hey all.... i posted this in a thread as a response from a fellow db'er. I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has had these ebbs and flows...
Whew! What a weekend....It started by me repeating the mantra in my head over and over... don't talk about it...don't talk about it.....
So Friday was cool... I did a few things when I got home... she went to the grocery, came home, and the kids had some friends over. They left and we made something to eat, and had a few glasses of wine. Talked about her work, my work. Just the two of us... the kids were watching tv.
Saturday, another busy day. I left early with my two boys, to go somewhere, and she stayed with my d and took her to her hair appt./bday party and a few other things.
Again, the mantra - don't talk about it. I took my younger s to the lake while we were waiting for our son who had an obligation, we were just sitting on the dock talking, and the phone rang... it was my W. Hey, what are you doing? all that. exchanged some talk... [that's what i have a hard time with... she's reaching out, and i have to talk to her... but should i??? i didn't call her tho - so that's one good thing]
Got home, did some yard work. We went out with some family members and all came back to our house. Had a little bday celebration for my W's Father.
Around 11, people started leaving. My S hung out and we started talking. W said HER sister was acting very distant. Talked about that for awhile. My S doesn't know anything about my sit.
My S leaves and the kids are in bed. Couple of glasses of wine, and my W starts talking about her sister. How she told her sister that she has feelings for another guy. My W says she has not told her about the A, but just that she has feelings. She said her sister has not given her any support other than, you can't help who you fall in love with...which is a cry for help from her sister, who's husband is a little less than perfect, and she knows my W doesn't really like him. My S-I-L and I are pretty close. We've known each other for a long time, and I really think she's a great person. Well, this conversation keeps evolving. And I've had some drinks, and I'm thinking of what everyone said here, and then what if this was the only time I could bring things up... AAAAAHHHHH!
So, I said, don't feel guilty about what you did. You did what you did... but don't feel guilty. She just looked at me like, Yeah, right. "But I have feelings for this guy..." I blurted out, I know, you've been sleeping with him more than once... it's been going on for some time..." she just kinda nodded. I said, I've been reading some stuff, and this is normal behavior in these kinds of situations... and yes... YES, YES, YES... i brought up the shaving of the pubic hair.... GOD. But she just said... Really? I don't think that correlates to when I started this... really? She sorta laughed and said, what in the hell are you reading??
So we talked, and she says she's confused... the OM could have anyone... but her??? She said, he goes for blonds with big boobs... I'm not that! He's cute, he could have anyone... and he likes me.
I said, stuff like he's conquered the ultimate... a good looking married woman... he's basically set out for the unattainable... and she sorta agreed. She said she never talked about me with him. Never complained about me. At one point she said something like why can't we [me and her] just be best friends??? But we have the kids and and we really like/love each other... and she would interject with BUT ME???? Who would of thought ME to have an affair.
I brought up thoughts of them at a hotel close by their work... and she said, I never, ever, ever did that... which lends me to believe that their sexual episodes were more-or-less spontaneous. After reading that book, the author mentioned penis size... jesus... I was really blurting out stuff... and she said - believe me, it's not about that... and don't worry about that, you more than win at that part.... okay... so that got the testosterone pumping. So I said, W, I love you, but I don't want to be a pansie here. I'm not going to be a pansy... I say I love you and I forgive you and I don't want you to feel guilty about something that you did and can't take back... you just can't take it back, so you have to move on.
She said, I know you must of talked to someone, because you've really backed off... given me space. You're really letting me be. OH, I forgot, but when we went out, she wore her wedding ring... both saturday and sunday. BUT she didn't wear it to work today... she wears a lot of rings and bracelets and sometimes will use other rings... but it was an observation... I thought, in the back of her head maybe to alert her sister to her working at "us" --- but I know that could be wishful thinking. So, I was pleasently surprised to see how she noticed that I was trying to give her space.
So we started talking about her sister again and all that. It was getting late, and we went to bed. That's where the TST was still pumping... she kisses me good night... and one thing lead to another and we did some crazy, passionate LM. It was truely so intense... almost like everything was out there in the open. She openly admitted a few times that she had feelings. And things were hard, but she is trying to work through them... It was intense... She even said, I love you a couple of times...But we finally went to bed. I know we were buzzing from wine... but the next morning she was cuddling into me and we were back at it.
Yes, I'm confused. I'm scared. I'm feeling in control a bit more.. but thoughts go through my head about her going back to him and all that. I did ask her about maybe attending Retrouvaille - she kinda was unsure, but I said we can look into and decide later. I also brought up counseling, and she said, "right now i'm so tired about talking about it, i just want to forget everything"
I know she really likes/loves this other guy... and it's probably really frustrating for her... I acknowledged that to her the night before. But they see each other everyday... and that scares me. They aren't in direct contact, but he's in their office, and they are all friends... i asked if they talk, and she said no... but she said sometimes she feels things when he'll say, have a nice night, or happy halloween... or just little comments. So I'm sure she's frickin' going crazy.
I was checking phone numbers on my last bill a few days ago, felt one of them was his... and called it. It was. So he showed her the phone number, and he said, if he wants to talk, just tell him to call... it's all on the table now.
