I wanted to talk with others whose H has been having an EA. BeingMe, if you are reading this I especially wanted to talk to you, because I read some of your posts, and I wondered if you deal differently with an EA. I have lots of things to get advice on from you. L.
The reason I started this new post is because some seem to make a distinction somewhat between an emotional affair and a sexual affair. My H claims his is an EA, that he has never had sex with her, that she doesn't believe in sex before marriage. She just believes in being a homewrecker, and taking another womans H for her own. She is D, and supposedly her EX was screwing around on her. My H says her H wants her back, but of course we all know that 99.9% of the things that come out of their mouths is a lie. So, I vent here and try to make sense out of it all, try to learn from everyone else here, and give a little advise from time to time. But I just would like to talk to someone whose sitch is that H says it is emotional, not physical. Thanks all who have read this. L
my H left me and our 8 year old daughter after a three week (yes, really that long) EA with a married OW. Of those 3 weeks, she had been abroad for 2 of them (so very limited actual time together). Almost my first (very non-DBing) words to my H were along the lines "trust you to have an affair and not get sex out of it". So I started well
Until then (June this year) I had never heard of EAs and frankly thought he was lying to me (not an unreasonable assumption as he's since lied about everything else). I then did some 'homework', read a few books, spoke to a counselor and learned that EAs are often extremely powerful, emotional relationships where there quickly develops a deep and profound bond between them. There is usually a strong sexual chemistry which - at least for a time - is not acted on (I gues that adds to the excitement). Apparently also there is a common element of secrecy which is a core part of it. I think they often go on to become sexual relationships, but apparently not always.
My H moved out in July and so I imagine their R is now a physical one (I try not to think about it actually). Their R started out in a typical fantasy bubble - both were married and quickly shared all their deepest (or supposedly deepest) thoughts and feelings (like what a s**t wife I am - that kind of stuff!) - and he must have spent literally hours a day emailing and texting her. In my H's case it was a total infatuation - I counted he had sent her 30 lengthy emails from work on one day alone!
I think many Hs and Ws having these EAs think that because they're not sexual they're somehow OK - they are definitely not. They always involve communication between them that they would not want you (or anyone else) to hear and they supposedly meet some emotional need which is not being satisfied at home. Apparently they involve 3 things: emotional intimacy, secrecy and sexual chemistry. Apparently many PAs are easier to end and get over as there is often little feeling or emotion involved - not so with these beauties... They are dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.
The OW in your case could be the same person as mine (they all seem to be made from the same mould!). My H's OW told him (and I have seen the emails) that she loved her H and was prepared to wait to have sex with my H as she didn't want to "spoil" such an important event (and she even specified ideal places including a cottage in Tuscany or in the mountains in Spain - WTF!). Clearly she is a woman of high and pure moral values who isn't cheap and doesn't want to rush into anything!! ( I am sure my H would believe that as well). This OW apparently, now into her second marriage, has a history of flirtations and affairs, suicide attempts and manic depression - a good solid bet then! Somehow she is a wonderful woman - everything I am not (you bet!!) and worries about her H (how would he cope without her?) if she left him (apparently he is a lovely man but boring). She is a typical OW, professing that her overwhemingly powerful emotions for my H meant she couldn't help herself (she texted me once to say "I am so sorry - I didn't mean for it to happen" - well stop it then!!)
In these situations I think we live in the real world, managing and supporting our children, jobs, household, money, etc., while they run away cocooned in their little fantasy bubbles totally unable to cope with real life anymore. It has to be a form of madness - but for how long? I keep reading that these things usually last between 6 months and 2 years (with most around 6 months) - so I'm counting the days and weeks...
Is your H at home? Is he keeping up a pretence with you that OW is not important?
I have to agree with ElizabethJ. My W had and is still possibly having an EA with a prison inmate. This Man was engaged to be married with her before his incarceration 15 years ago and before I started dating her 10 years ago. We have been married for 8 years now. I can tell you from experience that even though the physical part is impossible at this point, there still is a VERY strong bond that I doubt will be broken easily. She says it's over and I don't know whether to believe her or not. She also questions the harm of it... Oh of course honey there is nothing wrong with a M woman spending her whole Saturday afternoon in the prison visiting an inmate. I've been lied to so many times that I just stopped verifying what she tells me a long time ago. It does give me pause to reconcile with her at this time simply because I do not want to be having to constantly look over my shoulder every time this Man comes up for a parole hearing. If it was just a quick PA, I think I could forget and move on a little easier, but these EA can last a long time. When we were dating and before I married her, she swore up and down that she never really loved this Man and that she was completely over him, but 15 years later here we are.
