Moving into SSM, Hopefully not for long

[xuesheng]

Another thought.

Now this may trivial to most. Maybe BJ will remember why it's not. But there has been what I consider to be another big move in the positive direction. She started preparing the coffee the night before for me.

When she was a little girl it was her responsibility to make the coffee for her father. When she didn't he was very angry in the morning and she was rudely awakened.

For her coffee somehow symbolized the whole subservient to men thing. (Which I think should read "supportive of men"). It became a big deal in the early part of our R problems. The evil C even convinced her that coffee was bad. When she gave it up she had an incredible physical reaction. All of her muscles seized up and she was in incredible pain in a fetal position for a day or two. So she attributed this to the evils of coffee. She used this as an argument against coffee. A few weeks back I mentioned to her that maybe that reaction was not entirely the fault of caffeine withdrawals. Possibly that sunk in.

She also started prepping dinner. I do the cooking but her getting the prep work done is a big help. I like to cook but I've been really frustrated by being totally responsible for it. Just can't get my work done.

This subordination of women idea is something she has been struggling with for a long time. The phrase "to serve and obey" was removed from our vows at her request. Forget the fact that it says to serve and obey each other.

Last night something I thought very interesting. We were watching a movie and the subject of the Miss America pageant came up. W says

W- "You know I've probably watched the Miss America pageant more than any other person on the planet"

M- HUH!!! Really? Why?

W- I don't know, I just love it. Don't know why.

I was a bit flabbergasted. The subject of the Miss America pageant came up a week ago too.

I found that terribly interesting.

Xue

[blackfoot]

For her coffee somehow symbolized the whole subservient to men thing. (Which I think should read "supportive of men"). It became a big deal in the early part of our R problems. The evil C even convinced her that coffee was bad. When she gave it up she had an incredible physical reaction. All of her muscles seized up and she was in incredible pain in a fetal position for a day or two.

Her reaction and whatever caused it, is not trivial.

A few weeks back I mentioned to her that maybe that reaction was not entirely the fault of caffeine withdrawals. Possibly that sunk in.

Maybe, maybe not, but nicely done. When you feel bad, do you ever blame something other then what it really is? You still know though.

Taking things slow is good. Dont be uneasy or demanding when you initiate affection.
for ex.
xue: [laying in bed, hands behind head.] W, why dont you come over her and snuggle with me. Im hot, your cold feet and hands will feel good.
after she is snuggled, you can talk about the goofy things you did when you first got together, and the things you want to do.

[bj]

Hey Xue
I absolutely do remember the whole coffee thing and if she is getting it ready then you are way further along than I first thought when I read your posts of late
I think her making you coffee is akin to her getting off the lounge in the bedroom - that is an awesome move for her - to be able to do something that is so linked to past negative emotions
wish I could hug her for that step it was gianormous (having a problem with the spelling of that so it was bl00dy huge)

and what about you and mr nutter in the car - what a superb deflection of someone else's anger - and you both got to walk away happy (and he got to walk to away )

just had to check back in on you after the weekend

bj

[fearless]

I haven't read any of your other threads so I don't know the whole story other than what is on this thread. I'm not sure if I've missed some things or if you just haven't updated on them.

You and your wife had separated, right? And now she is back to living with you full time? You said that she had originally agreed to just stay until your finances were back in order. Are they now back in order and has she made any comment about leaving? Is she still sleeping on the couch? Have you hit the 3 year mark of not ML?

And I reread this thread and saw the comment about Opus One. Great wine! What vintage?

Great progress!

[bj]

Hey Xue

a little male insight required

as you know I went dark a long time ago - I went so dark that even I couldn't find myself
so what is the story
he's calling and texting again
what is that all about

am sooooo over this - definately gonna be saying go away (maybe not so nicely)

6 months I havn't heard a word

so how do you get rid of someone who two years ago decided to go
and then every few months rings/texts
and now is full on contacting

dark is dark - now the damn DBing is working and I don't want it to

whats the story
I guess i'm just looking for someone to tell me that I am right and doing fine on my own and should change my cell number

how are you doing I keep coming back to look and you havn't updated

come on Xue you and three others on here are the only reasons I come back and look



bj

[xuesheng]

Hi Bj,

I'm doing very well. W has started really doing wifely things lately. She watched a cooking show and cooked me one hell of a gourmet meal the other night. She's cooked a few nights since then. This is MAJOR for two reasons. 1) She was intimidated by my cooking skills (which makes no difference to me I'd eat anything she cooked for me and enjoy it. 2) The whole revolt against wifely things.

Things have been really nice and we are working together better than ever before.

No sex yet but things are good.

So to answer your question.

he's calling and texting again
what is that all about

Well who knows. Could be a booty call. In that case yeah tell him to go away and not too nicely.

Or maybe he has gone through the process. Maybe he's dealt with whatever he needed to deal with and realized he really screwed up.

