I just want to make it better. . .

[seekpeaceofmind]

I'm sick of going over this stuff in my mind over and over. I hope that putting it out here will help me to stop obsessing and shift my focus. This is my first post and it's really long, so I'm going to break it into more than one post.

My fiasco began last June. After 12 years of M, my H felt more like a housemate than a partner. Fun and intimacy had become a thing of the past. Finally, after he had rejected another of my "advances", I came out with it and asked him what was going on. He said he wasn't "interested" and it was clear from his non-verbals that he was angry with me. Over the next few weeks, resentments that he had saved up over the years started coming out and he became more and more detached. Each complaint that he was specific about I addressed immediately. He said he noticed that I was trying and making changes, but it didn't seem to influence his feelings toward me. He didn't want to do anything, including social activities, together and refused to take any kind of vacation. He was drinking quite a bit (at home) and staying away from bed. He started having insomnia and reading or watching TV all night. When he did sleep, it was on the couch. I was devastated by what was going on and very worried about him. I went to employee assistance for referral. He participated in a couple of those sessions, but didn't react well to it. He was resistant to joint counseling. He said that he had no energy let to give to the marriage.

He claims that he asked me a couple of years to participate in MC and that I had refused. I don't recall that at all - but what really gets to me is that he said that he saw a counselor on his own for a while. I never knew about it! He never told me about any C sessions and never engaged in any discussion with me that would have let me know that he wanted to talk about or work on our M. Those last two years were pretty stressful and I had my own R complaints, but no resolution and - I totally acknowledge - not very good R skills in use. I own up to being impatient, short-tempered and failing to nurture our M. I was having trouble coping with a new job and physical problems also made me unavailable the way I should have been. I got myself under control, mentally and physically, and by spring 07 was doing much better and trying to "reconnect" with H. His attitude was "done trying".

[seekpeaceofmind]

So, he moved out 9/26. He moved to a town an hour away from me and further from work than where we live now, but closer to his family. He claims there is no OW. He made a point of not taking most of his stuff so that it would be as if he was still here/coming back. He also made a point of saying that we were living apart as opposed to "separated". Since then, he has detached more and more. At first, we were going to get together once or twice a week to keep the connection between us. As the weeks went by, that stopped. In the last couple of months, we have had probably 2 or 3 hours worth of conversation. We normally spend Thanksgiving with his family - I wasn't invited, so I went to Fla to visit a friend. The following weekend I went away again - he took care of our pets and when I got home I realized that he had taken some of his "treasures" that he might have thought I wouldn't notice missing. I started then to lose hope.

His b'day was 12/6 - I invited him out for lunch or dinner over the weekend and he declined. On Sat (12/8) he asked if he could come over to "see the dogs". I learned then that he had a hernia operation on 12/4 - he didn't even tell any of his family. He spent the night in the hospital and went back to work the very next day. During this visit, he brought up R talk. I took the opportunity to tell him that I wanted to be forgiven for my mistakes, forgive him for his and move on to the future. He said he wishes he "knew then" what he knows now. I believe he sees now that I was dealing with my own stuff and not rejecting him, but it seems that he has simply hardened his heart and turned away. Not for the first time - I am his third wife; this is my first (only) M.

We had no plans to see each other for Christmas - he stopped by my office about 2:30 with a gift for me and one from his sister also. No contact for New Year's either - I now call him very seldom and usually only for a specific purpose. He never seems to answer his cell phone anymore. But, NY day I finally called him and left a vm that I just wanted to connect given the occasion. No response, no acknowledgement.

[seekpeaceofmind]

I have been in IC and he agreed to MC when he moved out. He keeps stressing his ambivalence, but doesn't move one way or the other toward working on the M or fully moving out and filing. We have had only 5 sessions - the last one was 12/26. In the 4th session, he claimed that I had isolated him from his family and friends over the years - but all of the specific examples he gave were just not true. I don't know if he really believes his version of reality or if it is just easier for him to make these claims than to deal with reality.

In the last (5th) session, I decided to shut up as much as possible so that he would do more of the talking. He came out with the statement that the root issue for him is that he wants to spend more time with his family and friends. Everyone that he wants to see lives at least an hour's drive from our home and our work is further yet. Before he moved out, he was spending every Saturday visiting his father. He described wanted to make drop in visits - such as stop by and see his father for 15 minutes to say hi and then move on.

