Just found out that OW has a kid!!

[Ophelia]

Actually, googling the number was the first thing I did, but I came up empty.

I'm glad there are like minded folks on this forum, because in real life, I usually feel pretty lonely with all my (former?) friends not seeming to bat an eye at H's behaviour.

I sent H a txt on the day he was due back from Africa, just saying that I hope he got home safely. Didn't get a response.

I'm wondering if I'll get an email tomorrow when he gets back to work, and I'm also wondering if I should send him an email first instead of just waiting for him to send me one. And if I do send him one tonight, should I mention wanting to catch up in person again, like I did in the note I left in his Bon Voyage card? Maybe I should just let him write to me first. At least that way I'll know what frame of mind he's in before I say anything. I just don't want him thinking that I'm not interested after the not txting him to see how the mountain climb went. *tears out hair in frustration*

Gotta go buy him a birthday card tomorrow, (it's his 30th on the 31st).

[strange]

Hi there...

Just wanted to say, keep your chin up girl...

Also..I am a firm believer in lifes strange little things.....The African person on the bus & the photo you found by the roadside...I always think that somewhere there is someone that is looking out for us.

Take care

Strange

[Ophelia]

Thanks, Strange. I believe in those little things that aren't mere coincidence as well. It feels like God, or the universe, or something giving me a sign that I shouldn't give up yet. But then I feel like I'm such an afterthought to him these days that it kinda knocks the hope right outta me again, so my head and my heart are on the craziest rollercoaster ever, (and I hate rollercoasters!!).

Got an email from him today. As I had suspected, he made no mention of us catching up in person, and instead gave me a link to the site where he's uploaded all of his holiday photos.

In one of them he's wearing this stretchy kinda pink headband, and the caption on the photo is something like, "The pink headband belongs to a friend. I promised I'd take it with me and get photographic evidence." Hmmm, "friend" indeed, I'm sure. He's wearing it in several photos, including one of him at the summit of the mountain. Now, I know it's slightly insane to get all bent out of shape over a frigging pink headband, but assuming the "friend" it belongs to is indeed OW, it pisses me right off that he kinda took her up the mountain with him. Meanwhile, I have no way of knowing if he took the St Christopher medal and compass charm I gave him, because he hasn't mentioned them.

It just gets to me because I'm the one he first told he was gonna do the climb, which was the big life affirming adventure for him, and it's like she's swooped in and stolen away the opportunity for me to share the experience with him.

He also asked in the email if I'd gotten the cheque yet, which must be the cash he owes me from the property settlement. Well no, I haven't gotten any cheque yet, and part of me kinda hopes it just gets lost in the mail so that I can say, "This wouldn't have happened if you'd just dropped by to give it to me in person."

Anyway, now I've gotta figure out how to broach the, "want to see you so I can give you a congratulatory hug for reaching the summit" topic. It really is pretty pathetic that it's been nearly a whole year since we last saw each other! Fair enough if he wanted to avoid me around the time I had my meltdown over him being with OW, but that was in January for God's sake. Is he scared to see me again, (and if so, why exactly)? Is that why he's avoided the topic for so long?

I sent him a birthday card yesterday. I take forever to pick out cards at the best of times, and this is far from being the best of times. There was one card that said on the Front: "Forget about the past. You can't change it." Then on the inside it said: "Forget about the present. I didn't get you one." I came *this close* to getting that one. Debated it for a good 10 minutes in fact! I'd called the medal and charm I gave him before he left for Africa an early birthday present though, so it didn't quite fit, and I over-analysed all the different ways he could have interpreted: "Forget about the past," and concluded that I didn't want him reading into that that he should forget about all the good times we had. You know you're losing your mind when you're trying to find the deep and philosophical meanings in the products of the good people at Hallmark.

I sent him a txt today just saying, "Happy Birthday, old man," (what with the turning 30 and the early mid-life crisis he doesn't think he's having and all). Took him several hours to reply, but I did eventually get a, "Thanx".

