Ho, ho, oh Yes I'm headed forward. I've been thinking a lot about carefully crafting messages about how life can be better for my H and I. Will report more later.
For most this will seems obvious but for me (a born pursuer) this is a big step: Over the past month I've gotten used to not having my H around and have gotten involved in quite a few activities in my community. So, this week I'm suggesting that my H work late two nights.
I'm doing more to take care of my own needs so looking to him less.
One part concerns me: I still feel like I'll never trust him with my heart again--that doesn't make me love him less. It's a lot like loving a child--I accept all the responsibility for the emotional relationship both giving to him and not asking for anything in return. I'm not sure if this will ever change and it is not my idea of a healthy marriage but it's all I got. It is quite sobering. I feel more "adult" than I ever have--suppose it's good for one's repertoire but generally I've thought "adult" to be overrated.
It feels like we are on separate tracks not like we are partners. It's not all bad. Does this sound familiar?
alottolearn, I'm struggling with the same feelings. I feel like it's my job to meet HIS needs AND it's my job to meet MY needs. There's just no fairness or equity in it.
Not only do I feel like the only adult in the home, but I tend to think of him as retarded since he just does not get the simplest of things, i.e. when you cheat on someone, you cannot expect them to trust you again without some effort on YOUR part.
I tend to get through each day by living in two worlds, the inner and the outer. My inner world protects me from the insanity of the outer world lived with him. I have found it futile to share my inner world with him, so I keep it to myself. I'm very protective of the inner (real) me.
Harmony
Harmony
09/23/01: D-day and day H returned after 6-day separation, promising to do anything to save the M.
H continues to spend leisure time where OW works and refuses to stop or take me with him.
I'm currently using LRT.
Wow, Ladies you have struck a chord. I have been thinkin about this quite a bit myslef. I have decided to adopt a "benefit of the doubt" perspective. I think our spouses are just as scared about what happened as we are. I also think they are hurt inside to the point that they are unsure about trusting us.
I can relate to the unfamiliar sensation of living lives separate rather than as single entity (couple). I am working to balance this as I realize my goals are not identical to my W's. She needs her separateness. It's something that has always eluded her. Me, I always had it and I want to be a family man. So, I accept her desire and fulfill more of my need with my kids. It's still a win/win/win situation. It's just the balance that has shifted.
W, on the other hand, is appreciative of the time she gets to work on defining herself. She shows it with small words and small deeds. I have discovered that this is her way.
I think trust returns in small doses if we allow it to. However, we never get back to our original position of "blind trust". I'm not so sure this is a bad thing.
I can also say I don't give W ready access to the me inside. I also have found she does not want ready access, just limited access.
Keep searching, but don't overlook the possibility that it is front of your nose.
I was just saying something like what Harmony says above to ANS on another thread...
"I tend to get through each day by living in two worlds, the inner and the outer. My inner world protects me from the insanity of the outer world lived with him. I have found it futile to share my inner world with him, so I keep it to myself. I'm very protective of the inner (real) me."
Sometimes I feel like I'm two people living, sometimes floundering, inside one body.
I still have ugly/bad thoughts but I have learned to detach myself from the feelings associated with them and make it like it happened to the other me.
I am so much more reserved than I used to be (I know, some would say that's not a bad thing! ). I often wonder if I am acting or if this new me is the real me (?). I also tend to not let H see how I really feel, and I know that is not a good thing. I have toned it WAY down, but often to the point of stoicism.
But then, like Kent says about his W and limited rather than ready access, perhaps this is how he wants it? Sure feels lonely sometimes, huh.
Have any of y'all been able to get the 'two of you' to meet?
As far as the trust issue goes, it can be had to some degree again, but it definitely must be earned, and on a daily basis. The blind 100% trust I once held for my marriage is gone. And, once again like Kent says, it's not a bad thing. I held my H with such high regard and to such a high standard - he just was not able to meet it, I was unfair to him.
quote:Originally posted by Harmony: I'm struggling with the same feelings. I feel like it's my job to meet HIS needs AND it's my job to meet MY needs. There's just no fairness or equity in it.
I think we have to let go of the whole notion of equity. When we feel this way, resentment builds. At the same time, our SO is very likely feeling the same way. So we end up in a pissing contest.