It's my belief that these EA are far more disruptive and dangerous to a M then a physical one. Tread lightly!
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
My H is still at home and yes he said it was over with OW. I know he still has the "secret" cell phone, and that she leaves him several messages a day on most days. Mostly they are "Hey sweetheart, I (giggle giggle) am just about to leave for work, If you get this in the next five minutes, call me." Or, "Hey sweetheart, there is a black man walking down the street carrying a backpack, there's no telling what's in it.You might want to check him out." Or, "My friend saw someone driving very fast down the highway, and thought I should tell you to look out for him." Or, "Sorry I missed your call, call me back later." Or, "My mother is having surgery tomorrow." Or, "This is your favorite (giggle giggle) giggle box". So, they seem to have some sort of bond. It nauseates me to no end. She seems to play on his protective instinct, when I feel he should be protecting his own family from this kind of trash that blows in. But , yes he is at home, and we are sleeping together with occasional ML. He always thought I had a problem with having sex with him, but it was usually his timing, because I like it. And now, I am giving him all he wants and then some, so at least if they start a PA, then when she starts to turn him down, he will have the passionate nights and days of me to remember, and wish for. I hate (sort of) to say it, but I sometimes wish something truly awful would happen to her, but I know that is not the way a Christian should think, but I try to be more positive these days and H and I have gotten along well since our big blowup Sunday afternoon. I know she has written him letters saying she didn't want to give her heart if it was going to get broken, and other vile crap like that. All I can say is I couldn't care less about her disgusting heart. I think you are right, they are all just the same, they know how to play the game. Astimegoeson, Maybe this guy will never get parole, hopefully. NNP, yeah, I think so, too. It sure seems that way. Elizabeth, what does your H do now? Does he come over and see the sanity of your household? The OW is obviously a fruitcake, and when your H "wakes up", hopefully he will say WHAT IN THE HECK was I thinking? I know men like some excitement in their lives, just not insanity. Please all, keep posting, I want to hear all about these emotional trainwrecks and how yours are going, and any thing that's helped you, L
Oh, yeah, H's EA has been going on for at least a year and a half. I hope that means that if they last for 6 months to two years, then with my help, it is on the wane. L
VC - does your H understand that the R is inappropriate? (does he continue to tell you it's over even though you know it isn't?)
My H is still (I think) of the view that hell begins at my front door (even though it wasn't so bad until June). Like other postings I have read here my H has now utterly trashed our whole M, I assume in order to justify the shabbiness of his behaviour which includes leaving his daughter (which NONE of our friends can understand as until June he was always a MAJOR family man). So suddenly his life with me is described as the most misery any human could possibly have to put up with, whereas previously HE was depressed with his job, debt, emotional problems. This EA (probably now a PA) makes him feel wonderful - the fantasy takes him away from the real world where his problems are. I wonder how long before he'll crash back to reality - he has been gone a few months now - his job is still crap, he has even less money (as he's now helping to run two homes) and he must miss his daughter and feel some guilt about leaving her (doesn't he?!). He can't blame this on me rationally but I really think he still does (eg., none of this would have had to happen if I hadn't made him SO unhappy). Taking responsibility isn't one of his major strengths - blaming me for everything is.
I sometimes doubt he'll ever "wake up" actually. I certainly can't believe he'd ever acknowledge making a mistake and he never says sorry, so... I am not even sure at the moment that their R is going anywhere at all - he says they're moving in together - and maybe they are but there's no evidence of it (and she had previously been reluctant to leave her home).
Don't beat yourself over having "un Christian" thoughts. Feeling angry at them both is perfectly normal I think - I have plotted various types of retribution on H and OW many times and it makes me feel much better at times to do so!! (Just don't act on it ). I have promised myself a final message to OW when their R does finally end (regardless of what H does with me) telling her that I hope she's learned her lesson not to cheat on other women's Hs etc (I did write her a rather 'strong' letter earlier in the summer which ended by my wishing her "all the joy she deserved" so I'll probably remind her of that.) Quite tame really but it'll give me the last word and that will feel good. I can wait... !
