Advice regarding counseling

[Michael Mc C]

All - just a new, temporary thread so I can try to get some input from everyone. I have posted this question on my "normal" thread but would like to see what information or advice I can receive separately.

My wife has agreed to counseling but she has made it clear that she still wants to seek a divorce. She is still involved with the OM (long distance). I have heard from some that it's worth a shot. My insurance will pay 100% of the cost for 8 sessions and, while we may end up needing more, I want to make the most of what we can get up front.

If we give counseling a shot, I want it to be under the best possible circumstances - i.e., with the OM there, not sure there is much benefit to the marriage (again, she wants out!)

I have read sitches of others (Rob1231 and Frank_D) whose spouses still wanted D but the OM was no longer around (I think).

Does anyone have an opinion on this? I know that if we go we would need to set some goals. My goal, of course, is to rebuild the marriage. W's goal will be to work through the D as amicably as possible.

Is marriage counseling worthwhile if one spouse wants out and has plainly stated they don't want to fix the marriage? Especially if they have "salvation" waiting in the wings?

Thanks,
Michael

[Ohio_Mark]

My wife refuses counseling, so consider yourself lucky.

I have read other threads where one spouse was "divorce, divorce, divorce" all through counseling. You know the drill, "I want out NOW!" Meanwhile, the LBS continued to DB.

And the benefit of counseling was that the WAS had an "out." Counseling gave them a way to "save face," rather then grovel back on hands and knees. They could bring reconcilliation up (or let the counselor do so) without it appearing as if they have really changed their mind.

So I think it's a good thing that you should pursue. IMO...

[Heartbroken]

We went to a MC though at the time I was clueless about his OW...he just was unhappy... He faked 8 sessions and finally the MC said this was not a marriage problem this was an H problem. She met with him one last time and he said she told him to just D - WOW! Even H was not 100% sure and I researched C's to find her - knew someone who used her. This MC said she was PRO -Marriage - yeah right.

Someone on the boards suggested calling the DB number and ask them to recommend a C - I would be sure to find one that is coginitive based. You need fixes right away NOT an over analysis of your childhood traumas...

Good Luck!!

HB

[Michael Mc C]

I think it's a good thing that you should pursue. IMO...

This seems to be the general consensus from folks on the board as well as friends and co-workers. I'm gun shy, I guess. After all this time wanting counseling she has finally agreed but more because she feels it will be a pre-requisite to the big D.

The one saving grace is that W has explicitly stated that she wants me to understand "where she is and why". If that's the case, then the C may insist that she needs to understand where I am and why as well as shedding some light on why she "feels" the marriage should end. Much better than me trying to convince her that this stuff is predictable, fixable, and far from unique.

[MaxP]

I managed to convince my W to go to counseling. We only went to 3 sessions in the end, during which she became a WAW. We identified some interesting patterns of interaction*, but her view was always that she didn't necessarily want to save our R. She also really didn't like the fact that in her opinion I seemed to be looking for a fix. The counselor said that there was no point attending if there was no common goal so we stopped going.

It is likely my W agreed to go to demonstrate there was nothing to save from her point of view. Ever since the bomb her mind has been made up. I found the whole process thoroughly depressing. I wished the C had challenged my W more. She (my wife) was very disengaged during the whole process - it's not what I want, etc. She also didn't like talking about the R with someone else present, although talking to her friends about our R in far more detail than she ever spoke to me with was ok apparently.

If you do go, find a very good counselor who is pro marriage. Ours was a trainee and I regretted that. Also, my W and I were in individual counseling at the same time. I think what was going on in my W's sessions had far more impact on the fact that we split up than the joint sessions. In many respects I am still in the dark and have had to deduce everything myself.

Sorry I can't be more positive. I do think your W needs to be challenged and engaged if you do go. Especially as she sounds like she is seeking validation.

Max

* Having identified these patterns, my W decided that it was far easier to apply any knowledge to a future R, not ours. She basically ran away from her issues and is now in a new R. No doubt she's done nothing to sort herself out. My guess is that new R was already in play at the time she left.

[Michael Mc C]

It is likely my W agreed to go to demonstrate there was nothing to save from her point of view. Ever since the bomb her mind has been made up.

That's a big concern of mine. She has never wanted to see a C and has only once, while OM was out of the picture, stated that she was no longer gung-ho on D.

Having identified these patterns, my W decided that it was far easier to apply any knowledge to a future R, not ours.

That's something I have been thinking about. I read the Mars/Venus book and thought "wow, W should read this!" But then I realized that she would likely use the info to help make the R with her "soulmate" everything it could be.

[Michael Mc C]

He faked 8 sessions and finally the MC said this was not a marriage problem this was an H problem.

Wow, I can almost see the same happening.

I am leaning towards going and to make the best of it. I will take the advice offered here though and ask the C questions up front (I have a call into her now). Having never done this I can't even imagine how the C would challenge the WAS in a constructive way. But then that's why they make the big bucks...

[Rob1231]

Hi Michael,

My W agreed to go to counseling early in the sitch - sounds like she was where your W is now. In these sessions, she was all about "The M is over - D is inevitable - and I want to use counseling to make this all as easy and painless as possible on all three of us (we have a teenage daughter)."

The MC (who was VERY pro-M - I agree, this is CRITICAL) did help us see some of the places where we had "gone off the tracks" and how our interactions were poor. However, W heard this from the MLCer point of view of "Great, now I know how to do things better in my next M." Any time I tried to get us moving towards saving the M in our sessions, W immediately got mad and put up her walls. It was another case of those "R talks" that she didn't want to hear and saw them as me once again pointlessly, frustratingly pursuing her.

After about three sessions, the MC suggested that we were not getting anywhere together, and that we should do individual counseling for the time being, with occasional sessions together to touch base on where everyone stood. I continued to see this C on an individual basis - she was great at helping me with DBing and GALing. W went and found another IC - so, at least going together got her over the "hump" of thinking she needed some help with her MLC issues.

Bottom line: No one - not you, not a C, not a friend - can talk your W out of what she is feeling right now. If you go into counseling with that as your goal, you will fail. If you go in with much less pressure on her - use it as a way to keep some lines of communication open, and to help W start down a road of self-examination and growth herself - then it can be helpful. In either case, remember that the solutions to your problems start with YOU, not with your W or your relationship with her.

Best of luck,
Rob

[ChuckF]

Good morning, Michael,

MC is not the goal, and you have seen where it has backfired at times. It is an opportunity, though. W probably believes she knows you and that you'll never change. This is a chance to challenge this. What does she expect from you in C? Probably that you will recruit CR to talk her into returning to M. If you give her what she expects, esp if it's negative, she's more confident she can walk away.

My suggestion, if she has agreed to go, is to begin with something she does not expect, like "I'm here to learn to be a better listener (or partner or communicator or parent - whatever you would genuinely like to improve about yourself)." It switches the whole dynamics from adversary to partnership - you've just asked for her (and CR's) help in becoming a better you! That can be very attractive and give her a vested interest in the outcome.

Something to consider, my friend.

[Michael Mc C]

Thank you all for the insight so far. I have a lot to absorb but I think that in the end I will agree to move forward with MC (who would have ever thought that I would need convincing???)

I have a call into the C at the moment so I am hoping she calls back soon. Just some basic questions.

I like the idea of using counseling to help me become a better communicator and parent, not only because this is something she wouldn't expect from me but because this is a goal that I can actually see being met.

Thanks again everyone!