[Hope_11]

Ophelia,

I wanted to post to you because I thought that I might be able to give you a different perspective.

I have continued to follow your posts and I still sense a lot of anger on your part. Not that you don't have a right to be angry, but I just don't think that it's helping your well-being. I know how you feel...I know how it feels to be rejected, betrayed, and lied to. I've been there too.

I know way back when I first posted to you, you had mentioned that you didn't know if you would ever re-marry if you got divorced because you can't fathom loving someone else. Is this still the case? Here's the hard question....are you still in love with your H or do you just not want to be divorced? I think that is a question that we all ask ourselves. No one wants to be divorced period especially at 28 or 29, but I can honestly tell you that sitting on the other side divorced can be a whole lot better than living in hell. By the time my marriage was coming to an end, I learned a lot of things about my husband and my marriage. By the end, I was willing to stay because of my vows not because I was "in love" with him anymore. He was broken....he needed to do a lot of work on himself to be a good man and I don't think he ever will take the hard work to get there. If he would have given us a second chance, I would have taken it, but sitting here 2 months post-divorce I am starting my new life and I am enjoying it. I think that when affairs happen early in a marriage and there are no children involved, you have to take a good hard look at the situation and your spouse to see if there is anything worth saving. Our husband's made BAD choices for an extended period of time....they would have to do a lot of work on themselves before our marriages would ever have come to the point of being salvageable.

Someone posted this on another thread and I thought it might help you....

In response to the who is at fault question. I have looked at this myself and it is a difficult question to respond to..especially on this board. We are tainted by 'being ourselves' while looking at this question. Pointing fingers is probably a method of 'denial', a way to try and ease our pain by heaping more fault on our spouses.

Honestly tho', I think the real issue is that, because of some of OUR issues, we probably selected people who were due to 'break' at some point. Perhaps, we should take 100% of the blame for choosing the wrong person to marry? I've read all the comments about human imperfection, hurting the one you love, etc, but, is there really an excuse for lying, having an affair, lack of committment to a promise to stay 'for better or worse'? Did we fail to see that the person we married lacked the inner character to express the trait of integrity? Not sure there. There is no doubt that most of us here gave our spouses a little shove down the stairs, but, did we fail to see warning signs before be signed that marriage license?

When we get bombed we all tend to blame ourselves:
what did I do wrong?
this must be all my fault
shoulda, woulda, coulda


The real focus is WHY? Why did our marriages fail? I think too much focus is on WHO IS TO BLAME. I think we need to sort out what brought us together:
-why did we fall in love with our S?
-what were the attraction buttons?
-were they healthy?
-if healthy, where did we cause harm? was it faulty programming from our childhood?
-did we just grow in different directions
-etc
The final result is that we should choose to abandon fault, guilt and resentment. Focus on growth and change and learn how to cope with the loss of our beloved spouse...grieve..and move on if reconciliation is not possible.

[hurtandlost]

The final result is that we should choose to abandon fault, guilt and resentment. Focus on growth and change and learn how to cope with the loss of our beloved spouse...grieve..and move on if reconciliation is not possible. [/quote]

Hello Ophelia and Hope,

First of all Ophelia, I posted here because we have one thing in common, we both wanted kids but couldn't get around it. The woman who my husband encouraged to an emotional affair also has a kid.

One of the first things that have crossed my mind when all the mess happened to me was that because we had no kids and oh boy we tried, is that he didn't saw me as a woman for that as I had some kind of defect. I questioned myself so many times if that was an elephant in the room and we focused on our friendship instead of all the marriage parts.

I don't want to compare your situation with mine but I also see a great friendship between you and your husband.

As Hope said we keep playing the blame game. I totally agree with her on the part that I quoted.

