MLC over??

[ACJ]

[ANewMe]

Wed,

I would appreciate any input I could get from you on my situation. I know that this is a busy time for all of us but I could use the help.

[wed2alien]

Positively listening,

I just read your post and will try to answer your questions and then get to your thread.

How is it that your H finally realized that it was an addiction to OW, and that he needed help and went to a C? Did that come to him totally on his own, or did you help in some way?

We had tried couples counseling at the very beginning of his replay at my insistence. (this was my mistaken naive belief that he would immediately end the affair and want to work on our marriage. I didn't realize I was dealing with not the same man I married!) After 2-3 sessions, it was obvious he was still seeing OW so I knew couples counseling was futile. Our C agreed and suggested individual counseling for both of us.

It wasn't until about 6 months later that he realized he was confused/depressed. He had many talks with his D sister who gave him realistic advice about "new" relationships, how they ALL are exciting but that fades in time. She suggested C and he went to a good one, thank goodness. This C confirmed all the euporia of an affair and he began to doubt his new R, to not make any rash decisions to end M. She told him affairs were addictions and needed to be treated as such to end one.

This C moved away but referred him to an even better one, one who specialized in addictions, and knew how to expect lying, denial, etc. He saw her for about 8 months. She gave him the tools to end the affair. He still didn't want to end it, he craved OW.

how would you characterize your R during the time you were S?

We physically separated 4 times I think. He always called daily if just to check the kids schedules. Most of the time I answered, sometimes I didn't just to aggravate him.

Our R during separation varied often. Sometimes we were cordial friends, sometimes dating lovers, sometimes I cut off contact if I found out he was lying and still seeing OW.(this really made him angry but I think it helped him see I didn't need him, I deserved to be treated with respect, and I had every right to cut him off since he knew what he was doing was wrong. It got to where the lying bothered me more than him seeing OW)

Sometimes we communicated only by voice messages, some nasty. We had many long phone discussions, mainly late at night about our R, shared our feelings, trying to figure it all out. At times I felt like his C, listening, validating, encouraging him to find his happiness within, etc. Many deep discussions that we never had. Other times divorce was threatened, I saw L 2-3 times to fill out the papers but never did.

Our last separation was the most volatile, he actually had D papers drawn up and was ready to have me served, but changed his mind when he actually read them and decided he wanted to save our marriage. How crazy is that?

I guess I was just never comfortable with our R in any of these modes (friends, lovers, cordial, angry). If one stage lasted too long, like when I was nice, friendly and ignored the fact that he was seeing OW, eventually I would get mad, feel like a doormat, stand up for myself and my rights and cut off contact. I never let him get comfortable with OW for too long without stirring things up.

And how did you successfully confront the OW #2 and with H Ok with that? Was it that your R had developed to such a point that the trust was there for you to be more assertive, or was it that your H couldn't risk losing you as it was an ultimatum?

Well, lets just say that I was a bad DB because I always snooped. I am the type that had to know but it caused me a lot of pain and distress. First my gut would tell me that he was lying, or seeing OW, by his behavior (distancing, less eye contact, strange unavailability when called, nasty angry alien spews at me).

I just wanted to know the truth, I couldn't understand his lying (duh, all MLCers lie, I know that but I just couldn't accept it from my H). So I would track phone numbers, etc. and luck was always on my side as I caught him many times lying. With OW#1, catching him in lies almost became a game, he would try to end affair, would last 2-7 days, then cycle again.

After 2 yrs of this, I was really at the end of my rope and ready to D, especially when he started OW #2 which only lasted a month. No way was I up for another 2 yr battle because he was acting just like he did at the beginning or replay 2 yrs earlier. (cocky, arrogant, distant, secretive) I thought he went ALL the way back in the tunnel.

I became angry, told him he could have her, file the papers, told his family, all the wrong things I am sure. I didn't give him an ultimatum but really put my foot down, set boundaries (no contact, no coming to house, he had to keep kids at his apt on his days). I was confident that I would be OK and didn't fear divorce. My reaction to OW #2 would not have worked on #1, so I guess the timing was right. He didn't have those same feelings for #2, just an "empty R" he said later.


But my interfering with his private life angered him more than ever, and it became a battle of our wills but it worked for him, opened his eyes from his fog. It was like my angry true words would smack some sense into him.

And it was shortly after this confrontation that he recommitted, we began "dating" and he slowly showed more and more signs of his old self.

wed2

[PositivelyListening]

Wow, Wed, your answers to my questions were really helpful to me. One thing I get, is how important it is to "mix it up". DB Coach Chuck said this to me too. I have worked so hard all this time at being consistent and stable. You said:

I guess I was just never comfortable with our R in any of these modes (friends, lovers, cordial, angry). If one stage lasted too long, like when I was nice, friendly and ignored the fact that he was seeing OW, eventually I would get mad, feel like a doormat, stand up for myself and my rights and cut off contact. I never let him get comfortable with OW for too long without stirring things up.

