So we're all here... wanting to move on. wanting to feel better about us. GAL. all of that.
So WHEN do we EVER bring up the topic? do we EVER bring the topic up, or just let the other person bring it up??
I guess i need to breathe. but i do want to say something, but i really think that will not help right now. so i know i'm answering my own questions here... but am i correct? we just NEVER bring it up again? unless prompted?
What topic? Let me guess, and I will answer each guess....
GALs? No 180s? No Divorce Remedy? No divorcebusting.com? No Separation? No Divorce? Marriage counseling? No Reconcilliation? No Working on the marriage? No Where were you? No Where are you going? No With whom will you be? No
Just get on with your life. Speak when spoken to, and begin a conversation only when necessary. Don't be rude. But don't pursue either. All the stuff above is pursuing. A no-no.
I know what you are saying though. You know you can't talk about that stuff, but sometimes I want to scream "When do *I* get to complain and tell you all the things I am feeling????"
lwb is right, but you have to mask all of the hurt. It's like putting a bandage on a wound. You don't see it, but it still hurts.
But..... you have moved on past the pain, and now you are out enjoying life, enjoying the kids.... let the wife be an idiot if she wants to. You are too busy to concern yourself with that.
Okay Mark, but here's the deal... She is REALLY proactive most of the time.
Like 5 minutes ago, I received an email from her asking what's up for tonight?
We have a bday party tomorrow, and some stuff. She's asking questions about that...It's weird... it's not she's walking around the house miserable... it's LIKE she's trying. and that's where i find difficulty... wouldn't NOT initiating conversation be as if i was attempting to make things difficult?
I'M SO CONFUSED!!!! I don't want to do the wrong thing...
I don't want to sound like a whiner... i'm just so f'n confused it hurts...
My best advice is to rebuild your friendship first. That's the foundation of the rest of your relationship - make it strong and solid before you try to pile more on top.
In the meantime, focus more on yourself - be a happy, strong, independent person. That way, no matter what happens in your M - you're good. Either you are still a happy, strong, independent person whose nutso wife couldn't see it - or you are a happy, strong, independent person in a marriage that is getting better.
It's hard to imagine it at this point, I know - but you need to approach this as creating a win/win situation for yourself. Does that make any sense?
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
Whew! What a weekend....It started by me repeating the mantra in my head over and over... don't talk about it...don't talk about it.....
So Friday was cool... I did a few things when I got home... she went to the grocery, came home, and the kids had some friends over. They left and we made something to eat, and had a few glasses of wine. Talked about her work, my work. Just the two of us... the kids were watching tv.
Saturday, another busy day. I left early with my two boys, to go somewhere, and she stayed with my d and took her to her hair appt./bday party and a few other things.
Again, the mantra - don't talk about it. I took my younger s to the lake while we were waiting for our son who had an obligation, we were just sitting on the dock talking, and the phone rang... it was my W. Hey, what are you doing? all that. exchanged some talk... [that's what i have a hard time with... she's reaching out, and i have to talk to her... but should i??? i didn't call her tho - so that's one good thing]
Got home, did some yard work. We went out with some family members and all came back to our house. Had a little bday celebration for my W's Father.
Around 11, people started leaving. My S hung out and we started talking. W said HER sister was acting very distant. Talked about that for awhile. My S doesn't know anything about my sit.
My S leaves and the kids are in bed. Couple of glasses of wine, and my W starts talking about her sister. How she told her sister that she has feelings for another guy. My W says she has not told her about the A, but just that she has feelings. She said her sister has not given her any support other than, you can't help who you fall in love with...which is a cry for help from her sister, who's husband is a little less than perfect, and she knows my W doesn't really like him. My S-I-L and I are pretty close. We've known each other for a long time, and I really think she's a great person. Well, this conversation keeps evolving. And I've had some drinks, and I'm thinking of what everyone said here, and then what if this was the only time I could bring things up... AAAAAHHHHH!
So, I said, don't feel guilty about what you did. You did what you did... but don't feel guilty. She just looked at me like, Yeah, right. "But I have feelings for this guy..." I blurted out, I know, you've been sleeping with him more than once... it's been going on for some time..." she just kinda nodded. I said, I've been reading some stuff, and this is normal behavior in these kinds of situations... and yes... YES, YES, YES... i brought up the shaving of the pubic hair.... GOD. But she just said... Really? I don't think that correlates to when I started this... really? She sorta laughed and said, what in the hell are you reading??