I think though that we can not know a person at all as my great grandmother said until we are able to eat a whole cart of salt with them. People's background are hidden and we can only see their responses when they go through stuff, also they can change through their experiences on a Pavlovian way, we cannot anticipate what we will become. I agree that what they have done shows lack of integrity. But one thing I have learned here and by all the information I gathered is that there is a huge spectrum of cheater's types so I do not know if the lack of integrity is part of their character or situational insanity. Perhaps that will come with time case by case.

Right now, equipped with the things I have learned as Hope said, I am following up on the signs and trusting my gut feeling.

Mostly I am also searching for the key that will switch us back from friends to Human husband and Human wife, without the pink glasses, and if we will be able to accept each other truly as we are.

Good luck for you on your situation and remember that as cheesy as it seems, when a door shuts, a window will open.

[Ophelia]

Sorry its been so long since my last post.

I have continued to follow your posts and I still sense a lot of anger on your part. Not that you don't have a right to be angry, but I just don't think that it's helping your well-being. I know how you feel...I know how it feels to be rejected, betrayed, and lied to. I've been there too.

I'm most definitely still angry, at a whole lotta people for a whole lotta different things. I'm even angry at society in general for divorce having been accepted as an inevitablity, and marriage vows becomming a joke as a result.

One of the people I'm most angry at is myself. Angry for not noticing that H wanted out sooner. Angry for reacting in completely the wrong way when he left. Funnily enough, I've forgiven H for much of what he's done, but can't forgive myself for the role I've played in it all, and I think one of the reasons I can't forgive myself is because I feel that he hasn't forgiven me. I feel like he must be angry with me, because he's avoided me for the last year.

I ended up sending that email where I repeated that I wanted to see him, and jokingly threatened to show up at his work to give him the hug I want to give him for having climbed Kilimanajro. I suggested that he could come over for dinner one night, but knowing he probably wouldn't want to come to the house, I also suggested that we could meet up for lunch one day in a park or something. I said that basically, I'd like it to be somewhere where he could bring his laptop so he could show me all his photos and tell me all about Africa from beginning to end.

I sent that email about 3 weeks ago, and haven't gotten a reply.

I know it was shocking DBing, but I figured I didn't exactly have much to lose, and if I didn't force the issue then it was guaranteed that he'd just continue dodging the subject of seeing me. Now I'm left wondering if he hasn't replied because:
a) He's testing me to see if I actually will show up at his work, (something so bold would be totally out of character for me)
or b) He doesn't know how to tell me "No, I just don't want to see you," so is giving me the silent treatment in the hopes that I'll get the message.

Now, assuming it's the latter, is he doing that because:
a) He's just being nasty.
or b) He genuinely doesn't know how to say it. I think I may have mentioned before that at our last C session he said that he was now able to be more straightforward with people and just say what he's thinking, but he still couldn't do it with me. The only reason I can fathom that it would be so hard for him is if he does still care at least a little bit about hurting my feelings.

I know way back when I first posted to you, you had mentioned that you didn't know if you would ever re-marry if you got divorced because you can't fathom loving someone else. Is this still the case?

Yes, that is still the case.

Here's the hard question....are you still in love with your H or do you just not want to be divorced? I think that is a question that we all ask ourselves. No one wants to be divorced period especially at 28 or 29, but I can honestly tell you that sitting on the other side divorced can be a whole lot better than living in hell.

I've asked myself that question before. Wondering if I'm purely standing for my M on principle, or if I do still have genuine feelings for my H. I do still love him despite all he's put me through. I would still dearly love for us to have another chance. I'm not under any illusions that it'd be a simple thing, and know that we'd basically be starting from scratch, and we'd both have a helluva lot to make up for, but it's still what I want.

Honestly tho', I think the real issue is that, because of some of OUR issues, we probably selected people who were due to 'break' at some point. Perhaps, we should take 100% of the blame for choosing the wrong person to marry?