Their behaviour is nauseating you're quite right. I think - hope - your approach is right and I admire your forbearance, but he has got to get this OW out of his life 100% completely before you can start to address what the issues are (eg., why does he feel he needs her?). Have you been to counselling? - would your H attend with you?
Elizabeth, yes, I have told him it was inappropriate, yes, he told me it was over even though I know they are still seeing each other and calling each other. He really thinks I believe that he gave the secret cell phone to her to deal with and pay for.NOT! He has told me that the EA is something he did for himself and he cares about OW.That the EA is a good thing, he isn't sorry or guilty. he has also trashed almost our entire M, too. I just wonder who the fella is in all the pics over the past twenty-three years smiling as though he was happy. He also was a major family man, saying just a few months age that he would rather spend time off work with his family. I can only hope that H being at home makes him feel some remorse for what it could ultimately do to our S13. Right now, though, he says he doesn't care, he was tired of doing for others, this is his time to do for himself. I, too have had thoughts of retribution, like maybe a billboard with "The Face Of A Husband-Stealing Whore" on it with her picture. I wish I did have your nerve to write her a letter, but H would freak out and probably move out. Yeah, I can wait, too. I hope she doesn't, and moves on so H can see her for what she really is. Thanks, Elizabeth, it helps to talk to someone who, unfortunately, is in the same boat as I am.
P.S. H said he didn't need counseling it was all my problem, all my fault he "had" EA P.S. I want to hear more about what you are doing, and what's working or what didn't.
I too have been recovering from discovering my husband having an affair which for the most part was/is an EA although it did turn into a PA on two occassions. The biggest struggle for me is that after the discovery, he is now coming forward with many, many issues in our marriage. We had not had sex in a year and I knew we had intimacy problems but we also live in a city commuter community and have for the last 4 years. These past 4 years I have commuted to work 1 1/2 hours each way, worked 8 hours, picked up our son, did homework, took him to practice, etc. I have been extremely exhausted as well as not feeling too desirable. Well, he immediately tells me he no longer finds me attractive, doesn't desire me, has been unhappy for a long time (without saying a word), basically re-writes the marriage to make it the worst place he has ever been. This is for 21 years so I can't even tell you how devastated I am to hear all of this. One thing I will not do with all this rejection is allow myself to feel I am the blame for any unhappiness he has felt. WHY? Because we are all responsible for our own happiness and if he wasn't happy about something he should have spoken up about it! Instead, he avoided conflict and did nothing, until now, when caught in the lies and deciet of an affair. I continue to read what you all say about EA and I do believe that is true. EA's are very powerful and they do take those involved into a fantasy world. Before discovery, H did not ever intend to leave the marriage, actually thought of the EA/PA as a supplement to the M. CRAZY!!! The other thing I think is hard about EA's is that they are usually e-mail/cell phone conversations and are easily disquised so when they say it is over, it is truly hard to know as the trasparency isn't always there and might not ever be. I have been able to convince myself and H to try M counseling one more time since our fist attempt was a disaster.....intern counselor, too early in discovery to work for me, etc. I will say this, if your H says the affair is over but it isn't over, you need to take a firm position on what that means for YOU! YOU have to decide whether or not you can live with that and to tell you the truth, YOU deserve better! Find a way to bring out the strength in YOU and do what is best for YOU in this situation. Easier said than done since I walk somewhat in your shoes. But I have told myself that I will allow to be told only once in this new round of counsling that he is still in touch with her. Once he says he isn't or agrees to stop all contact (again), then that has to be the case. If he ever does contact her again, I am onto a divorce because there is no more trust in the relationship and quite honestly, no relationship at all. Remember, you are not alone and working on you is really the key here. You cannot change what your H does but you can change the way you behave towards him and in this situation. Sometimes it is the change in our own behavior that makes our path become alot more clearer. God Bless!
). I have promised myself a final message to OW when their R does finally end (regardless of what H does with me) telling her that I hope she's learned her lesson not to cheat on other women's Hs etc (I did write her a rather 'strong' letter earlier in the summer which ended by my wishing her "all the joy she deserved" so I'll probably remind her of that.) Quite tame really but it'll give me the last word and that will feel good. I can wait... !