with it...but I stopped just before he re-deployed.
The snooping got less and less as I was starting to trust him again, but for some reason I went into one of his email accounts on Nov 7 2000, I had not opened either of the 2 accounts I took control of in at least 30 days....and there was an email from a woman wanting to know how mad he was at her for not having replied to any of her emails-
I was BESIDE myself...called him at work and confronted him-asked who she was (by name-before this I only had her IM screen name and he would NOT tell me who she was or where she lived). He knew his shit was weak. I screamed and yelled and hung up on him...told him he'd better get his ass home if he knew what was good for him-and oh by the way-that I was sending her a reply and would CC him at his work email address.
So I did. I replied to her (from his account) and told her who I was and while I didn't know how mad he was at her I could tell her with a great degree of certainty how mad I was at him. Within 30 minutes she answered me. I was surprised. She apologized and said that she had no idea he was married-he had lied to her-and had she known she never would have gotten involved with him...she also confirmed that they'd had no contact since late Jan.
We (I) talked/yelled/screamed for a few hours that day, we were supposed to be at work-but I left just after I got her email to go home and pack my things to leave his sorry ass, and he got there a little while after me (he commutes over an hour each way). I yelled some more and screamed some more...was too mad to cry but called him every name in the book-even slapped his face and shoved him. Threatened to leave him. He begged me to stay. Said he was sorry he lied about everything but he was afraid I’d leave him. He asked me to go to therapy with him to work it out. He basically let me rant and rave...knowing dam well I wasn’t gonna leave. He seemed rather complacent about the whole thing-very even tempered-you might even say stoic.
It’s so frustrating. Here we are a year after I find out the WHOLE truth...we did the therapy thing for about 6 months. It seems he has no explanation for why he did what he did-no real REASON-he says it wasn’t me-it was him. He agreed, as did I, on what things we needed to work on to foster our communication methods with each other, what the different tools were, what we SHOULD do and say-but he will not put them into practice. He is essentially the same. Silent-moody-sullen when we disagree-will not resolve ANYTHING just pretends everything is rosey and wonderful. He has this uncanny way of making me feel really stupid too-my perception of how he feels about me from what he says and how he often treats me. He wants OR to be great-wonderful-no problems....but is not willing to face any issues I have...and I seem to be the only one who ever does have an issue and I am the only one who gets distressed.
I don’t know, I’ve been in a funk lately-past 4-5 days...I feels like I had no say in the decision or no say in where we went/what happened to OR-it was almost like he KNEW I wouldn’t leave him, even tho he says he was sure I’d leave and that’s why he lied. I think he lied to avoid having to deal with my shit. He seems to have all but forgotten about what he did. This is not to say I want him to constantly brood over it, but at least help get the resolution I need to work past it. Yes we are "rebuilding" but it DID happen and I still hurt. It’s like he “has” me and I’m not going anywhere and he knows this. Y'know for some strange reason I am still afraid he’ll leave me...Now does that make sense???? It sure as hell doesn’t to me. I also feel that if I were to go to him and say ‘get out’ or ‘I’m leaving’ he’d just say ‘ok’. I tell ya, some days the only two reasons I’m here at all are 5 and 6 years old (and look like him!)...
Now regarding our(my) latest issue-like I said I’ve been down-in-the-dumps the past few days, and here he comes after basically ignoring me for 2 days acting all like-‘oh nothing’s wrong’ and ‘we’re best buddies again’, and that same morning he won't talk to me-left the house in the morning in a huff without even saying a word...it’s so hard to keep up PMA when I just don’t feel like it anymore. If he doesn’t want to deal with me, fine, maybe I should leave. I am NOT a Stepford Wife, but sometimes I sure feel like it.
I have changed myself so much over the past year that I am finding that now doing 180’s from the first 180’s I did bring me right back to 360...or where I was last year, back to the same old thing that didn’t work and are what led to his A...
Your not alone Me2. I still don't know what all really happened. The difference is I really don't need to anymore.
So why are you down? Really? Is it that he is not working on the R?
