When I first joined this forum, I started on this board because for 15 years I had fought for a good marriage with the right ingredients and I carried on with a total conviction that they could still be there. I am still very grateful that I found this site because it truly enabled me to find the strength to be myself and the courage to rely on nobody else.
However, I am also finishing on this post and I am truly sorry to be here saying what I am about to say.
I threw my husband out because his behaviour was intolerable - that's after dealing with it for 15 years. He said he didn't want to come back and I brought him back with the help of DB. That was nearly 3 months ago. In the beginning it was great and there were many things which lead me to believe that he was changing and starting to believe that this marriage could be good for him too and he could work on it. But he went away to work for 28 days and when he came back, there was a difference. Attitudes and behaviour were back to the same old way.
I have always asked for openness and honesty and when we got back together I told him it had to be with a clean slate. We had to start this marriage again, so we had to be totally truthful about everything. I am an intuitive and perceptive person and very sensitive to the changes in others. I knew there was something but didn't know what. I bring my children up to know that it is better to tell the truth because they may get punished but if they lie and I find out later, the punishment will be more severe. I said to him, if there is anything to tell me, tell me now so that we can deal with it and move on.
The long and short of it is I found the evidence and had to drag out the truth that he had an affair. This is the man who swore on his dead son's grave that he never had. In spite of me now knowing, he still continued to lie, not only that, but believes he should never have told me. He said he couldn't have told me before because this would have been the outcome.
I spent years being told by him that I was paranoid, by friends that I was crazy, he wouldn't do anything like that. I was forced to deny my instincts. Now I know they were right. Not only that, but the instincts about this that I have had over all these years. I know this wasn't a one off, that he has lied his way through our entire marriage. That's what I will never forgive.
The other thing I cannot forgive or tolerate is the fact that when he has consequences to face for his actions, he gets angry at me and this time (not for the first time, although the two other occasions were many years ago)he got me by the throat, pushed me back over a chair and threatened what he would do if I hurt the children. This is how screwed up his thinking is. He thinks I will hurt the children by telling them what their father has done to me. It doesn't enter his head that it is him doing this to them as well as to me.
And still he says he's committed to this marriage while he continues to lie to me. He phoned to say sorry for his behaviour, it was unforivable but one thing I have learned about this man is that he is never sorry for his actions, he is only ever sorry for himself. Faced with the consequences of his actions, ie me leaving and taking his children away from him, he thinks I should fix this and let him carry on the way he wants to.
Before this arose, I asked him what he would change about himself which would help to make our relationship better. His answer was to be more understanding. When I asked him what he thinks I should change, his answer was that I should be a happier person. He believes he is a good husband and father and in spite of everything he has done, most of which I don't know about, that I should be happy. He actually believes that lies are OK and the truth causes all the problems.
When I found this site, I did what I have always done, looked at what I was doing, taking the responsibility for the marriage and the relationship, seeing what I could do to make a difference, make it better. Trying to find what I was doing wrong. But at the end of the day, I wasn't doing anything wrong, I wasn't asking for anything that shouldn't have been there, or doing anything to cause him pain or betrayal making any problems between us.
Everything between us has been caused by his lying and his guilt. That's the bottom line. His anger and resentment and criticism against me was all because I got in the way, I spoiled his fun. He wanted to juggle a happy home life with all his extra curricular activities both in real life and on the net. The only person who had to deal with the consequences of his actions was me. And I'm the fool who has wasted the best years of my life doing just that.
But no more. I have reached my limit of how much I will take from this man. He has the integrity of a slug, the morals of a whore and no conscience whatsoever. He has had many, many chances to change but this was the last chance and he didn't have the guts to take it. This is not the kind of man I want in my life, nor should ever have had in my life. He's gone away for a week and thinks he will talk his way back into this family but it's way past time I kicked this man into touch. I'm not prepared to be the patsy he continues to lie to. I've compromised my values long enough, I've covered for him, I've supported him and I've enabled him to take everything from me and still want more from wherever he can get it. I've forgiven him time and time again but there comes a time when enough is enough and I have reached that point.
Nobody, not even you Michele, if you read this, can tell me that I should continue to put my trust and faith in this man and work for something better with him. I now know that he will not change, no matter what I do, it is all a waste of time. The only thing I am prepared to trust is myself and my instincts and I should have done that all along. I did the one thing, eventually, which you're not supposed to do, I snooped. But if I hadn't snooped this marriage would have continued with lies as it's foundation and me being made a fool of for goodness knows how long.
So I say farewell, dear friends. I don't feel able to give anyone any advice here any more. If I haven't been able to trust my own instincts, how can you trust them. Right now I am full of anger and bitterness which I feel I have a right to. It won't stay with me, I'll get over it. He can't hurt me any more anyway, I've lived that hurt for all these years and am at least now at peace because I know why.
I wish you all so, so much better than what I've ended up with. We all deserve that.
I am sooooo sorry!!! And I am not about to tell you that you have to fight for your marriage. As we have always said, only YOU know when you have tried everything and it isn't working and it's time to move on. And if my H had ever taken me by the throat and knocked me down, that would be by done time too!! Please know that DBing can have a lot more to do with surviving this mess than savign the marriage. If you need to leave this board, then do so, but otherwise maybe go visit the Surviving the Big D folder. Others of us have ended up over there in the end, but it isn't the end, it's the beginning for them. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!!! YOU WILL BE MISSED!!
