Hi all, I have been pretty much lurking for some time (since Fall 05) but I need some advice. H and I have been separated since Summer 04. We drifted far apart but he always came to see the kids. We did a lot of things together with the children but nothing with just us two. Think that he was cake eating and I was allowing. We would ML from time to time. He basically cut me off outside of sex although I was too blind to see, I was hoping so much. I pursued and he ran until I got a handle (not a good one but okay I guess) on DBing. Asked him to go to counseling, workshops, retrovaille -- all refused even the appt that I made last Thanksgiving Friday 05 that he left me waiting for him alone at. HUMILIATING.
Noticed that he got very involved with a hobby. He confessed that there had been 2 people interested in him since our separation which would account for some of his missing blocks of time and unwillingness to spend time with me. Activities together with kids halts significantly and when we are together, we are on a time schedule always like he has someplace else to go. He becomes someone that I do not know ... This goes on for about a year, it began in August 2005 and got progressively worse as outlined above. I ask him if he would come home many times, all to have him practically SCREAM NO and NEVER. In fact he said that a few times.
Fast forward to August 2006, H starts to spend more time around (there was a major event that gave him some time to think) and we start to do things more often and regularly as a family. Once he asked if I wanted to go for a drive with him alone. I did. He fell asleep while I drove but, it was all good given the situation Still some secrecy and asserting of privacy but he does give an account of his day and time spent, his plans etc for the most part. We (kids too) are not in SBT which he agreed to go to as the kids have been acting out some.
I was a WAW and that seems to have sent H on a path to find whatever it was that was "missing". He will touch me lovingly and hug me from time to time when no one is watching, we have snuggled and ml a few times. Recently asked is he missed me and admitted yes. Asked if would come back to our relationship and said no, not at this time. This is an improvement over this time last year.
I need some advice.I am working on GAL (I have a little), lost some weight and changed my hair and clothes. I try to seem upbeat and look for topics that we can talk about. Still don't sleep much (neither does H). He seems to be in MLC but progressing through the tunnel. Not sure the stage,sometimes seems like replay and other times exhibits depression/acceptance. Still pretty focused on himself although he peeks out from time to time. My pastor feels that he has a self esteem/self worth issue and is having trouble crossing over into adulthood as he is 40. Still no commitment to return, although I remain optimistic. I know that I cannot do anything but is there any hope in this sitch? How do I really just get past it?
Quote: We did a lot of things together with the children but nothing with just us two. Think that he was cake eating and I was allowing. We would ML from time to time. He basically cut me off outside of sex although I was too blind to see, I was hoping so much.
Are you talking about before or after your Summer 2004 separation?
Quote: He becomes someone that I do not know ... This goes on for about a year, it began in August 2005 and got progressively worse as outlined above.
Sorry...wasn't outlined above in a lot of detail...can you elaborate?
It sounds like you suspect an OW, but are uncertain...is this the case. Sorry...I will try and review your old posts on lunch.
Quote: We (kids too) are not in SBT which he agreed to go to as the kids have been acting out some.
I'm acronym challenged...what is SBT?
Quote: I was a WAW and that seems to have sent H on a path to find whatever it was that was "missing".
What do you mean you were a WAW...are you referring to a former marriage, was it you that initiated the Summer 2004 separation, or you left him once and returned...before Summer 2004. If the latter, can you tell us a little more?
I'll review at lunch and check to see if you've responded... In the mmeanntime...no asking him if he misses you or would like to come back...even if it is someday.
I know that you can only check the computer sporadically while unpacking. Hopefully some others will stop in here and check on you too. The board is a place that is frustrating for some. But I find that those may be ones who are disappointed when an answer is not immediate on their threads. And you will get more answers by posting to others too. Posters check on those who post to them. I'm not saying you aren't doing that...I read through and you've given back. But if you are frustrated, be patient and take time to build a community of friends here. Then post regular updates on your thread...even when you feel that nothing is going on...use it as a journal. And trust that people will read it. Sometimes I get responses on my thread and at other times I go for days with nothing. But later someone stops by and says something that makes it clear they've been keeping up with me...and this just warms my heart.
Regarding MLC...I'm not going to say that is what's going on here. You didn't ask, but in case you wonder. He could be MLC...but given that you left him and tht you give little information on his specific behaviour...I'm not convinced of MLC.
Being left can send him into a crisis of sorts...closed heart, afraid to trust...others but you in particular. It sends a person into a Depression--reactive depression, not clinical. MLC is a developmental crisis--something different.
But if you see other MLC behaviours...let us know, it will help us to understand waht's going on a bit better.