I think that perhaps I should have been less naive in believing that just because H married me, he believed 100% that he was always gonna stay with me. I took it for granted because that's the kind of family I grew up in. The kind where people get married and stay that way. It didn't occur to me that H might not feel the same, but it should have occured to me because both of his parents are divorced, and he's got a sister who is divorced as well. He grew up with D in his life, so I do feel kinda stupid for not seeing that he would still view it as an option. Then again, when you're young and crazy in love, the D word doesn't even enter your head.

The final result is that we should choose to abandon fault, guilt and resentment. Focus on growth and change and learn how to cope with the loss of our beloved spouse...grieve..and move on if reconciliation is not possible.

Which is of course much easier said than done.

First of all Ophelia, I posted here because we have one thing in common, we both wanted kids but couldn't get around it. The woman who my husband encouraged to an emotional affair also has a kid.

Sorry to hear you're in a similar boat, hurtandlost. Doesn't it drive you mad, thinking of your H playing daddy to a child that isn't yours?

People's background are hidden and we can only see their responses when they go through stuff, also they can change through their experiences on a Pavlovian way, we cannot anticipate what we will become.

One of the things the C said during one of our sessions was that people and relationships are constantly changing. My reponse to that was that a relationship doesn't break up every single time a person changes. It was like she was trying to console me that us changing as people is why this happened, but I still see it a pretty weak excuse for breaking up a 10 year relationship.

There are some reasons I can understand a relationship breaking up over. Like if one person becomes physically abusive and the other is actually in danger. In my book, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you," is not a reason you break up a releationship, it's a bullsh!t excuse for one party to put their tail between their legs and run away because it's the easy option.

I agree that what they have done shows lack of integrity. But one thing I have learned here and by all the information I gathered is that there is a huge spectrum of cheater's types so I do not know if the lack of integrity is part of their character or situational insanity. Perhaps that will come with time case by case.

I'm still going with "situational insanity" (love that!) in my case. Oddly enough, I think that H did his utmost to keep some of his integrity intact by not bedding anyone else until after he'd moved out of the house. He didn't want to "have an A" because that's what his father did, and he hated his father for that for a very long time. The problem is, I don't believe a M ends when living situations change, whereas H decided that once we weren't under the same roof anymore, all bets were off.

Anyway, I'm gonna put up the Christmas decorations this weekend in the hopes it might cheer me up a bit, but to be honest I'm looking forward to this Christmas about as much as I was last Christmas: ie, not much. This Christmas Eve will be the one year anniversary of the last time I saw and spoke to my H.

[Ophelia]

I think I'm having a bit of a freakout right now.

I've just been reading some stuff over in The Prayer Circle section of the forums. I was reading a thread where people were posting prayers they were saying for everyone who was trying to save their M. Some of them made me cry. I was sitting here thinking that I could really do with some kind of little sign that some of my own prayers had been answered lately, because I've been feeling pretty low with Christmas coming up and missing H more than ever.

Anyway, then I suddenly had the urge to check my email, which I hadn't done for a couple of days. I kind of dread it these days because I don't want to see that, "Sorry, I just don't want to see you" reply to my last email.

So I go and check my email and right at the top of the list is an email from H! He quit his job, and has gotten another one working a further distance from home, (it's actually quite a long commute). One paragraph of the email reads:

Problem with being on the Coast is I tend to leave at 7am and get home about 7pm and feel pretty exhausted. But I guess I could drop by and show you photos on Monday night after Oztag, since it's on my way home. That's if it's not too uncomfortable for you.

H actually agreeing to not only see me but to actually come to the house?!?

Then, as I was sitting here feeling a little bit stunned once I got to the end of the email, "Summer Of '69" by Bryan Adams comes on the radio. For anyone who hasn't read my ramblings before, H and I met and first became friends on an email mailing list for BA fans, the first day we met in person, we went into a music shop and he sat down at a piano and played "Everything I Do" for me, and he proposed to me when we were front row at a BA concert, and he was in the middle of performing "Everything I Do," (we were recording a bootleg of the show, and in the middle of the song you hear H saying, "Will you marry me?" and me screaming, "OMG yes!" ).