DB Coach Chuck said (and you remind me of it too) that H is expecting, even waiting to see my anger at some point. H will need to see my anger, and see that I can be angry and still be respectful. But disagree nonetheless. I don't know when that will come up, but there is no doubt in my mind that sometime after the holidays and this upcoming trip, I will be allowing the next level of my authenticity to emerge with H. I have only been angry with him once in this past year, and actually a lot of good came from that even though it was really scary for me afterwards. I am less scared of being angry with H now, but it just hasn't come up in front of H in a while, it's come up later, more like frustration.

It also impressed me from reading your post, that if your timing is intuitive, you can help them "wake up". I realize though, if you try to force things too soon, it won't work out. I can tell that my H needs more time. I am certain about that. I can really relate to that arrogant, cocky, distant manner you saw in your H - I have seen that with my H too, but it comes and goes. Tuesday he was like that. Saturday, he was sweet, helpful, caring.

Thanks so much for all of this detail Wed. It is extremely helpful to me. I will print it out to support me later. Blessings to you as you carry on!

[almosthopeless]

Hi wed,

Your post is lovely, and it seems so very hopeful. I just wanted to say that I am pleased for you--it sounds like you are moving through a very, very mature and genuine reconciliation. I envy you, of course, but mostly am just pleased that it really can happen for someone.

Hugs.
AH

[wed2alien]

Hello to all,

I thought I would start the new year by updating my thread. Maybe I should be in piecing but MLC forum just feels like home. And I want to give hope to those who need to see that things can work out sometimes. I remember I always looked for threads that described what exiting the tunnel was like and what life was like on the other side, reconciled.

H is continuing to progress since he has been home (4 months now), all OW contact over for 6 months, and when they say you will know when OW is gone, it is so true.

I feel like I should change my username because he is not an alien anymore. He is again gentle, kind, more sensitive, so much like the man I married. It is really so different this time, his head is so clear, rational and focused. I rarely feel it could change back again,(though I have learned to never say never!), those fears slowly are going away by his steady behavior.

There have not been a lot of words said, I don't feel the need to bring up R talk, as his actions are speaking louder than words. He continues to surprise me with signs of his recommittment.

Last week we were out to dinner and he said he thought we should have a "ring" ceremony. He had found his wedding band that I had in my jewelry dish, (I didn't even know he knew I had it. I had taken it from his car ashtray 2 yrs ago when he stopped wearing it.) He said he couldn't find my band but thought we should start wearing our wedding bands again!! I was shocked, I hadn't thought he was ready for that, we both had tears in our eyes. So actions are better than words I guess. I guess he is getting "feelings" back again!!

And we spent New Years Eve together with a nice dinner out. He joked about how many people never thought we would be together for a new year. And 1 yr ago, I was one of them. (he spent last NYE with me but was distant, cold, no touch, went to bed at 9pm, was grieving he was not with OW like he was the year before-2 yrs ago NYE)

So, keep the faith in 2007, no matter how dismal your M seems in January. My situation changed a lot in 1 year. It's not over til its over. Hang on but move forward too, how confusing is that!!

wed2

[OK now]

Wed2. Glad to hear things are turning out for you. I have been following your post for wuite a long time. I never posted to you. Didn't know what to say, But I do get inspired when I do hear something positive can happen even when things are so far gone.

1 question. My wife got married to OM. She hid it for quite a while from children. Finally after D11 pryed it out of her from asking over and over. she finally said yes and then told D11 that she's probably going to tell me now.
If she's so happy and feels good about her actions, Then why should she care what I know.

Just looking for some answers. Do these MLCs come out even after they get married? I know there whole R was built on lies. He's very controling from what I hear. Has her isolated and they work together.
Sorry for the ramble

[aid]

Wed,
It really is a Happy New Year for you! I am so happy for you! You were in our place once before, so you know how we LOVE to hear the successes. Reading your post helps me be more patient and look at the big picture, not the day to day picture.

I hope to see you in hte MLC Successes thread one day. And YR will not be far behind. I know she'll be there one day as well!

[mopsey821]

Wed,
How did you know that the ow was truly gone? I fear that my h mow is never going to give him up. She is just as twisted and sick as my H is. Manipulative and codependent.

Thanks,
Mopsey

[Cinderellaman]

It's just what I needed in the new year, a story with such a lovely result ! I am so glad you found each other again ! I wish you both well !! And I was astonished to hear where your husband had left his wedding band ! Same place mine left his, when he took it off, I have also kept it in a special place since then... Do pray for us, that are still in replay and struggling with OW issue... I KNOW the OW isn't the problem, but they hurt us so much with that .... Bye and THANKS happy New Year, Cinderellaman xx

PS my thread is Weird Midlife, in case you're interested !