Quote: What are men supposed to take note of? Can you be more specific?
He's noticing what she likes without her having to tell him. He goes out and gets it for her, just because, and isn't waiting for a special occassion. They aren't BIG gifts... they are 'from the heart' gifts... simply because he is paying attention. HE is noticing what matters to her, what she needs. Not buying her stuff HE would neccessarily like to see her in, i.e., when she needed underwear, he got what she wore, not panties from VS. This stuff matters. A ton. CeMar, I think you said your wife coaches volleyball. Buy her a new whistle, or a new clip board...
He paid attention when she said she likes him to be the pursuer, even though that was extremely difficult for him in view of the affair. That shows tremendous strength on his part.
On the very first date I had with the guy I am seeing, he brought me an apple. Not a rose. An apple. A granny smith apple at that... because he noticed that I LOVE them, I always am nibbling on apples. That MELTED my heart. Because he noticed.
I don't want to speak for TL, but in my view, the very fact that she agreed to the schedule and that she is trying, and sticking to it... geeze. That sounds like 'desire' to me. May not be 'over-the-top, I have to have it, now!!!!' desire...
I'm curious. Are you looking for your W to desire being with you, or being with your penis? Seriously. These are two different types of desires, and I am STILL perplexed as to what you are after. If I get that in my head, maybe I could make more helpful suggestions to you.
Quote: You say Saturday is "oral" day. Are both of you getting oral?
Nope. Just me When we started discussing scheduling this, my suggestion was Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Her response was, "Let's make that Sunday instead, but since it's so long from Thurs to Sun, I'll help you out a little Saturday morning."
Now, if that ain't love, I don't know what is
Quote: How does your wife ever show you "Desire", or do you not need this?
Need it? No. Want it? Absolutely. I'm a guy. Also, being a guy, I know my other choice is to not have it at all. No brainer. If she just laid there, squeezed her eyes shut, and said, "Hurry up" I'd say no thanks. But she's not that way at all. She's very sweet, and I'm very good to her. It ain't ideal right now, but what is? And I should say that every other part of our life, from our social time to working together on projects and managing finances, to dealing w/the kids is great, better than it's ever been.
She says she doesn't have much desire for me right now, and may never. So the other alternative is not to have it at all. It really hurts that she's not attracted to me right now. Really hurts. But my previous treatment of her pretty well stomped that out years before she cheated, and I understand that. I was extremely mean, hateful, and critical to her, so I Don't blame her for it...it's just a consequence I have to live with. I wouldn't have any desire for someone like that either. However, I truly hope that will change because now I truly love and respect her, and the quality of that love is so much better because I am so much better. There is way more that's gone into this than cotton underwear and pink binders, too. Many of the more serious problems like me never truly listening to her, not solving problems together, etc., are 180 degrees different now, and it's made a huge difference. Plus, I identified all of the things she hated doing around the house, and now I do them when I'm home. Doing the dishes, for instance. She's a great cook, but hates spending all that time cooking, then having to clean it all up herself, plus do laundry, manage the home, take care of the kids, THEN find time to do stuff she likes (church stuff, garage sales, part-time job). So as long as I'm home, the kitchen is spotless and the dishes are done. I told her that she's the star in the kitchen, so I'm her road crew that makes it all happen and cleans up afterward. Makes a huge difference in everything, and was something I never really did for 10+ years.
Quote: How does she show you that you turn her on FIRST?
She doesn't because, right now, I don't turn her on first. I can't, even though I try anyway. But I'm a grownup, and I love her, so I got over it. Our sitch is this: I'm a decent looking guy, in great shape (running, weights, sports) at 39, and she has always told me that when it comes to the physical part of sex, I do everything right and then some. No complaints, and she usually sings my praises. But my previous treatment of her made that irrelevant.
There is no magic that removes that or suddenly replaces it either. I think we as men just want to fix things and have them be better. Well, I do everything I can to repair the damage to our relationship that I caused, and I believe she is as well, so I just try and be the best I can be in everything every day, and have gotten to the point where I'm no longer a problem here. So I hope that element will return. But there is no magic, no guarantee, and while I'm not happy about it, I understand my role in all this.
I finally truly understand what a precious gift her love, desire, and body were/are, so if I'm ever blessed with ALL of that again, I will treasure it like you wouldn't believe.
And like I always say, if after all this she ever decides to dump me anyway, if there ever is a wife #2 she's going to hit the mother lode
I don't want to give the impression it's easy. It's not. But she's worth it, our family's worth it.
Quote: He's noticing what she likes without her having to tell him. He goes out and gets it for her, just because, and isn't waiting for a special occassion. They aren't BIG gifts... they are 'from the heart' gifts... simply because he is paying attention. HE is noticing what matters to her, what she needs. Not buying her stuff HE would neccessarily like to see her in, i.e., when she needed underwear, he got what she wore, not panties from VS. This stuff matters. A ton.
