BlueJay's Story

[Lillieperl]

Very late over here, but just a word or two... don't give up on women, your anger and bitterness are understandable, but not all women are like your W with you-- truly, DO consider therapy. You're young, your life CAN be better.

[Martelo]

BJ

Sounds like your in a sh*ty spot right now, that sucks.

While you may think that women are only sexually attracted to jerks its not necessarily the jerkiness that they may be attracted too but other aspects of the behavior.

Confidence, speaking ones mind, not looking for others approval, being direct, valuing oneself and "taking up space in the world" are all very attractive things that jerks do by accident. You can have all these qualities and be a good man.

[NNP1965]

Hi Blue, I am so sorry you are in such pain. I can really feel it through your writing.

I am not very good at expressing myself so I hope what I am about to write makes sense.

You wrote:

I'm very happy that things are working out for you, though.

Things are not JUST working out for me. I honestly have no idea if my marriage will survive in the end. When I have done all my work on me, I still have an H who has his own issues, but refuses to acknowledge them. What I am focusing on right now is making myself a whole and healthy person. Because of that I can see some positve things happening in my marriage and that gives me great hope where there used to only be desperate wishing.

Sometimes I feel like I do not belong on these boards since I don't really fit anywhere, but DBing is honestly about working on ones self. So I continue to hang around, kind of like a bad penny.

I agree that you should not pursue your wife or try to get her to do anything. I think what you need to do is work on you and let me caution you it won't be easy. It's not magic, it is very hard work, kind of like losing weight... but it is so worth it in the end.

It's possible that once you realize what an awesome man you are, she may realize it too. Maybe not, maybe her issues will keep her from it. I hope not. All you can really do is work on you.

[NNP1965]

One more thing before I step down from my soap box...

I believe I read that you have two boys? So do I. What keeps me going is that the work I am doing on me is benefiting them. I always thought those plaques that said stuff like Be what you want your children to be were just cliques, but now I realize it is so true. No matter what we try and teach our children, what they learn is what they SEE.

[MJontheMend]

Hi,

I'm glad my questions made you mad because you have a bad case of the same bug that used to plague me and still occasionally creeps back to bite a bit. IMO, getting angry is one step forward from simply feeling like cr*p about the situation.

What Martelo had to say on the question of "jerks" is very relevant. For purposes of reptilian sex only, most women would rather f*ck a strong "bad" guy than a weak "good" guy. IMO, this is due to the fact that a female can never know or control the results of a war between the gorillas and genetics would favor the survival of her stronger monkey offspring. However, the advice your female relatives gave you actually was correct. Women will choose to marry and form families with "nice guys" for reasons having to do with establishing a different level of security for their offspring. The adult women in your life were giving you advice about pair-bonding, not about sex. The important thing to remember is that every single "nice guy" on this BB is capable of being a "jerk" in the right context and vice-versa. The reason I know this is that I am sometimes capable of "nice/easy girl" behavior so extreme that I can watch Boy-Next-Door-Opie transform into Billy-the-Bad-*ss right before my eyes.

Anyways, I have learned a lot since I was feeling sad/mad like you are and I would sum up that knowledge under the heading "Empathy for the Sexual/Pair-Bonding Tendencies of the Opposite Sex.". Your despair will leave you stuck on a sandbar in the sexual sea. Your anger will cause you to try and sail against the wind. Knowledge and empathy will help you progress.

[Lillieperl]

BlueJay, your W's sexual assault very much plays into her feelings about her own sexiness, what she deserves in a man, what she thinks will make her happy, etc. Do not discount this!

It could be that at the time she married you, she did not see you as a man who would have much in the way of sexual desire... because of your weight. It's very likely that she fell in love with you because you seemed safe to her. This is not a bad thing. Partners need to feel safe with each other. Walking the line between safe and "dangerous" (as Mojo described) enough to be sexy is tricky. It's the subtext of a lot that we talk about on these boards.