Basically, BA is one of our big "things", (if it weren't for that guy, we wouldn't have even met each other). So I was sitting here having read the prayer thread, hoped for a sign that my own had been heard, checked my email, saw H saying he can come over on Monday night, then a BA song instantly comes on the radio!! Like I said at the top of the post: freaking out!

I was already being an insomniac which is why I was checking out the forum to begin with. You'd better believe I'm wide awake now!!!

Holy CRAP! Am I actually going to get to see my H in about a week's time?!?! (that last smiley is because I know I'll be so nervous I'll want to throw up by the time Monday rolls around)

[NoCodeBlues]

Oh, wow, Ophelia.

Talk about a small world. My W and I had our wedding outdoors in a beautiful woodland setting, an amphitheater behind a church. I kid you not, it looked just like the wedding scene at the end of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. (W had her hair done up similar to Maid Marion's too.)

And guess whose music was our wedding theme song? You guessed it -- BA's "Everything I Do."

[hurtandlost]

Ophelia,

Good for you. I always believed prayers and positive thinking attracts emanates good vibes so the world around you notice it and send you good vibes right back.

[Ophelia]

Talk about a small world. My W and I had our wedding outdoors in a beautiful woodland setting, an amphitheater behind a church. I kid you not, it looked just like the wedding scene at the end of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. (W had her hair done up similar to Maid Marion's too.)

And guess whose music was our wedding theme song? You guessed it -- BA's "Everything I Do."

That sounds absolutely gorgeous, NoCodeBlues!

Speaking of Everything I Do, guess what was on the radio when it woke me up the day after the night when I got H's email! I hit the snooze button a few times, and then thought, "Well I'm basically awake now, but I'll hit it one more time anyway," and when it came on that last time, it was right in the middle of the song.

Good for you. I always believed prayers and positive thinking attracts emanates good vibes so the world around you notice it and send you good vibes right back.

I have to say, my mood over the last couple of days has been much improved. The night I got the email, I was actually grinning to myself as I was lying in bed, trying to get to sleep. I have to keep reminding myself that....
a) He could still always cancel at the last moment.
b) It doesn't really mean much, just that he's coming over for maybe an hour to show me some holiday photos.
c) He might use the opportunity of seeing me to bring up the subject of D.

But then there are times when I just can't stop smiling like a crazy person, and my heartbeat quickens, and I get that warm fuzzy feeling in my tummy...just thinking about seeing him. I've gotta remember to not appear too eager and/or flustered when he's here.

Anyway, I replied to his email, saying that Monday night would be fine, and asking what time he thought he'd be here. Also talked a bit about how I was bawling like a baby when my little brother had left to go live in the UK, and at the end of the email I made a totally random comment about an ebay auction I wanted to bid on that was finishing the following morning.

His reply started out saying that he hoped I'd won the auction, then he said that no one at the airport had cried when he'd left for Africa. He said he'd probably be around about 8:30, that he'd be coming straight from OzTag so would still be all sweaty and stinky, and that I shouldn't worry about having any food for him or anything, (but I'll probably still offer to make him a sandwich or something if he hasn't stopped to grab something to eat on the way over). It was all very friendly.

So....what does one wear for the first meeting with their spouse in almost an entire year? This is what I'm now getting slightly obsessive about. Obviously I don't want to look like a slob like I usually would when I'm lounging around the house, but I don't want to look like I got all dressed up for him either. I don't even know if I should put on a bra! I must confess to being a member of the itty bitty titty committee, so I don't actually need to wear one, and never do when I'm at home, and that's something he knows, so will it look like I'm putting in too much effort to do myself up if I'm wearing a bra when he knows I ordinarily hate wearing the things? But if I don't wear one, would that be too....what's the word I'm looking for....intimate? The top I'm probably gonna wear is snug, but not skintight.

Oh, the things that I obsess over!!