You're pretty upset over what to do. Why?
If you really wanted him to go away you wouldn't be.

I guess i'm just looking for someone to tell me that I am right and doing fine on my own and should change my cell number

You are doing alright. You're kick ass BJ and you're right you're a hell of a lot like my wife. I see it now.

So just because you are perfectly capable of taking care of yourself, of being happy with yourself. You're strong and can do things. What the heck does that have to do with whether you are with someone or not.

When we are strong and don't need someone that's when it's really cool and enjoyable to be with someone.

So is that the case? Are you really strong and independent. So much so that BJ would not be lost in a relationship. Bj would still be Bj in a R. That's the test.

Bj I really don't know anything about your ex. He was gone when we first met. So I really don't have an opinion on him. But in my case I know that when one person deals with their stuff so does the other. It's like magic. My W and I were around each other as we did this and I really don't know if that made a difference or not.

But statistics show that most people who end marriages wish they hadn't a few years down the road.

I really don't know what's right for BJ but damn I hope you find out. You've helped me and others so much I really care about you. Makes me really sad to see you in such a quandery.

I hope the best for you Bj. Please keep us informed.

Xue

[xuesheng]

Well still waiting for Bj to come back here. I'll go check her thread.

But in the meantime. Took a nasty spill yesterday. Ran up a ladder without noticing it was on a slippery surface. Almost escaped without injury but my big toe caught on something when I landed and ripped the toenail right off. OUCH!

Anyway in the midst of the pain I was amazed to see W spring into action. She wouldn't let me get up off the ground until she checked me out. I said no to letting her take me to emergency. But medic'd me right up even though I could tell she was really grossed out by it.

Although I was very happy she took care of me so well yesterday I'm glad to see her go today so I can get up and do something.

Yesterday before the accident she was doing her usual seasonal nesting habits. Complete rearrange of the furniture (and nobody gets to help). It was nice to see the wedding pictures put back up.

Bj hope all is well.

Xue

[blackfoot]

It was nice to see the wedding pictures put back up.


Cool Xue. Really nice.

Although I was very happy she took care of me so well yesterday I'm glad to see her go today so I can get up and do something.

Think about how this appears to her.
It contains two sexually unappealing facets to it.

Did you want to get up, yesterday?
I am not saying dont let her tend to you. Definitely not saying that.
Everybody likes to be needed, and I cant imagine what kind of person doesnt accept a little TLC from others when offered..., but think about it. We all get wounded and need tending too, but what does a warrior due as soon as he is bandaged?

This subordination of women idea is something she has been struggling with for a long time. The phrase "to serve and obey" was removed from our vows at her request.

Have you ever had a conversation about this. I do mean a conversation. You know that thing that occurs between two people who are fearless about what they think.
There will be places you agree, and things you disagree on. When you make emphatic statements about what you believe, its a lot more...reassuring, believable, then when you are trying to defensively convince the OP you agree with them.

"Im not a woman hater. Really I respect you so much. I would never want to subjugate you. You believe me, right Honey?'

I think I just bomited a little.

I say this from my POV. IRL I rarely...hmm...practically never... talk about what I really believe. (it bores me, allready know all that.) I bring up topics and ask questions to find out where the female is coming from and what they believe and how they think. It serves several purposes, but primarily, When I see passion, or any other type of strong statement coming from the OP, I can know what they believe, and make decisions accordingly.

Women like knowing where they stand, with their man. Even when (not if, when) they think you're a complete ass because of it. Hey a new animal for the zoo. Im an ass. not a stallion. LOL. hee haw. lol.

One word of caution. Before the caution, Im going to pull something from starvinmarvin thread by Sandi

So, I told him the "thing" he always did that I had told him over and over again and again for thrity years that I did not like. Well, he finally got the picture, but he hasn't made love to me since. Now, I don't think that surely had anything to do with it, but just goes to show you how sensitive people can be about their technique in love making or foreplay! So, after that, I am careful not to mention the rest that I don't like...lol. But, seriously, he always felt like I was rejecting him and it wasn't so much him as it was the "moves" or the technique or "thing" he was doing that I didn't like. But, you try to tell some people and then they don't make love for a couple of decades. What sense does that make?

Ok. So the word of caution is, talk about what you like. Talking about what you Dont like serves no purpose. People do not want to hear what they are doing wrong. Men typically really do not want to hear how they suck at sex. Personnally I like it, cause then I can give her a little of what she likes (climbing the slide ladder) and then a little of what she doesnt (climbing down the slide ladder.) up and down, up and down, untill she says fck this, Im climbing the freaking ladder and going down the slide. lol. hmm I just got a cool idea..

Since women are always running everything you say thru a filter of why did he say that, what does he really mean, instead of listening and believing, talking about what you dont want is going to feel like pressure, or that you dont like them or who knows what. something negative.