So we talked, and she says she's confused... the OM could have anyone... but her??? She said, he goes for blonds with big boobs... I'm not that! He's cute, he could have anyone... and he likes me.
I said, stuff like he's conquered the ultimate... a good looking married woman... he's basically set out for the unattainable... and she sorta agreed. She said she never talked about me with him. Never complained about me. At one point she said something like why can't we [me and her] just be best friends??? But we have the kids and and we really like/love each other... and she would interject with BUT ME???? Who would of thought ME to have an affair.
I brought up thoughts of them at a hotel close by their work... and she said, I never, ever, ever did that... which lends me to believe that their sexual episodes were more-or-less spontaneous. After reading that book, the author mentioned penis size... jesus... I was really blurting out stuff... and she said - believe me, it's not about that... and don't worry about that, you more than win at that part.... okay... so that got the testosterone pumping. So I said, W, I love you, but I don't want to be a pansie here. I'm not going to be a pansy... I say I love you and I forgive you and I don't want you to feel guilty about something that you did and can't take back... you just can't take it back, so you have to move on.
She said, I know you must of talked to someone, because you've really backed off... given me space. You're really letting me be. OH, I forgot, but when we went out, she wore her wedding ring... both saturday and sunday. BUT she didn't wear it to work today... she wears a lot of rings and bracelets and sometimes will use other rings... but it was an observation... I thought, in the back of her head maybe to alert her sister to her working at "us" --- but I know that could be wishful thinking. So, I was pleasently surprised to see how she noticed that I was trying to give her space.
So we started talking about her sister again and all that. It was getting late, and we went to bed. That's where the TST was still pumping... she kisses me good night... and one thing lead to another and we did some crazy, passionate LM. It was truely so intense... almost like everything was out there in the open. She openly admitted a few times that she had feelings. And things were hard, but she is trying to work through them... It was intense... She even said, I love you a couple of times...But we finally went to bed. I know we were buzzing from wine... but the next morning she was cuddling into me and we were back at it.
Yes, I'm confused. I'm scared. I'm feeling in control a bit more.. but thoughts go through my head about her going back to him and all that. I did ask her about maybe attending Retrouvaille - she kinda was unsure, but I said we can look into and decide later. I also brought up counseling, and she said, "right now i'm so tired about talking about it, i just want to forget everything"
I know she really likes/loves this other guy... and it's probably really frustrating for her... I acknowledged that to her the night before. But they see each other everyday... and that scares me. They aren't in direct contact, but he's in their office, and they are all friends... i asked if they talk, and she said no... but she said sometimes she feels things when he'll say, have a nice night, or happy halloween... or just little comments. So I'm sure she's frickin' going crazy.
I was checking phone numbers on my last bill a few days ago, felt one of them was his... and called it. It was. So he showed her the phone number, and he said, if he wants to talk, just tell him to call... it's all on the table now.
Of course I declined right now.
So that's where I'm at right now. Sunday was pretty good. Did some Christmas shopping with the kids... spent the day together as a family... that's stressful in itself with a 14yo having to tagg along... but we ended on a nice note... i stayed up and did the bills, and she went to bed first early. I stayed up on purpose... not wanting to jump in there with her right away. She was asleep when I got to bed, and I got up early to workout. Woke her up and kissed her forehead and said, i'm off... I love you. She said I love you too.
I know I initiated it. I shouldn't have. But I just wanted her to know that.
So that's me. Blather mouth. I do think about what you all say here. I don't take it lightly. I apologize if it looks like I'm asking for advice, and then not taking it. It just was an opportune time to talk about it... initiated by her.
I'm making an appointment with my coach so I can talk through this... Any thoughts, comments or anything is welcomed.
Sometimes rules are meant to be broken - it seems like you knew what you were doing and you didn't push it so hard that she shut down on you. That's the REAL danger of R talks - the WAS is not ready to hear them, so the talk is 100% pressure / pursuit in their eyes - which is pretty much guaranteed to set your efforts back. On top of that, our WAS's are so flaky and unpredictable, you can never be really sure when it's a "safe" time to bring this stuff up.
So, you did OK. Just be careful not to be given an inch and try to take a mile. Back off a bit, certainly in terms of R talks, and re-focus on your DBing - GALing, PMA, etc. That's what got you this far - right? So that's what you want to keep up. "More of what works, less of what doesn't."
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
thanks rob... i really appreciate it. you're so right about giving a an inch to take a mile. i guesss the principles were/are working, and i'm trying my damndest to understand them and practice them.
