Hmm Lou and Cobra's exchanges have just got me thinking about H's avoidance tactics.
On Easter weekend we went away and stayed on a farm. It was a beautiful place and we had fabulous weather. The whole time we were there H was in a very distant, pissed off kind of mood and there was no communication between us even though I asked him a couple of times if he was OK and if there was anything he wanted to talk about. When we came back he took another day off work to look after the kids as they were still at school (I had taken 3 days off work the previous week). I phoned part way through the day and said I was planning to go out with my colleagues in the evening (normally tuesday is my night to go to the gym - so not a major change of plan). He sounded very grumpy told me he was feeling "monumentally pissed off, stressed and very sad". I said "oh dear - poor you. See you later, I won't be late"
Came in later and he appeared cheerful enough but then said "did we have a conversation at about 4 this afternoon?" I said yes. He said he found it unbelievable that I could just carry on about my business after he had said how he was feeling. I said it seemed to me that he had been in that mood for the previous four days, that I had given him some opportunities to open up about it but he'd chosen not to and that I just saw him saying he was "monumentally pissed off etc" as being a manipulative way to control me and get me to not go out and as he has often expressed a need not to be controlled then that applies to me too. Anyway he then told me off for trying to be his counsellor, which I didn't reply to - it was just a way of filling up air time while he let what I said sink in. So I left a pause and then asked what it was that was stressing him out and making him feel so pissed off. He started on about having a crap car which I had chosen and living in a crap house which I had chosen blah blah. In both cases he was with me every step of the way, I did all the leg work (as usual) when extra-curricular projects such as getting a new car or arranging a mortgage etc come up but at I certainly do not make unilateral decisions and I seek his opinions and in no way would I want insist on doing things my way on decisions as big as those. But the difference is he is SO unsure of his own ability to make such big decisions that he not only asks my opinion but actually doesn't express his own for fear of being wrong and then of course he can play the blame game months or years down the line when he's decided he doesn't like what's happened.
So I called him out on it and he just started yelling at me "did you pick the car" over and over so I left.
Came back about half an hour later and he was still sitting where I left him. I said, if it makes you feel better I'll say "yes I went and got the car" but I have to say I feel sorry for you if having a car you don't like can make you this upset.
His answer was that I'd completely missed the point - he didn't go on to explain the point. Anyway I said if he didn't like the car why not change it. So he agreed he would. And then all was well again. WTF?
Well actually I do know wtf - what's up is that the car is due it's annual service and relicense and it's on his to do list and he hasn't had time to do it. So he has started to feel resentful about doing it, and he's not particularly fond of the car so he's transferred his stress about having something overdue not ticked off his to do list and his resentment at having to do that job for a car he doesn't even like much onto me for being the one to pick it. Nice neat package making his misery all my fault again.
I also think I've figured out why he chose to spend the whole long weekend while we were away being in a bottled up state of "monumental pissedness" - it's simple avoidance. Oh dear a whole four days with no work and no place to hide - I know throw a massive moody that'll keep the required distance.
Funny how he hasn't bothered to come and join us here isn't it?
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Funny how he hasn't bothered to come and join us here isn't it?
Not at all funny to me since he is an exact clone of my 2bx with a British accent. The exact same kind of interaction you described above happened so many times in my marriage. In fact when my 2bx came over to get some tax stuff that I had prepared this past weekend he started complaining about how I had filled the forms he needed out in pencil instead of pen and , oh my f*cking God can you believe it, now he only had a whole day to recopy them. The truly sickening thing was that I could tell that he had tried to make himself sexually attractive to me for our tax meeting. I kept thinking "Bad candy, bad candy. Make Mojo sick inside with razor bits." It wasn't even like I got the vibe that he wanted to have sex with me, it was like he was trying to attract me sexually in order to get something else from me. It gave me a little fit of self-loathing but I'm over it 'cause you can't see what you can't see until you see it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Yes Mojo he his your 2bx's clone, and no it's not at all funny or weird or what have you. Trouble is you've managed to kick your version to the kerb, without actually doing the kicking how cool is that? And I haven't and now I feel like I want to because I want to go to Iggy Pop concerts in age-inappropriate clothes and having some f*cking FUN for a change.