If she tells you what she doesnt like,
1. dont personalize. shes trying to help you in her own special nagging, unaccepting, way.
2. Ask her what she DOES like. better yet tell her, 'you know, you might have better succes telling me what you like. we could be here all day listening to what you dont like. my ears are tired just thinking about it. so lets speed things up. '
3. Tell her if she keeps being a negative ninny your going to take her upstairs and spank her like a naughty school girl. (if you like that kind of thing.)

[xuesheng]

Hey Blackfoot,

Thanks

but what does a warrior due as soon as he is bandaged?

Yep I know. And no way did I just wuss out and submit to her caretaking. Got it all bandaged up shoved my toenail back on and tried to get on with things. Rejected her trying to bring me to the hospital. She had to be quite forceful to get me to lie down. But when I did I realized that I did need to.

Have you ever had a conversation about this. I do mean a conversation. You know that thing that occurs between two people who are fearless about what they think.

I do believe there will be one in our future.

There will be places you agree, and things you disagree on. When you make emphatic statements about what you believe, its a lot more...reassuring, believable, then when you are trying to defensively convince the OP you agree with them.

Excellent!!! Very true. Before all this I now realize that I would try to manipulate the other persons POV rather than discuss. This was extremely unhealthy. Now I see it in others that do it and it is sickening.
Discussions are truly the sign of a healthy mind.

I think I just bomited a little.

Me too!

Women like knowing where they stand, with their man. Even when (not if, when) they think you're a complete ass because of it. \:\) Hey a new animal for the zoo. Im an ass. not a stallion. LOL. hee haw. lo

Something that took me a long time to understand. So true.

3. Tell her if she keeps being a negative ninny your going to take her upstairs and spank her like a naughty school girl. (if you like that kind of thing.)

Excellent. Considering todays conversation with her I think I could do that now.

So today we go to the river and sit and talk. She tells me she's had some big revelations over the weekend. She was sitting watching her sister swim in the Bay near Alcatraz. Her sister is a competitive swimmer and going to do the shark to shore this weekend. So she's sitting there and somebody asks my w why doesn't she jump in and go for a swim. She answers with her typical "Oh no (insert negative comment here)"

But then she thinks about it and realizes "Well actually why not" But this goes deeper. Why not do a lot of things she doesn't do. That she uses her negativity to avoid and deters others discussing it with her by being so negative. She just throws up her negative energy shield.

She then tells me that she also realized that she's been a "functioning depressed person" but inreality its barely functioning. She acted terribly busy and always behind. Always late. Always something more important to do. And by doing so she actually gets very little done and (here's the kicker) lays everything on me. She says she has for years avoided doing anything (like keeping up on her martial arts, learning new things, etc) and layed the entire responsibility on me. When she saw me bite the dust the other day she realized that it's not fair. That I could have easily been hurt really badly and the responsibility would still be on my because she doesn't know how to do anything. Because she has avoided learning.

This is also what eats me up. I run in circles because I seem to be the only one that can do anything(teach the class, fix the computer, build the addition, etc) and when it comes to her doing the things she ca do (cleaning up after construction) she doesn't because they are womanly. I get upset and carry that anger.

She apologized.

This is very different. Way back when she was determined to learn things to be independent from me. It was very negative. It was avoidance. Now she wants to take responsibility to be part of a team. To do her share.

It was quite a revelation for her. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right but it's big. We sat and talked for 3-4 hours.

She wants badly to be somebody different after her big realization. I just hope she can realize it's going to take tiny steps to get there and not be so hard on herself that she doesn't.

So anyway?

Xue

[Corri]

Xue:

She then tells me that she also realized that she's been a "functioning depressed person" but inreality its barely functioning. She acted terribly busy and always behind. Always late. Always something more important to do. And by doing so she actually gets very little done and (here's the kicker) lays everything on me. She says she has for years avoided doing anything (like keeping up on her martial arts, learning new things, etc) and layed the entire responsibility on me. When she saw me bite the dust the other day she realized that it's not fair. That I could have easily been hurt really badly and the responsibility would still be on my because she doesn't know how to do anything. Because she has avoided learning.

I was trying to explain this EXACT THING to Loon, over on her thread. I've also been discussing this concept with a friend of mine: women who stop growing, who get BORED... are LETHAL, to themselves and others.

This ALONE is probably the best news I've ever heard for anyone... and you, Xue, helped give her space to see it and find it. Good for you. Excellent!!!!

This is very different. Way back when she was determined to learn things to be independent from me. It was very negative. It was avoidance. Now she wants to take responsibility to be part of a team. To do her share.

FCKING A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This... is IT.

She wants badly to be somebody different after her big realization. I just hope she can realize it's going to take tiny steps to get there and not be so hard on herself that she doesn't.

Ah. Well. When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

Corri