Of course I declined right now.
So that's where I'm at right now. Sunday was pretty good. Did some Christmas shopping with the kids... spent the day together as a family... that's stressful in itself with a 14yo having to tagg along... but we ended on a nice note... i stayed up and did the bills, and she went to bed first early. I stayed up on purpose... not wanting to jump in there with her right away. She was asleep when I got to bed, and I got up early to workout. Woke her up and kissed her forehead and said, i'm off... I love you. She said I love you too.
I know I initiated it. I shouldn't have. But I just wanted her to know that.
So that's me. Blather mouth. I do think about what you all say here. I don't take it lightly. I apologize if it looks like I'm asking for advice, and then not taking it. It just was an opportune time to talk about it... initiated by her.
I'm making an appointment with my coach so I can talk through this... Any thoughts, comments or anything is welcomed.
Wow! Can't post much now. I'll try to comment more later. Yes, you ran your mouth a bit much, but it doesn't sound like it had too much of a negative effect considering there was intimacy that night. (very jealous here)
[that's what i have a hard time with... she's reaching out, and i have to talk to her... but should i??? i didn't call her tho - so that's one good thing]
If she calls or initiatest the talking, then you should reciprocate. You don't want to alienate her if she is reaching out. On the other hand you should not go out of your way to initiate contact for no good reason.
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So I said, W, I love you, but I don't want to be a pansie here. I'm not going to be a pansy... I say I love you and I forgive you and I don't want you to feel guilty about something that you did and can't take back... you just can't take it back, so you have to move on.
This sounded like the most rationale part of the conversation and I think it is something they need to hear. They need to be able to let go of the guilt in order to move on.
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and one thing lead to another and we did some crazy, passionate LM. It was truely so intense... almost like everything was out there in the open. She openly admitted a few times that she had feelings.
Good for you. Little jealous here.
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I know she really likes/loves this other guy... and it's probably really frustrating for her... I acknowledged that to her the night before. But they see each other everyday... and that scares me. They aren't in direct contact, but he's in their office, and they are all friends... i asked if they talk, and she said no... but she said sometimes she feels things when he'll say, have a nice night, or happy halloween... or just little comments. So I'm sure she's frickin' going crazy.
That they are in the same office and see each other regularly would definitely be a concern. I wonder if she is telling the truth when she says they don't talk. Could it be that this guy really isn't interested in her anymore after having gotten what he wanted? Sounds possible that he's moved on and she's stuck with the feelings.
Overall, it sounds like things turned out on a positive note from your post. Definitely keep suggesting the Retro weekend and work on getting to a good counselor.
I don't know if this will matter to you or not, but something that stuck with me about your post is that you told your W that you don't want her to feel guilty.
Do you really not want her to feel guilty? Or did you mean to say that you don't want her to push you away because of her feelings of guilt?
I guess the reason I ask is that it's important to let her have her feelings, but also important that she understand that you aren't holding them against her as far as reconciliation goes. IMO, guilt is an important part of the equation for a WAS to face and work through. I would really worry about the emotional health of a person who feels no guilt, KWIM?
many thanks for all of the kind and valuable words.
i had to speak to a coach yesterday, and he really got me thinking about myself. thinking about the future. good and bad. be prepared for the worst if the best doesn't happen. i will go on.
i also seem to focus on feelings quite a bit. wondering how the W is feeling... lonely, depressed, angry... i cannot control those feelings, and need to understand that each moment i waste concentrating on wondering about feelings, is a moment that i've taken away from being the best possible person i can be.
i guess my main concern are my children. i know i would be okay. i know it. i know it better day by day. but i fear for my children. long for them to have a traditional family with mom and dad at home. i took the leap yesterday, and started envisioning life by myself... on a positive note. thinking about how i would get along. it wasn't THAT bad. not that i want it to happen, but just in case.
i think the more i think about that, the more confident i become. yesterday i picked up a small gift for a friend of her's that she's taking to dinner tomorrow... and i made a small box for it. when i got home, she said, you didn't have to go to all that trouble... it's so nice... and she gave me a small kiss.
it meant a lot, but i didn't act like it did... but it was nice, and in front of the kids... so it did mean a lot.
so in finding myself, and gaining the self worth that i have lost over the past month or so, i find that i can be a better person... and forgiving is the main part of that. forgiving her as much as it hurt me. and understanding she didn't set out to hurt me, but it happened, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
sure, i think about the next phone bill... is his number going to be on there again? is she over him yet, does she still want to sleep with him... all that goes through my head and pierces my heart so deeply... but i need to move on and want to move on to the normalcy i long for... for those happy times in my memory when i was her only one and we had each other.
each day will strengthen me, and there will be set backs i fear... there just will be... but i need to go on. and i want you all to understand that each of us here need to do this... value ourselves first. easy to say, hard to do.
you all seem like such wonderful people... and i so wish that this board did not have to exist, but it does, and for that we are more fortunate, to hear the encouraging words, and help that we as total strangers want to provide to each other, because we alone know the true pain of all of this. if only the OM would of been so kind to see what he was doing to another person, and their family... forgiving him will be another step, i'm sure.... but it's just not that easy yet.