When he talked about wanting to get together with various friends for a beer, I said it sounded like he wants to be single - not because I have a problem with him doing that but because he made it sound like he just wants to come and go without any ties at home. I wish I had sounded more validating, but I was stunned by what he was saying. The inference was I'm some kind of shrew who kept him on tight leash. I also just couldn't take in that this is the problem. I also said it sounds like he would like to move to another area - which of course he did do, but when I've talked about moving in the past he hasn't been responsive or wanted to pursue. At the time we hit crisis point he said didn't pursue moving because (unbeknown to me) he wasn't sure of our marital status. So frustrating.

So, anyway, the MC then asked if we could address these issues that my H was raising and what effect that would have on us getting back together. I said that we could absolutely work out a resolution to his concerns and that I thought this was completely fixable. H said he had to adjust - that he feels like he's been pushing against a closed door and now its suddenly open. So he was unresponsive really. No breakthrough. I really question whether this is the real issue -but I can only go by what he says.

[seekpeaceofmind]

We had lunch on the Friday after this last MC session. It was the first time we've spent more than 15 minutes together in a couple of months. And, of course, I was so anxious that I just couldn't relax and be upbeat. It felt like so many topics were awkward or off-limits. So, I finally decided to just acknowledge it and told him that I wasn't really myself, but that I was still happy to be spending time with him. I was kicking myself, but just really having a hard time with the disconnect between my emotions and the DB strategy to act happy. To give myself a little break, I also have so little contact with him at this point that I have no practice at it.

So now I haven't heard from him in a week.

At this point, I have only 3 things in my favor:
1. We still have comingled accounts and he is paying the mortgage, so we remain linked financially.
2. He still gets his mail here - although it looks like I will have to start bringing it to him at work. (We work in the same town.)
3. We are still in MC and have 2 more sessions scheduled - it was his choice to continue.

Over the summer, I asked him to see his doctor about his insomnia/depression. This wasn't well received. I still think he needs a screening for depression, but I don't think he'll get help. The MC hasn't suggested it. I've thought of asking his sister to try to encourage that, but I've had no contact with his family since he left and I don't want to stir the pot.

I don't really understand what is going on. He's not doing a lot of the things that seem to be characteristic of MLC and I don't want to think there is another woman. In my mind, none of the problems in our M are a deal breaker. I don't see why he would leave me because he wants to "pop in" on people. I never stopped him from having a social life. I can't make sense of this. I want to be doing things to work on the issues and resolve them. I want to work on my marriage and make it more fulfilling for both of us.

I know that all I can do right now is give it time and be strong in allowing him space to make his choices. The problem is that I'm really not strong - I'm a mess. I try hard to have positive thoughts and focus on myself and GAL, but the negative thoughts and sadness and anxiety keep taking over. It's been 7 months since things got horrible and 3 months of living apart. I thought I might be in a calmer place by now. I cry way too much, including getting overcome when I'm at work - not a good thing. My family and a couple of friends have been life-savers. I don't think I'd have my head on straight if it weren't for them. I've made it very clear to everyone that my goal is to work things out, and they are all supportive of that. Even when I am a puddle of misery, they are positive and don't trash talk. I've also reached out to a couple of new friends - major for me as I am shy and reserved. Coming to this site and sharing my story is also a big deal for me.

I've found it really helpful to come to this site and see people honestly confronting their problems and keeping a good attitude in the face of really big challenges. I'm trying to learn from that. I also really like to see the stories of those who are seeing a positive result after going thru their own stuff. Somehow, seeing others' stories is a comfort. . . .

[lizzy]

Hi Seek! As I see it you have a couple of things in your favor. Your H hasn't filed and he is willing to do the MC. From what I have read here most WAS are not willing to do MC. You don't think your H is in MLC but I do see some signs of it.

My H started IC w/out my knowledge too. My H at least admits to depression although it wasn't getting better for a long time. I think in part that was due to his C sucking and in part to the pressure of living at home. You can't force your H to seek out hep for depression and if he finds out you talked to his sister about it he will be resentful.

Many WAS seem to revise the history of the R. So I'm not surprised to hear that your H views past events differently than you do. You won't be able to convince him that it happened a way differently than he "remembers" so don't try. It will only make him angry. Instead try to validate his feelings.

