Actually, my goal is more like NON-SEXUAL affection.
CeMar, this has NEVER been the impression that I have gotten from you. NEVER, NOT ONCE...have I ever even gotten the inkling that this is your goal....and that is impression from YOUR posts. You still come across as "All or nothing", if she doesn't do exactly as YOU think it should be...then she couldn't possibly be desirious of you....when she's NOT you to behave as you think she should.
I really think you need to do some deep down, "Come to Jesus" soul searching as to what you REALLY need out of your relationship. As has been told to you a long time ago, and I remember saying it...many times what we think we want, what we think we need...isn't truly what we are lacking. CeMar, find yourself a therapist, you truly need one. You need someone who can look you in the eye and call bullshit on you, or determine when something hits too close to home when talking with you, or even can SEE the pain when an issue is broached. You need someone who can truly help you ferret out issues, that lay within YOU.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how any of us can help you...because YOU continue to choose to remain in this circular thinking. You have yet to make the choice to hit the brakes. You have yet to dig deep and give revealing information that could be helpful, consistently.....lately you have given tidbits, a glimpse....but then you go right back to your circular thinking.
You claim to be so very logical, but what you are doing is far from logical CeMar.
I think... CeMar would like it if Mrs. CeMar kissed him, and a good kiss... because she wanted to.
Mrs. CeMar has not kissed CeMar, because she wanted to kiss him, in a very long time. Swap 'kiss' out with IC, or blow jobs, or swing from the chandeliers...
I think CeMar thinks Mrs. CeMar is BEING Mrs. CeMar, being in his life, being a mother to his children... because of her religious beliefs... not because of any feeling she has toward CeMar.
I think CeMar is jealous of God, and the importance He holds in her life. It trumps CeMar's own importance/value... in CeMar's eyes. It probably feels that way, too.
And, given CeMar's own religious convictions, it would be pretty dam self-serving to ask that Mrs. CeMar to stop putting God first, wouldn't it? And that gives Mrs. CeMar a whole lot of power, doesn't it?
If anyone understands these religious convictions... and where they are in their beliefs/convictions... it truly IS a no win situation.
Beyond my own opinions on any of this, I can see where CeMar feels hopeless and trapped, and like he is in a Catch 22.
He really is... given that he cannot give himself any way out.
I completely understand CeMar.....and Corri had it right for about the first three paragraphs...(maybe more....but, in as much as I relate to CeMar, just the first three)
LFL said: "Emotional desire, not sexual."
I promise you....this *IS* right on the money. The problem is that people like CeMar and I cannot comprhend how one does not lead to the other.
CeMar, I understand you MUCH more than you think.
I have NOT changed my wife to an HD.....but I have "backed off" and given her the opportunity to breathe. The aftereffect has been that....what she *has* given me (even if its not as much, or as often as I would like) has been given OUT OF *DESIRE* FOR ME. But her desire for me is on her terms, and her time table....not mine.
In other words....I came to accept that a blowjob not to completion, BUT GIVEN OUT OF WANT AND DESIRE, was better than the blowjob TO completion given out of "oh crap, do I have to?"
Once I wrapped my head around that....my life, and my sexual relationship with my wife got alot better......NOT PERFECT by my standards, but *vastly* improved.
I guess there was a certain amount of giving up. There was a bit of depression at first, because I truly believed that I was just going to be "stuck here". But then when my wife started to work through her bipolar issues, and started to become a noticably nicer person, I just decided that as long as I had to be married to her, I may as well be nice about it.....and then things just started to roll in a positive direction. The first step was kindof depressing though....because it kindof involved "giving up all hope".
Once I lowered my expectations....things just seemed a whole lot better, and not NEARLY as bad as I had feared.
I don't know....now that I read back on that, I don't think I'm saying it right.
It's better than it sounds.....trust me. Maybe I should just ponder my response more instead of writing "free form thought papers".
I have said all along, it is NOT about sex. It is about the DESIRE for sex. And the reason why is because the DESIRE for sex impacts a persons personality in a huge way. I have said it before, when my wife went from HD to LD, it was like a complete transformation of her personality. I have given lists before of what I want from her, and most of what was on those lists is NOT sex. How about something as simple as playfulness. I have said that I wanted her playfulness back. When HD, she was playful, as a LD, she has NEVER been playful like that. How about Flirtation? Flirting can be real hard when you have to THINK about it? Does this make any better sense?
What did you surrender and how did you reconcile it with your masculine pride?
masculine pride? hmmmmm
I never really viewed it like that. Sex is not (to me) about "masculine pride".....its about a deep emotional connection.
You can "stare" at someone in the eye, and it can be really annoying. When you feel a deep soul stirring emotional connection, you can gaze into someone's eyes forever, and never get tired. A *real* sexual experience is this same emotional connection times a thousand....and not something that could be repeated with just anyone.