Good luck at the weekend ;-)
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
resentment at having to do that job for a car he doesn't even like much onto me for being the one to pick it. Sounds like what goes on here. Just change genders. I do all the car stuff.
it's simple avoidance. Oh dear a whole four days with no work and no place to hide - I know throw a massive moody that'll keep the required distance. That maybe true, but their maybe other reasons.
You asked him and he chose not to go into detail. Just because he won't tell you, that doesn't make your guess valid. Your guess might be correct or maybe it isn't.
What is the possibility he won't speak up because you will lay it all back on him????? BTDT too.
Geez, imagine for a minuet Mr. Hap and BB shopping for a car? What a sight when the car needs service. I know BB would just buy another one fast.
I did State Inspections similar to MOT's when I lived on the east coast in 1964.
Fran, until you find out why Mr. Hap was moody, guessing is all you have to work with.
I read about women being dedicated to their kids and neglecting the H. I see H dedicated to a job and neglect the W. Diffwerent things drive people to over do some things.
We are supposed to be adults and make the right/best choices, but guess what? We don't. Our parents didn't all of the time.
Anyone seen Mr Hap? No, sure didn't, but I did some of the things he is doing. Maybe for different reasons. Maybe for some of the same reasons.
Get him on the forum and I will listen to his story.
who is stopping you I am stopping me because H wouldn't go (he is not into music - especially not live) so I would go alone/with a girlfriend. If that happened I would go crazy because I would a) end up getting laid b) end up wanting to get laid so bad that my eyeballs would melt. Remember I am the HD one here. It is bad enough not getting any but hanging around places where you can dance/get drunk/get hit on and STILL not get laid is torture. So I won't do it.
Yes H does the car stuff (now) I used to for a few years after we'd had the kids because it seemed he thought the deal was: he brings in the income I do EVERYTHING (and I mean everything) else. Well that wasn't very even when I was SAHM and now I'm back at work we renegotiated and we agreed I do everything else except for: the car, his laundry, minor bits of DIY as they arise.
Believe me Lou, he doesn't stop a four day moody unless the problem has been rooted out. The problem was somewhere between the car and a need to keep his distance. Sometimes I wonder if he might be an avoidant personality. He certainly has some of the characteristics, although I don't believe he has a full-blown personality disorder.
This weekend he was about to head over to the office first thing on Saturday morning when I managed to talk him out of it. I reminded him not to get into the mindset that Saturday is a working day, and also that when he worked last Saturday he didn't get much done because he needed other people to be working too. So he agreed it probably wasn't going to be very effective. So far he has spent the weekend kind of bored and a bit resentful and heaving great sighs of "I suppose I should mow the lawn" or whatever.
Lou, what made you wake up and realise that life doesn't need to be work, work, work. That fun and relaxation can play a part. Lately I've been thinking about different people's attitudes to their to-do list. Everyone has one whether they keep it as an actual written list or whether they just keep a list in their minds. And it seems to me that every item on that list can fall into one of three categories: have to do it, should do it, want to do it. Now everyone (sensible) gets on with the have tos and then they have a choice they could either tackle the shoulds or they could skip the shoulds and do the want tos. Mr Hap is definitely someone who feels the need to get all the shoulds out of the way before moving to the want tos. Myself I prefer the want tos. The shoulds can wait to another day. Usually if you do that then the shoulds either turn themselves into have tos or disappear - LOL!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Lou, what made you wake up and realise that life doesn't need to be work, work, work. That fun and relaxation can play a part. Lately I've been thinking about different people's attitudes to their to-do list. Everyone has one whether they keep it as an actual written list or whether they just keep a list in their minds. And it seems to me that every item on that list can fall into one of three categories: have to do it, should do it, want to do it. Now everyone (sensible) gets on with the have tos and then they have a choice they could either tackle the shoulds or they could skip the shoulds and do the want tos. Mr Hap is definitely someone who feels the need to get all the shoulds out of the way before moving to the want tos. Myself I prefer the want tos. The shoulds can wait to another day. Usually if you do that then the shoulds either turn themselves into have tos or disappear - LOL!