Are you in IC right now? If not I suggest you think about it. It really helped me pull myself together. You have a lot of challenges ahead of you, don't expect to conquer them all in a short time.

[sherrsue]

Wow, your sitch is a lot like mine. Married 23 years, same pattern of detachment, not wanting to do ANYTHING with me, just shutting me out. dropped the bomb in Sept, I agreed that it might be good to spend some time apart. He went out and bought a house, (supposedly as a good investment, v.s. spending money on rent) moved out Dec. 1st. So relatively a short separation, although he made it clear that before he closed on the house, that we were "Separated" (no sex, sleeping downstairs, not spending any time together, etc.) He too says he has a buildup of anger and resentment from years and years of nagging, rejecting him sexually, occasional verbal abuse on my part, all of which I fully own and have apologized over and over for, and have been making big changes. Like you said, none of the big things that are "deal breakers" in my book. No affairs (that I am aware of), no physical abuse, drugs, drinking, family problems,nothing like that. Although he left 4 years ago, claiming unhappiness, but returned home after 2 months.

In the past 4 years (after his initial leaving), we've been under a lot of stress, with 2 teenage girls, (one of who has been in trouble a lot and the oldest just left for college) his job has had a lot of turnover (new bosses) plus I had non-invasive breast cancer which required surgery and 6 weeks of daily radiation, and his father died last May. So, yes, it has been stressful at home for all of us, and I dont handle the stress well, and apparently took it out on him. I dont deny the inattention to our marriage, it just sort of got swept under the rug.

My H seems to want his own life too, being able to persue his sports and hobbies, which are all important to him, and a major source of disagreement with us. He spends more time with his buddies than he does his family, hunting, fishing, golfing, you name it, plus he is out of town a lot on business. So the definite disconnect was there long ago, but his hobbies and a demanding job take prescedence over our life. Since moving out, my H is detaching more and more too, after spending quite a bit of time together--and having a great time--at respective families over the holidays to keep up appearances(they dont know about the separation, only 2 close friends know--at his request to not broadcast it to friends and family). He basically wants to do his own thing.

You have more positive things going for you though--at least he will attend counseling--mine wont. Says he's not ready for that (?).He has rewritten our entire marriage, saying he was "miserable" and that we had no good times. My H too is depressed, I think, but wont seek help. God knows I am! Thats another thing--Xanax is a wonderdrug for me, taking the edge off so I can function. I, like you, was a complete mess for weeks. I know its temporary, but it definitely helps, along with my C. See if your Dr. will give you something to help you function.

Secondly, I have vowed NOT to bring up the R again, as it seems to agitate him--he wants to keep things light. Easier said than done, I know, but after backsliding many times with poor results, I think they just don't want to talk about it, so we must shut up. His other major complaints is that I'm too needy (working on that) and trying to push for answers/decisions. I would recommend to you that you just DONT CALL and DONT PUSH--those 2 things have definitely been my downfall. ITS SO HARD, I know--I seriously get panic attacks.

Mine started out by saying that he didnt know if he wanted to be married anymore, to now he wants a D, but is not ready to take that final step. I dont know how it got progressively worse after he moved out, but it seems I've pushed too hard. So, lighten up, dont make conversations long and drawn out, Ive begun to put a self-imposed limit on phone conversations, because I tend to try and keep him on the phone just because I'm desperate for contact.

So, I'm with you--I'm a mess and lonely too, and I panic when I think of the future alone. Try to take it one day at a time. Hang in there and keep me updated. Let me know what you have been doing that gets positive results. I dont know how they get over the anger and resentment and just start fresh--thats what I want to do, along with MC.

[lizzy]

You are right Seek our sitches are a lot alike. I have really cut back on the calling. I was shocked tonight when H called me after D and I left house. Wasn't planning to hear from him until he showed up tomorrow. I really don't remember what we were talking about and I couldn't figure out what he called about. When I asked what time he would be by in the morning he said that was why he called. I do try to end all the conversations so that I have a little control over the sitch and don't seem needy.

Sounds to me like you are doing great considering all the other mess you have been through.

Thank God for this site and the books. I have definitely learned to pull back and not push. I try to be the queen of cool and collected when H is around. I am starting to do more things for myself that I have always depended on H for.