Joanne, I am sending many, many hugs your way. No one deserves to live within the tangled web of lies. I personally have very much appreciated your advice and insights. You are a very bright, caring, insightful person.
I'm so sorry Jo. I didn't see this one coming. I really thought you 2 were going to click it all together. You've always spoke with such superior DB knowledge. Please, please, don't leave this site. Just because it didn't work for you, you DO have the knowledge of what it takes, and you CAN help others. Without pointing blame (sorry Michele), this is your H's fault, you've done EVERYTHING you could to save your marriage. May you walk away guilt free. I know you will. And please stop by to help others. JoAnne, you DO know what it takes to save a marriage, don't lose that.
No one in their right mind would tell you to continue to fight for your marriage. I believe that Michele will agree that when you feel enough is enough, then ENOUGH!
Throught bitterness and anger, you sound incredilby strong! YEAH for you!
I wish you much happiness and brighter beginnings in your new future,
Jo, Throw the bum out! No man has any right to treat a woman with such disrespect after she has worked so hard for him. You asked for the truth and at the time I'm sure would have accepted it. Except he lied. The only way to start again is to acknowlegds the past, work through the hurts and clean the slate. From that moment on. You deserve better and will get better. Come back and see us. Who knows who will fall off the surviving big-D bus.. Rondo
Thank you all for your support and kind words and all the cyberhugs were needed and appreciated.
SbyS - I agree, I have turned back into the true me since finding DB and it has given me a strength and belief in myself. Had this happened 6 months ago, I would have been in a serious mess. The tears come from time to time but it isn't a lost marriage that I cry for, it's the humiliation and the lost years. I do not fear the future at all in spite of living overseas and no house to go home to and no money to go with. I have a house here with many things that have been with me for years but I could walk away from it all knowing that even if I have nothing, I will be happy. I will survive, no matter what.
Chelsea - I too feel very let down to have gone straight from a success to a complete failure. However much work I did, it didn't work on him!! But it did work on me. It still makes me smile when someone says I have superior DB knowledge. I only managed to read halfway through the book before I lent it to someone who (I thought- Ha Ha) had bigger problems than me and needed it more. It is helping her no end, I believe. I will stop by now and again and let you know how thing are. There are a few of you who I always check up on to check progress, even if I don't post.
Bruce, Missy, Rondo - thanks. It is true wha you say Rondo. We all let go of the past to start again afresh but in order to change yourself and learn to do things differently, you have to acknowledge the things that you did which didn't work, or caused problems between you. I would have been very, very hurt if he had been truthful with me but I know it would have been short term and I would have accepted and appreciated that he was being up front and honest, no matter how else I felt about it. If he had told me about 10 affairs and had followed it with his commitment to change and acknowledgement of stupidity and betrayal, I would still have felt better than finding it out the way I did. I don't believe in 'what you don't know can't hurt you'. It hurt our marriage in a big way, whether I knew or not. It was me who didn't know why.
Having said all this, the intensity of my reaction when he told me was something even I hadn't reckoned with. But what has made it so much worse is that I know even then he lied about it. Saying it was only for six months, 3 years ago. I know that is a lie. She sent him a valentine card on 14.2.00 and that's hardly 3 years ago. We don't even live in the same country now but it is only a 30 min flight away. I know he was making arrangements to go back there to live and work just before he was offered this new job and that was only a week before he moved back with me. But none of this came from his lips. I also know that this went on for 2 years and not six months. And as for the past 2 years, who knows what has gone on.
He wrote me an e-mail today and followed up his phone call to apologise to me for his behaviour. He didn't tell me anything I didn't know. He said no excuses, no justifications. What he didn't say spoke volumes. Not a word of love or care, not a word about what HE is going to do about any of this, not a word about how he wants to or is going to change. No sincerity and no passion. He just wants to talk so that I'll fix it as usual. This man isn't on another planet, he's on one which hasn't been discovered yet! He's still feeling more sorry for himself than he is about anything else. I did send him an answer, but not what he wanted to hear.
So I'm looking forward to peace and harmony in my life now. He can run off to his OW and carry on repeating the process of his life. This is his second marriage down the tubes. You'd think he would have learned something by now if he'd ever bothered to grow up.
Hello Jo: Yes, you're on the right track. A stronger you has emerged. I give you a lot of credit for standing up to him! I'm really sorry for the bittersweet ending. It hurts like heck, but you know what? You'll make it! Don't apologize. You haven't let us down. I know Michele agrees. I remember your posts. You've done your share in helping. Now, its YOUR TURN to shine. Thats the BIGGEST gift that you can give us! I'm sure the lessons you've learned will not be forgotten. Mark my words. Thanks for all your posts, Jo.
Joanne, I am really sorry that you are confronted with such a tough situation. But you sound really strong and that's great. I am grateful that people on this board now know me well enough to know that I would never recommend that you stay in your marriage if you are completely done with it based on how you've been treated.
I know you well enough to know that you have worked very hard to make your marriage work. If you, Joanne, are convinced it's over, it's over. I regret all that you've been through but you've become a stronger person because of it.
I'm glad that DB has helped you to feel your own strength. As everyone know, Dbing doesn't always save every marriage, but it can save your sanity. So please, Joanne, keep us posted. Everyone here cares about you, including me. Michele
