Well, it definately sucks that I'm here posting again, but I just need to put my thoughts "down on digital paper" so I can work them through my system.
WARNING: this is extremely long and I'm not expecting many people to read it all or respond to it - I just need to get it out of my system and this is how I do it.
I left town for business for two weeks. During that time Ms.Geek had to do 100% of the work at home (two kids and a job) while I was gone.
On my side I got to be a bachelor for two weeks. Of course, I did not go anywhere (I'm not a social person). BUT, I did get to do a lot of things that would not be acceptable at home. Even though my sex life was "solo" as you will understand, it was totally on my schedule with me fantasizing about whatever I wanted. These times are quite uplifting AND at the same time very detrimental to our relationship. I of course start thinking about how nice it would be to have this level of comfort at HOME with a person I have been with for 20 years. It upsets me that I must keep my sexual nature in the closet when at home and lower my level to hers so that SHE is comfortable.
So, as Friday rolls around other guys in the class I'm attending are getting excited and saying things like "I'm gonna get laid tonight - can't wait!" - and I'm thinking "not me, I'm going to get home to a tired woman who has been working 24x7 since I left and will have NO interest in sex..."
So, I know it doesn't help when I set up these scenarios, but that is pretty much the way it played out... not only that, but the first 36 hours were full of stabbing statements like "the ice cube tray never ran empty while you were away" or "the trash was taken out EVERY day while you were gone..."
Now, don't get me wrong... everyone also said dozens of times that they were SO happy to have me back and MISSED me so much. But, I did not see any spark in my wife's eye, so I just put sex on the shelf the first two nights. On the second night I was up 30 minutes later than wife watching tv with daughter and came to bed with her half asleep. No problem... (this is a foreshadowing event that you will understand later).
So, Saturday and Sunday are pretty rough with serious talks (not quite arguements) about everything under the sun... mainly how much of a jerk I'm being since I got home... though she also comes clean about the fact that she has been pretty abrasive to me.
So Sunday afternoon seems to start going smooth again and I'm thinking that if we are going to have "welcome home" sex it would probably be tonight. She seems friendly, but that's about it. She tells me she is going to bed at 10:30pm. I sit there for a minute or two debating if I should jump up and follow her upstairs. I just can't do it. There are a number of reasons...
1. we haven't gotten along well since I got home and that does not make me feel close to her
2. she is very selfish in bed - I do all the work, so when I'm not 100% horny it is real hard to get ME and HER in the mood, conduct the entire event to her liking, etc...
3. she has not TOLD me she was in the mood, she has not WINKED, HINTED, ANYTHING - she is asking me to put my neck out on her sexual chopping block based on the simple fact that she has been pleasant to be around and is going to bed 5 MINUTES before her normal bedtime.
4. she told me a month ago that I do not need to worry about her sexual needs - she is an adult and is capable of asking / initiating if she has the desire
5. lately, she has insisted on having sex without birth control - she says "I'm not going to get pregnant" her only reasoning being the fact that she is over 40. We have had the dicussion a dozen times - she would not be sad one bit if we had more children - I am quite happy with the two we have and have no desire to go back to changing diapers. I feel that her manipulating me to have sex without a condom is her version of russian roulette in which she can only win. As such, it makes me resistant to have sex with her because I know we are going to get to that debate each time now.
So, I just kinda take my time getting to bed and make it up there at 11:05pm (which is about 30 minutes after she went). She is half asleep again JUST LIKE THE NIGHT BEFORE... and I kiss her goodnight and climb into bed. I actually find myself laying there in such a WEIRD situation where I am praying that she WILL NOT touch me or want sex - while at the SAME time I'm dying from lack of sex - I don't think anyone can understand how this feels except for you guys here on this board.
So, she does nothing and I fall asleep. I wake up several times during the night. Once at 2:30AM with a full erection. Of course, if she wakes up in the middle of the night "in the mood" she wakes me (has happened once in the past year) - and it doesn't matter what is on my schedule for the next day... I tried waking her once in the middle of the night and almost got my manhood chopped off.