Some tell me that all the stuff my W is getting involved with is an exit strategy. My response is "I don't think so, but if it is, I'm OK with that". It's funny how different people see things completely different. When you really think about it, I think these feelings and strange comments comme from fear. Let go of fear and accept what life throws at you. If things are not heading in the right direction, initiate a change.
Fourty feet is pretty big for a sail boat with only a one man crew. On one of those beautiful days when your running downwind with the chute up, I'm amazed that I could change the course of that boat by changing my position in the cockpit. Not a big change in course, but it does not need to be to take you to a different location in the long haul.
I like the sailboat analogy-I get it...it's also like when you're walking an azimuth with a compass (land nav)...even if you vary by half of a degree, 1000 to 2000 meters down the way you'll be WAY off from where you should be....
So why am I so down? I am down because, well, a bunch of reasons I suppose-everything I act 'as if' about and NOT let get to me....sometimes they do. If I had to choose 1 thing...it'd be the fact that he acts like NOTHING bothers him and he's got this riteous indignation about him sometimes...makes me want to slap him. He never approaches a problem we have-he just ignores me for a period of time, then out of the blue acts like NOTHING happened and we're buddies again.
A good friend of mine, pretty much the ONLY one who knows about his A besides H, me and our C, told me she thinks he might be cheating again.....I almost lost it. (ALMOST) cuz I really don't thing he is....
Gotta run-day care late fees are killer-I'll be around this weekend....
Sorry to not get back to you for a while. Hope the funk has funkied on down the road for you. The honest truth for me is that after 2 1/2 years I am amazed at how badly I can hurt at times. I don't mean that to sound discouraging but for me, it just goes with the territory. Now here is the encouraging part: what I do with those feelings makes a huge difference. I have been thinking a lot about the idea that when pain is passed back and forth it intensifies. This weekend I have (despite some serious doubts that I was doing the right thing) steadfastly refused to let my H see any of those painful feelings. The results have been impressive. Its as though deep down somewhere he knows that he’s getting a break and he is so grateful. Either that or he really likes what I did with my hair… He has been so affectionate, physically and especially verbally, that it is making me feel lots better. It is working much better than the OR talks that I think we should be having because we are rebuilding. Yesterday we did errands together and had such a great time just being together.
I am certain that I will never understand why he did what he did and I imagine certain aspects will probably always hurt like day one from time to time. For me it is like a death of a close loved one—we all have or will experience that—everyone does. I will always miss what I had, but life goes on and it is up to me and only me to make it as worthwhile as I can figure out. This weekend I managed grace and generosity, it felt very good to both of us. Hopefully I can remember how to do this more often.
I think we've found before that our H's are somewhat similar. My H does the "very calm" thing too. He talks like a robot...like Hal of 2001 fame in fact...boy does that get me! Thankfully he hasn't done it much lately!
Me2 – Sorry you’re in a funk. It just sucks. One of the counselors I saw taught me a good trick. She said when I feel resentful, and get stuck in the negative feelings, to “frame it”, meaning decide on a period of time I will give myself permission to really let myself feel the negative stuff, and then when the time is up, get out of it. This is easier said than done, I know. Can I ask you a question? While I was reading your post, I wondered… how would you feel different if you left?How would you resolve your hurt either way? I ask myself these often. I remind myself that it probably won’t be all rosy if H ever asks me to move back in… with the immediate crisis out of the way, the issues that got us here might resurface sometimes. I’m sure I wasn’t so happy all the time before either. It is changing how we look at it that will change the outcome, and that HAS to happen whether we get back together or not. Make any sense?
I have some killer bad feelings, still, too and I want to resolve them (with or without H’s help) ‘cause I don’t want to carry it around with me. I’d like to think “Lightness of being” is well worth the work. If I can get there first, H can choose to jump aboard or not. Why wouldn’t he? Why do any of us hang on to our negative feelings? Maybe because it feels safe? Justified? Who knows. We all do it. It’s in living there less and less that we make progress, I think.
ALTL- “… Its as though deep down somewhere he knows that he’s getting a break and he is so grateful”. "This weekend I managed grace and generosity, it felt very good to both of us. Hopefully I can remember how to do this more often.”
I think you already know the answer to whether or not you did the right thing. It’s in how you feel about it. Good, I hope
