Twenty years ago, there was an Ann Landers column that read. Most women want to be held in bed and had sex with their H to be held, not for the sex.
My W clipped it out and gave it to me and said, “here is what I have been telling you. I am normal.”
Now imagine the uproar that would have ensued if an opposite poll had been conducted, with the conclusion that "most men want to be with their wives in order to screw them, not to hold them, and only held their wives in order to have sex." And imagine a HD husband pulling out a column like that and saying, "Look, I'm normal."
We'd call the guy who only acted romantic in order to have sex...well we know the sorts of things most of us would call him. It's too bad there isn't enough social pressure in the opposite direction, because it makes a man feel just as bad to think his wife looks at sex only as something to "put up with" in order to get hugs or "romance" or the other things she wants.
It doesn't work that way. One leads to the other...whichever one we're talking about coming first and whichever side makes the first offer. And if you expect one without the other, no matter which side of this equation you're on, you're gonna wind up with neither. And that is something "LD" people need to learn.
because it makes a man feel just as bad to think his wife looks at sex only as something to "put up with" in order to get hugs or "romance" or the other things she wants.
I used to feel somewhat bad, somewhat ashamed; I had a higher SD, but no more. It is about the difference in SD between BB and me.
if an opposite poll had been conducted, with the conclusion that "most men want to be with their wives in order to screw them, not to hold them, and only held their wives in order to have sex." But that is what some of the women my age and younger think. That is till the H has ED or dies, then the H was an angle sometimes.
I do wish more HDW's stories would be voiced. I think it would change some LDW's opinions or at least get the LDWs to think about what they might be missing or what might be wrong with the R.
Some women and men don’t see why couples do oral sex and think it is totally gross. Some guys insist the W swallow if she gives her H a BJ. Others say gross.
Some people just don’t understand or accept anything other than their preference or what fits in their belief system.
Lil Making a comparison between once a week and three times a week is hairsplitting.
How about once a YEAR? Once every FIVE YEARS? Once every DECADE?
Can we all agree that THAT is not normal? That that is NOT a marriage That is not any way near a normal M, Lil.
It's not just a question of "getting needs met"-- if MONTHS go by with no sex, no kissing, no groping, no cuddling... can that really be a marriage? Only if both people are happy with that arrangement, other wise if it is a M, it is a poor M in my opinion. People have done it probably ever since humans have been around.
Some of us do the kissing, some or a lot of cuddling, or like me, give foot and back rubs, but the affection, physical freeness stops when genitals are involved or the kissing goes past some ones comfort level. Is that a M?
Look at Choc's M. I think he could do some or most of the kissing and touching, but not the genital contact part.
Some say it is. I say it is a M where crumbs are the norm. I want bread and cake. Oops, wrong diet! Make that meat and the two vegetables menu is more to my liking.
Lil, to me once a month is like driving a car on a compact spare tire. Doable in emergency situations but not good for long term effectiveness unless both people are fine with the arrangement.
I am down to the compact spare stage on the M and am thinking about parking the car and walking or riding my bike.
While I don't believe there is a "norm" due to different personalities and other factors here is what I would like if I could have it...
At least 2x per week Minimum of once per month (if I had to I could live with that) I also believe both partners should initiate. Perhaps the LD won't initiate as often, but I would say a minimum of 1/4 of the time would be nice. I am still the primary iniator in our marriage...my H still cannot seem to break down the wall that keeps him from initiating sex.
However having said that...we are now to a minimum of 1x per month, which is a great improvement over what it was...and as I said above, something I can live with if I must.
I thought of an analogy that some may find helpful and others may just find annoying:
Take eating as an example. What's the "normal" number of meals to eat every day? Yeah, depends on a lot of things. Some may want to eat three times a day. Others may want to eat two meals and a snack. Maybe some want to "graze" all day. Maybe some can do with a big meal at breakfast or lunch and then grab a snack if they're hungry. To me this discussion of meals is analogous to the discussion of a sitch where one partner wants sex three times a day and the other "only" wants it three times a week. Or twice a week. Or once a week.
Then, to continue the food analogy, what if a person-- for some reason-- only has the opportunity to eat once a week? Is that "normal." What if they can only eat once a month? How long do people live who go on hunger strikes? About a month? If someone decided they simply did not want to eat ever again, they would be hospitalized and fed with an i.v., subjected to psychiatric exams, and watched closely.
Yes, I know people will starve without food but they will not starve without sex. But we're talking about "normal" behavior here. It's not normal not to eat or to take in some kind of nourishment for the body.
And yeah, there are single people who choose to be celibate for a variety of reasons. The key word here is "choose." The people on the BB "asexuality.com" are outside the norm.
The question was not "what do people choose," or "what can they tolerate," or "what can they sacrifice," or "what can they live with," but "what is the range of behaviors that we call 'normal,' when it comes to frequency of sex within a MARRIAGE."
But when a person enters into a marriage and then stops feeding the marriage (and sex is one of the nourishing aspects of marriage) then maybe the people won't starve to death, but the MARRIAGE will starve to death.
1. What do you consider a normal, healthy level of sexual activity for married couples?
2. What do you consider to be minimal acceptable / unacceptable level?
3. What do you consider to be "sex-starved" or sexless marriage?
This would keep this late-30s woman happy; your mileage may vary.
1. Healthy/normal: Two to four times a week; shared initiation; enthusiastic participation; at least one "session" as opposed to all quickies
2. Bare minimum: Once a week
3. Sex-starved: Anything less than once a week; Sexless: Anything less than once a month.
Agree with everyone who says there is no correct "normal", and riding the stats will only carry you so far.
OTOH, if you're trying to negotiate with someone who maintains the position that "no women/men really want it that much, you want the impossible" .... insight of this nature can be helpful, for your own peace of mind if nothing else.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I have heard similar things from women. One, why would a woman admit that she does not like sex? To me that would be something to be ASHAMED of, and certainly not PROUD of. Why is it that so many women clearly know nothing about the male/female relationship? Why would a woman actually think that their are men out their that would WANT to hear this crap about sex or would actually want them?
Cemar - believe it or not, there are men out there that don't like sex either - is that something they should be ashamed of too?
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
One, why would a woman admit that she does not like sex? Because she doesn't like sex.
to me that would be something to be ASHAMED of, and certainly not PROUD of The woman that said she thought sex should end at retirement age wasn't proud. She was somewhat frustrated as in, " look I had to do this when I would rather not have." Its time to end the frustration/ displeasure she is feeling.
Why is it that so many women clearly know nothing about the male/female relationship? Cemar, they know M/F relationship dynamics. They don't get the pleasure the guy does and some experience discomfort. That is the physical part. Add in all of the negative emotional components and even if a W wants a good F, she might not want one from her H.
Why would a woman actually think that their are men out their that would WANT to hear this crap about sex or would actually want them? For some women it is "what about me (her)and my (her)feelings." If she has been doing it only for him, you know that can get old and even frustrating.
They don't get much from sex and want the rest of the R, so they have sex but complain about it.
From a male or female POV, it isn't much fun having sex with a W/H that would rather not be there with the H/W. It can derail for either gender.
I think a few red convertibles (MLC sign) have been bought do to the mis-match sex drives.
Cemar, there are many reasons some women lose their SD, just as there are reasons men lose theirs.