So, I'm not doing anything about it and I just go back to sleep. So, I get up in the morning feeling disappointed and confused, but definately not expecting the reception I got from her in the kitchen. She is pissed. You can tell, but she's trying to hide it. So, I go jogging and figure we'll talk when I get back. So, I get back and when I walk into the bedroom she says to me "you didn't come to bed last night." "WHAT? I came to bed last night at 11:05pm and you kissed me goodnight. What are you talking about?" So, now we go through 15 minutes of low level arguement about me "not coming to bed" which I learn is code for "didn't initiate sex".
She says that I have now ruined her day. I'm making her wish I had not come home. Things where less stressful without me.
I tell her that while I admit being uncomfortable about our sex life right now - I did NOT make a concious decision to HURT her. She feels that I did and that I resisted "coming to bed" last night only to hurt her.
The only connection this has to the truth is that everytime she said something spiteful to me since my return home I felt my sex drive drop a notch. So, to say that I did not have sex with her because I'm holding a grudge could hold some weight - though it could also be argued that I cannot be expected to be "in the mood" all the time when someone is taunting and prodding me.
She of course, thinks I'm the one causing all the problems. I even told her "what about your statement last month about how YOU can initiate when you want it because you are an adult...why is it MY fault we did not have sex last night?"
Her answer is "that was last month. It has nothing to do with the situation at hand - which is Mr.Geek not coming to bed because he wanted only to HURT Ms.Geek"
So, now she is going off to work all miserable and I have to wait 8 hours so we can pick it up where we left off.
I knew that all the discomfort we were feeling would be gone once we had sex. If I had just DONE IT last night we would be "over the discomfort hump" so to speak. But, it was the fact that I HAD to do it even though she was doing NOTHING to welcome the event that made me turn off.
As a matter of fact, the night I came home I tested the waters with a few touches and light kisses and EVERY one was met with repulsion.
So, now it will be several days before we are both anywhere near comfortable enough to have sex. Then it will be plain vanilla sex followed by 2-3 weeks of no sex (everything back to normal for her) - for me, the start of a crappy sex life again.
Yet, I wish we could just have sex or that I had just done it last night so I would not have to go through her pissy mood for three days with me being required to say "I'm sorry" every 15 minutes. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and if I had known how much she was hoping to have sex last night it probably would have turned me on - instead, I was left sitting on the couch wondering how she felt because she was not showing any signs...
Well, I think I'll just end it there and try to find something to do that will take my mind off this crap.
I read your post (the whole thing) and have a question for you.
Why aren't you being honest with your W? I mean radically honest with her?
Yes, you came to bed last night, you were right in that when you said that to her....BUT you didn't initiate sex because of the tension & behaviors between the two of you....why didn't you tell her that? SHE DIDN't give you any clear signals she was interested in sex, her behavior in fact was pushing you away...and it's HER behaviors towards you in part that is also killing your desire to have sex with her.
You need to tell her these things....if she gets pissed off (and she likely will) you need to let her OWN her own reactions and feelings, don't rescue her from them or try to placate her to make things appear better....because it won't help.
Geek...tell the woman, "when you behave as you are, when you push me away....I DON'T want to have sex with you. You cannot treat me as you have been (give examples)...and expect that I'm going to want to be intimate with you." "When I'm a jerk to you...do you want to have sex with me?"
Don't hold this stuff in ("she was doing NOTHING to welcome the event that made me turn off"), get it out of your system....to her.
Quote: So, I know it doesn't help when I set up these scenarios, but that is pretty much the way it played out... not only that, but the first 36 hours were full of stabbing statements like "the ice cube tray never ran empty while you were away" or "the trash was taken out EVERY day while you were gone..."
Is there any merit in what she said, even though it was said meanly? Are there household chores that are your responsibility that aren't handled consistantly?