Then when you lost weight and became potentially and then actually a guy who was going to WANT sex, she may have felt subconsciously that you had broken the deal. This is just rampant amateur psychology on my part-- I don't think she intends ANY of this. She's just scrambling for survival... with this gaping wound, and precious few emotional/spiritual resources.

Your anger is totally understandable... but staying stuck there will not be good for you. You have 50+ years of life ahead of you... you're too young to give up. (I know you aren't really giving up... you're just venting right now. ) There is help for you out there. There is help for her, too, but she has to see it and be interested.

Sometimes when one partner goes to therapy, the other partner sees such a change that they get curious and become interested AS LONG AS THERE IS NO PRESSURE FROM THE FIRST PARTNER TO GO TO THERAPY.

You have nothing to lose by confronting these issues (yeah, she picked you and let you down, but YOU picked HER, too...) with a professional. EVERYONE has issues. It's not a case of mostly healthy people walking around and a few screwed up people messing it up for the rest of us. We're like pieces of a puzzle, and we attract people whose puzzle pieces fit ours.

What kind of work do you do?

[Lillieperl]

NNP, you're totally welcome here.

[Crazy Eddie]

Hi NNP.

Thanks for the kind words, but I have to admit, these days I don't feel awesome about much.

I understand what you are saying about the counselling. I don't want to go to marital counselling. I've been hurting for so long in this stupid marriage, I'm just tired of it. I don't want to try anything anymore. I just want out. The thought of doing anything that could translate to pursuing her, makes my stomach hurt. I'm done.

As for individual counselling, yeah, it would probably do me a world of good until I walked in my front door and was faced with this marriage. I think I'm really in a bad place where I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel, so I don't want to bother with anything that might make the light appear, because I believe there is no light. Does that makes sense?

Yes.

But improving something in your life through your own efforts can't help but make you more attractive. Not to say that the particular person you're married to is guaranteed not to remain immune to your charms, but it'll put the odds more in your favor. And if you've got enough confidence and basic happiness, facing a cold or unaffectionate or angry wife gets a whole lot easier, because it's a lot easier to see that whatever's eating at her is more about her than about you, since you have already demonstrated to yourself that you're not a worthless failure.

Therapy and medication can help with the confidence.

As for what women are attracted to, a lot of it is strength and confidence. Sometimes they'll put up with a jerk for a while because his confidence is so damn sexy, just like a man will sometimes put up with a bitchy or stupid woman for a while if she's got a smoking hot body, but it doesn't last. And on the other hand, a man can love a seriously overweight woman and want to spend the rest of his life with her while not being all that enthusiastic about having sex with her, while a woman can be in a similar situation with respect to a "nice guy" that she genuinely likes but isn't as attracted to as she herself wishes she could be.

[RedHeadWife]

BJ: I just wanted to say that I truly hope you decide to go for some therapy on your own. Even if you decide to stay w/ your W and nothing changes on her part, I hate to see you so angry. You know, my H was at that point when he finally dropped the D bomb on me. He was so angry and just had so much pent up anger that he had held onto for so long.

I just wanted to say that I hate seeing someone so miserable! Do it for yourself and your children. Figure out how to be a happy, skinny man no matter what your W decides to do or not do.

[believing_isaiah43]

EVERYONE has issues. It's not a case of mostly healthy people walking around and a few screwed up people messing it up for the rest of us. We're like pieces of a puzzle, and we attract people whose puzzle pieces fit ours

Excellent point, and thanks for reiterating that b/c my H likes to think 95% of 'everyone else' is healthy and he could have had it better/easier with someone w/out my issues. Granted, it's perhaps true in places, no doubt, but I think we subconsciously choose people who bring out our Big Fat Issues, in order to work thru them. (Or in order for them to destroy us, I think on my more cynical days)

Reading an interesting book (not related to an SSM) called The New Rules of Marriage. I thought the first chapter was wacky, BUT I picked it up in the library and randomly read in the middle and realized it was more honest than some 'marriage' books out there, so I brought it home. I recommend it - gotta get to work, so I can't find the author right now but his first name is Terrance.