My C told me that if I wanted some meds we could work that out but she didn't think it was necessary. I am actually functioning quite well and friends who know my sitch are amazed at how well I'm handling it. I think part of it is from the half of my genes I get from my mom and the other part is trying to keep it together for the Ds.

[seekpeaceofmind]

Thanks for stopping by sherrsue and lizzy.

Are you in IC right now? If not I suggest you think about it. It really helped me pull myself together. You have a lot of challenges ahead of you, don't expect to conquer them all in a short time.

I am in IC but I don't think it is helping other than as an outlet to talk about my feelings and get another perspective. I feel like I am not making much progress, but maybe I expect too much of myself. My bf says how strong I am, but I don't feel that way many days. Also, the R issues seem to be in plateau, so there is nothing new to work with. I have been thinking about checking out a support group for separated/divorced, and then maybe I can save my C sessions for either crisis or reconciliation work.

Let me know what you have been doing that gets positive results. I dont know how they get over the anger and resentment and just start fresh--thats what I want to do, along with MC.

I don't think I have actually done anything other than back way off and I honestly can't tell if that is getting results or not. At least it is not getting me fresh rejection! It's not fun to have your H politely decline your invite to give him a meal for his b'day. . . . I may be willing to wait for him to decide but I am not a glutton for punishment.

he wants to keep things light.

I think that is 99% of what is going on with my H. He just doesn't want to deal with conflict or drama. He wants things to be easy and convenient for him. He told our MC that he has to deal with conflict at work and doesn't want any at home. When the MC said that no conflict at home was not realistic, H seemed genuinely surprised to hear that. He has a lot to process to decide if he can put any of his emotional energy into R. Also, have been reading something lately (maybe Men are from Mars & Women are from Venus) that emphasizes how much men hate R talks. Mars/Venus definitely reminded me of the "men go into their caves" concept and I see a lot of that in how my husband is dealing with things. He wants to go off on his own and decide what he is going to do. He wants to solve his problem alone. He is willing to remain a partner with me financially, but there is no sense in his words or actions that we are in this together.

[seekpeaceofmind]

So, yesterday, I sent H a text msg to find out what he wanted me to do with his mail. He finally replied after a couple of hours that he has been out sick for a few days with double pneumonia. He asked if he could come over today and I said yes.
He didn't give me a time and showed up about 11:30 - I assumed he wouldn't be over until afternoon. I wasn't expecting him or waiting around and so his arrival was low key, which I thought worked out well. The dogs made a big fuss with him - they love attention and can make you feel very missed. He accepted some tea and we talked a while. I asked how much time he was out of work and he said he didn't know - maybe a week. I had done some shoveling this a.m. (we are having major snow this year). He said that he would clear the roofs, which I objected to both due to pneumonia and recent hernia surgery. Then I said "I'll let you do when you think best." I think autonomy is one of his big issues right now so I caught myself and made a little joke out of saying that I would "let him" and changed it to saying I would respect his choice and asked as I was doing so if I could give him a kiss - and kissed his forehead. I don't know if he was actually pleased, but I think he was at least ok with it.

Honestly, all of this second-guessing myself and trying to get in someone's head - when that person is not very forthcoming - is enough to drive me nuts.

So he took care of the snow and ice on the roof (including unblocking my satellite dish - can't be without TV!). I really appreciated it and I think he wanted to help take care of things.

After that was done, he declined any lunch but said he would have another cup of tea. I did't really want to just sit around and talk again because I thought it would get awkward, so I asked if he wanted to play Yahtzee while we had tea. Sounds dumb, but it's something to do and focus on to keep it more light and easy. While we played a couple of rounds we talked some more - no R talk, but we started to get into finances which gets right to the edge of R talk. Because he now has an apartment and whatever related expenses and also bought a car for his use after he moved, our finances are in a very different place than before. Make that my finances. . . Anyway, I felt like it went ok.

I am in IC but I don't think it is helping other than as an outlet to talk about my feelings and get another perspective. I feel like I am not making much progress, but maybe I expect too much of myself.

Do you have any defined goals in IC? I was going to IC for a few months before and during the start of my sitch, and it ended up being pretty much useless.

I would decide if you want a 'vent session' each time you go, or if you want to work on some deeper things. Getting an outside opinion is great, but it's time consuming and expensive if you don't feel you're making any progress.