You made a mistake as a WAW who realized that you do not want a divorce. But hold your head high. You have admitted to your faults and mistakes and are growing.
Has he said the too little too late line...or maybe simply too late. Sweetheart said it was too late when he originally left. My response was that there is no such thing as too late.
You know how to DB. No asking him about coming home...not even a would you someday. This will only make him angrier. And let's face it, he was the LBS. You've been DBing longer than you were walking away it seems. But he closed his heart.
You can't open it. You can't convince anyone to trust , that you have grown, of your love etc by TELLING. You must SHOW.
And you are doing this. But any questions about coming home or relationship talks usually are a fall back from showing and a reversion to telling. In situations such as this, I think that questions often are a part of one person trying to convince another.
I imagine they are or are at least seen and felt by the other as begging and pleading. This shows a lack of confidence in oneself and is unconvincing...in fact it is more evidentiary of exactly what the begger/pleader is trying NOT to convey.
I really want this job. versus I want this job.
The word really added no convincing argument. It is a sign of desperation and actually weaknes the statement.
So how does an LBS let the spouse know he is welcome home if not by asking him...which can be construed as begging and pleading.
Personal Choice: Always assure him that it is his personal choice.
Want versus Need: You want him, but do not NEED him...that is you are not NEEDY.
Personal Strength & Pride: "I made a mistake. I'm sorry I hurt you. I was wrong. I have admitted to my mistakes, and am working to correct them. I am learning, growing and becoming a better person. It is your choice. If you choose you may join me. We will never get BACK together, but can work together and go forward. I understand you may not choose to join me, but when you do, I am here.
Notice that when you do. That's a bit of Ericksonian language slipped in there. Be careful with it...be subtle and slip such a thing below radar...but it is speaking with a certainty--it's a hypnotic technique.
As for that go forward versus not go backwards...I stole that from a response I found reviewing your old threads--loved it and I will use it more now.
You said he's been doing more things with you all again right??? Or is this with just the kids these days?
Showing that you are trustworthy takes TIME...usually a longer amount of time than it took for the loss of trust. A three month affair can cost a couple 18 months i reconciliation time.
Stop requesting he go to counseling...he considers it pressure...at least this is what it sounds like because it sounds like you're requesting he go to marriage counseling. If you fel that he may be more open you can subtly mention personal counseling...but be wary. What I think you really need to do is show by example...go to counseling yourself and let him know. Let him know how it is helping you to grow, trust yourself...not that you thus learned you want him back...that is pressure.
Oh yeah...has he filed--is there a divorce in process? If so, what is the timeline right now?
He may very well miss you. He may also not be coscious of this...or he is coscious but witha closed heart he is unwilling to show the weakness and give in to it...he is determined and steeling himself to not comong back. And he may not want to...why go back to something for which he has no trust. Validate those fears and feelings if he expresses them to you...they are real and they have merit.
Validating is part of SHOWING. Give him time to see you changing and mainting changes. The amount of time that has passes since you changed your mind about divorce and began changing is not relevant--I know you've been trying for a long time now. But he wasn't seeing those changes in some ways for much of that time... So this last August he started doing more things with you as a famliy. Some of this may have been for the kids sake. Some may have been to test the waters--whether he admits it or is even conscious of it.
But even if it was only for the kids...this is where he will begin seeing the changes in greater detail. And beware...he may test those changes to see if you revert back.
The testing period can last a loooooong time. As you pass tests, they become more challenging. This will confuse you. Especially since you left once, some tests will be him spewing how he hates you and never wants back or how he is never coming home. Sometimes these are feelers...testing the waters to see if he really can--this was so with Sweetheart. They are challenges to you to see if you will accept his choices. Validate feelings...not behaviour, feelings.
"I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't blame you. I can't make you trdut me, I can only work on being trustworthy."
Did you waiver in your decision as a walk away...or once you decided you wanted your marriage did you stay firmly on that path? Because if you waivered...then he has even more reasons to be scared. And prepare that he could waiver too...perhaps he will cahnge his mind, but there will be uncertainty. This is where it gets especially tough. You will believe him and suddenly feel safe...the next week he doesn't want to come home, the next week after that he does. This will confuse you. It may or may not happen...but prepare for it to stave off confusion.
The stronger you are in accepting his decision while still keeping the door open for him...the more reassured he will be.
You can do this. Work on GAL, see a counselor, and validate & accept his choices. He can relax if he feels you accept...notn that he will never coe home, but rather that he can choose...and at this point he chooses not to...but you are still strong enough to keep the door open.