Yep, that's it. Exactly. It's all about her...but because she sees how sincerely I make it all about her, she responds in kind. She's really great.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
EXCELLENT post! CeMar, are you paying attention? He's accepting his W for who she is and how she is RIGHT NOW, he's doing HIS part in fixing the things in their R that he can, he's not waiting on her to fix things.
True acceptance of the other person and owning your own behavior (and working on it) is PRICELESS in repairing rifts/damage in relationships.
Toughlover, kudos to you for learning what touches your W's heart. Things like that truly do make a difference. It's something my H is figuring out too....just about a week ago I was not feeling well. He remembered from five years ago that when I don't feel well there's a soup I used to go buy myself at a Vietnamese place that always seemed to help me feel better. He drove 40 miles out of his way to go buy that soup and bring it home for me....without telling me. THAT made me feel loved and cherished.
One of the things I would like to give you a heads up on is the whole... desire coming before the sex thing. I've been LD, and one of the things that kills desire is what you said exactly... how you treated her... but you are changing that, and that is all you can do.
However. For some women, they do not begin to experience desire until they are aroused. I think this is fairly typical for a number of women in LTRs. I was stunned to find out that I am one of those women. I thought, for YEARS, that there was something WRONG with me because I rarely wanted it NOW.
In realizing this, I also had to realize that I was in charge of my own desire. When I was dating and in the lovely chemical phase, the horniness was taken care of on its own. I thought that's how I was supposed to be all the time. Some women are... but alas, I am not blessed with that.
So in this time of rebuilding, I would encourage you to help your wife understand her own sexuality... help her understand that she may never be the woman who feels desire before arousal. In this awareness, she can work with how she is built. Otherwise, she may misinterpret this 'desire' absence as an indicator that there is something wrong in the marriage, that some need of hers is not being met by YOU...
In short... she is going to have to learn to take charge of her own desire. She is doing it now, with you, on a schedule... but it may become frustrating for her over time if she is expecting to return to the days of the 'dating feel.' Things may go back to the way they were, and you will begin to revert as well...
I cannot underscore this enough. There are PLENTY of books out there that I could recommend to the two of you if you are willing to read together. Let me know.
GEL, Thanks. The thing about it is that I always knew that stuff was important to my W, I just thought it was because she was very selfish and self-centered, which she was at one time...probably still tends to be, but she's matured a lot, and we were both on the young side when we met.
And I surprised my wife at home with her favorite soup from her favorite restaurant one day at lunchtime as well...although it's right on my way home from the office, which is less than five mins from my house, so no sacrificial driving involved
Corri,
Thanks. I will probably take you up on that. Right now she's really wanting to be pretty casual about the sex and not talk too much about it. I, of course, WANTED to talk about it so I had to learn to back off and give it some time before it became something she was really comfortable getting into and exploring. I think she's really liking the stuff I'm doing now outside the bedroom, and just keeping things relaxed and light and fun seems to be what she wants.
So, for the time being, it looks like I'm going to have to just bite the bullet and endure a steady diet of casual sex with my wife in order to save my marriage
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
I will bow to your discretion, of course. 'No pressure,' is a great route to take, IMHO. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
If you are into reading books that may help you along your path... I'd recommend you RUSHING out to get "The Way of the Superior Man," by David Deida. I have to say... the man that he talks about in that book... is the man that **I** want, the man I'd climb a mountain for. And I happen to agree with a lot of what he says.
Anyway. Why am I reading a book written by a man for men? 'Cuz I'm dam curious to know what a man who writes a book for men on how to be a superior man would say. I'm not all the way done with it yet, and I'm just getting into part two on how men should deal with women... but all in all... I keep thinking to myself... 'yep, yep, and yep.'
So. There. I feel better giving you at least one book recommendation. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I'll read it. Any chance you'd be willing to post me a quick rundown of the high points you think would be helpful for me to think about, the things you read and think "YES!"?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Scheduled sex is basically sex without desire. In the long run it normally fails, because both parties will eventually resent it.
Quote: I'm curious. Are you looking for your W to desire being with you, or being with your penis? Seriously. /quote]
Actually, in order for marriage to work, it has to be both. Beverly DeAngilis sums it up best in this quote:
Quote: However, we know that men are into it, and ladies, you need to understand why they love receiving oral sex so much. A man’s penis is not only the most sensitive part of his body, but the most vulnerable. It represents his maleness, his sense of power, his identity. Men don’t love oral sex just because it feels so good--they love it because it makes them feel so accepted, so received. It isthe only sexual act during which he can be totally passive, and you become the aggressor. You give, and he receives, experiencing a more feminine, receptive mode
It sure beats having them treat it like this then like it was a rabid dog!
When we started discussing scheduling this, my suggestion was Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Her response was, "Let's make that Sunday instead, but since it's so long from Thurs to Sun, I'll help you out a little Saturday morning."