I've found that in order to get on the same team, we've gotta stop keeping score. I've always thought of myself as a giving person until my W blasted me as being controlling. I guess that the way I divided up the responsibilities made W feel like SHE had the lions share, and I wasn't listening when she complained. So now, without pointing it out to her, I'm doing as much of "her" responsibilities as I can. It seems to me that she's taking advantage of this. In her mind, I owe her. But, gradually, she's taking some of the responsibility back.
quote:Originally posted by KentS: W, on the other hand, is appreciative of the time she gets to work on defining herself. She shows it with small words and small deeds. I have discovered that this is her way. I think trust returns in small doses if we allow it to. However, we never get back to our original position of "blind trust". I'm not so sure this is a bad thing. I can also say I don't give W ready access to the me inside. I also have found she does not want ready access, just limited access.
I think that part of the WAW phenomenon is that women, and especially stay-at-home-moms (like my W) get swollowed up in the caretaker role. They lose themselves. So, at this point in time, our Ws don't feel a "need" for a close R. They want to fill the gap in their lives, and that doesn't include us. This is when they need space, and that's when us guys start to pursue.
Kent, I agree that our goals are never identical. But we always have common goals. It's really a matter of which goals are most important to each of us. When our spouse's most important goal is to define themselves, and ours is a closer R, conflict arises. But if we can let them pursue their goals - even help them with them - then the relative importance of those goals will diminish. When that happens, the common goals will bubble to the surface.
Harmony, ALTL:
To me, it looks like you're embarking on the same path. Your Hs are content to let you take care of the R. They figure it's your problem. IMHO, the solution is (as Harmony said) to embrace the separateness. BUT, at the same time, don't give in to it. Maybe your Hs won't help you work on your R right now, but don't let that stop you. It's a balancing act.
Me2, Until our priorities shift in such a way as they get closer together, I think we have to split ourselves in two. It's a way of keeping order in the chaos. But, like I said, if we help our spouses with their goals (outer world), eventually, we'll be able to let them into our inner world.
It is a way I try to keep my sanity. And, I would love to let him back in-but I'm not so sure he wants back in. I have not been able to help him with his goals as you suggested b/c I don't think I really know what they are...or if I ever did. Past the 'life with you, growing old together' stuff, and don't get me wrong, I am SO fortunate to hear that-(although it's still somewhat hard to 100% believe)--but past that, I really don't know what he wants-or who he is.
I've stopped worrying about it so much tho, and that too has helped. I will be here if/when he is ready.
A note about the stay-at-home Mom...I was one for ~2 years, left a high-stress, high-optempo, high-responsibility career to be a Mom. Don't regret the decision at all, and I really can relate to what you said about how they tend to lose themselves...I sure did.
Ironically however, we moved-I went back to work full time (and within 2 weeks hated my job!) lived in a hotel for 30 days until we bought a house-arranged for and put the kids back into full time daycare-ALL within the span of about 2 months....then H left for a year deployment overseas. I still had not unpacked anything but a few pots/pans and our clothes. And I was alone. (oh, don't forget about the 2 dogs-and no fenced back yard!!!)
It sounds like such a recipie for WAW doesn't it? Based on some stories I've heard, you could almost bet I would have been the one that cheated....I have wanted to ask H for a while, but won't, what gave HIM the right to cheat when I was the one left with all the family responsibility/new house/job/no freinds....no family...and he was overseas with only himself to look after.(?) I know his job came with a certain amount of stress, but c'mon....
Another thought, I no longer feel responsible for fulfilling my W's needs. I will support her search and if she wants and asks for more from me, I will offer it. But I'm done trying to figure it out and I'm done taking responsibility for her not knowing or getting what she needs. We have discussed this and she agrees. I now expect her and trust her to speak-up.
Me2, It's part of the confusion. I still see it in W's actions from time to time. If your H is similar, he probably does not think much about goals or the future or planning on how to achieve goals.
This is not natural human behavior unless there is still pain, confusion or both overiding the desire to plan for the future. In our crisis, my W told our C that she does'nt plan beyond next week.
That was then and now is now. Things have and are changing.
quote:Originally posted by KentS: I no longer feel responsible for fulfilling my W's needs.
I agree that we aren’t responsible for ALL of our spouses needs, and we certainly can’t guess what they are.
BUT
Some of their needs should only be fulfilled by us. The easiest example to cite is sex. We could debate whether or not sex is a “need”, but we could also debate intimacy, companionship, friendship…
Yes, there are needs that we aren’t responsible for. Others that we can only help, and others that are completely out of our sphere of influence.
Getting back to the initial question from ALTL: How do we express our needs without it coming across as criticism?
I think that by taking responsibility for some of our spouses needs, helping with others, and not standing in the way of the rest, we can make our spouses more amenable to doing the same thing for us. When our spouse starts to feel more giving, we can start to ask.
). I often wonder if I am acting or if this new me is the real me (?). I also tend to not let H see how I really feel, and I know that is not a good thing. I have toned it WAY down, but often to the point of stoicism.