Fran
I had long had the notion that, if I was having fun while putting off or forgetting something on the to-do list, that all Hell would break loose. It was like, if I had fun, and then something I should have done instead came to light, it would be ten times worse than forgetting something but not having fun in the meantime. And since I didn't know whether I had forgotten something, I was always afraid to have fun.
I kept up family time to some degree, but approached it as another "to-do"... I didn't allow myself to have fun, and threw a wet blanket over everyone else in the process. And as you can imagine, this mindset didn't exactly do wonders for our sex life.
I see a lot of that in your description of Mr. Hap. Can't keep up with everything, thinks that having fun and being happy will make his failures that much more glaring, and thus makes himself and everyone around him miserable.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Fran It is bad enough not getting any but hanging around places where you can dance/get drunk/get hit on and STILL not get laid is torture. So I won't do it. OK. I get the idea. I suppose if I was in a HD woman it would be too easy to step over the line, especially with alcohol around. Although I would go but wouldn't drink. You are the authority of your life.
]b] he brings in the income I do EVERYTHING (and I mean everything) else. [/b] WOW, I never was in a R like that. I did all of the earning and all of the guy things.
he doesn't stop a four day moody unless the problem has been rooted out. The problem was somewhere between the car and a need to keep his distance. Sometimes I wonder if he might be an avoidant personality....I don't believe he has a full-blown personality disorder Sounds like you/he could use some low level professional help. I think if he had a serious personality disorder you would know it, and a lot sooner.
Lou, what made you wake up and realize that life doesn't need to be work, work, work. When I figured out the more I worked, the more we spent.
Another thing that caused some shift in my thinking was seeing that buying things at an increasing rate was like being on a tread mill. At first something new every 3 months seemed to make everyone happy then it was down to buying things a couple times a week. The tread mill effect was very noticeable.
The next thing that caused me to over work, equally important was a belief that if I didn't do the work I would lose customers or lose my status at work. At work, we all worked on commission and anyone working in that environment knows it is competitive.
If you turn down work sometimes the person that routed the work gave the good jobs to the other guys.
Working was al so a sense of security. Money coming in to save or to put in a retirement plan.
Mr. Hap is definitely someone who feels the need to get all the shoulds out of the way before moving to the want to’s. Myself I prefer the want to’s. The shoulds can wait to another day. Usually if you do that then the shoulds either turn themselves into have to’s or disappear Call me Mr. Hap Fran.
The should do's if not done in a timely manner, go to someone else when you are a business owner.
Since I cut back on my work, I lost about 50% of my customers. They usually want things fast. What they are in need of is very important to them. It doesn't matter if another person or company needs something more important than they do. If I don't do both customer's work ASAP, they don't come back.
It is my observation, non-business owners don't see the business world as owners do.
As a self-employed person. if I don't provide what my customer wants and in their time frame, s/he doesn't stay with me. Other people advertise more than I do and they tend to attract my customers I can‘t satisfy fast enough.
The good part is I have enough $$ to live on so losing some customers that want their needs met in a short time, doesn't cause me as much stress anymore. I can fall back on my reserves because I spend a lot less than I did 10/30 years ago and the house and retirement fund are paid off/up.
I also notice hourly or salaried employees talk a lot more about what they are going to do and how they are going to spend money. (what is in it for them/rewards)
I hear business owners talking about attracting customers, bidding jobs, doing the work, and paying the bills. (what do I have to do to earn/effort)
Can't keep up with everything, thinks that having fun and being happy will make his failures that much more glaring, and thus makes himself and everyone around him miserable.
I can relate CE.
For me it was doing all the work before I could have any fun. Some work left undone took away from the fun/pleasure.
I will say I put myself last, BB next to last, and too many other people's things at the head of the line.
If I didn't they went somewhere else.
I just visited with a business planner. He said I was providing services and products to my customers at too low of a price and that was one of the main reason I needed to work the extra hours.
Now to raise prices w/o feeling like I am over charging. A life long problem.