Quote: 1. we haven't gotten along well since I got home and that does not make me feel close to her
2. she is very selfish in bed - I do all the work, so when I'm not 100% horny it is real hard to get ME and HER in the mood, conduct the entire event to her liking, etc...
3. she has not TOLD me she was in the mood, she has not WINKED, HINTED, ANYTHING - she is asking me to put my neck out on her sexual chopping block based on the simple fact that she has been pleasant to be around and is going to bed 5 MINUTES before her normal bedtime.
4. she told me a month ago that I do not need to worry about her sexual needs - she is an adult and is capable of asking / initiating if she has the desire
5. lately, she has insisted on having sex without birth control - she says "I'm not going to get pregnant" her only reasoning being the fact that she is over 40. We have had the dicussion a dozen times - she would not be sad one bit if we had more children - I am quite happy with the two we have and have no desire to go back to changing diapers. I feel that her manipulating me to have sex without a condom is her version of russian roulette in which she can only win. As such, it makes me resistant to have sex with her because I know we are going to get to that debate each time now.
Geek, you need to gird your loins and tell your wife all of the above. When you find yourself having conversations in your head in response to your spouse without ever verbalizing them - you increase your misery and decrease any opportunity for intimacy.
I did tell her that our lack of connection had caused me to not be in the mood. She feels that while the first 36 hours were rough, she was very pleasant the last 12 and as such I should want to have sex with her - the fact that I did not is only explained (in her opinion) by a desire on my part to inflict pain and suffering on her.
I only give her ground on these statements because I know for a fact that if I am horny and she says some nasty critical thing I can hear a voice in my head say "well, who wants to have sex with YOU - not me..."
Hi Geek- of course we will read ALL and ANYTHING you post! That's what we're here for.
I don't have any advice, just empathy. ((((Geek))))
Change the genders of the parties in this paragraph and I can totally relate
Quote: So, as Friday rolls around other guys in the class I'm attending are getting excited and saying things like "I'm gonna get laid tonight - can't wait!" - and I'm thinking "not me, I'm going to get home to a tired woman who has been working 24x7 since I left and will have NO interest in sex..."
I remember that in my book club, the husband of one of the ladies had been in Iraq for six months (he's a doctor in the Army), and when he got home, they took a vacation to Hawaii with their kids. She also dropped those "reunion" comments, and I was just eaten up with envy.
And also this
Quote: I am praying that she WILL NOT touch me or want sex - while at the SAME time I'm dying from lack of sex - I don't think anyone can understand how this feels except for you guys here on this board.
This sometimes happens with me/us in the morning... I'm hoping and NOT hoping at the same time that he'll start something. And just when I get my mind in a place where I think his is going to start something, and I'm thinking, "oh boy!" he'll say, "I need some coffee!" and jump out of bed. In case you're thinking, "why don't you start something?" I used to-- when we first got together I woke him with a bj most mornings-- but he still would rather get up and drink coffee.
Is there any merit in what she said, even though it was said meanly? Are there household chores that are your responsibility that aren't handled consistantly?
yes, there is a LOT of merit to it and I apologized for every situation that I was "falling behind" on - it's just hard to go from two weeks of being alone to full speed family member mode. I felt like I needed to make up for two weeks of not being here and she was right there on my back making sure I was pulling my weight.
We had many discussions about this and she assured me that she did not feel that way and was only "getting on me" in an abrasive way to get through some issues and was sorry she was doing it...
I am so with you Andrew - when we first got married it was 50/50 - if I did oral on her, she did oral on me... then over the years it went to 90/10 and then it went to "once a year" on a special day like my birthday - always a quick "1 minute, there I did it..." never a "I really want to focus on making you feel good..."
Now, it's more like never... unless something weird happens like she has a little alcohol AND she's had a good day AND I initiate just right AND she gets really hot AND AND AND... so, as such... it pretty much doesn't happen any more..
GS: With regards to what MrsNop picked up on, my recommendation is to buy a refrigerator with an icemaker. Life is too short to refill ice cube trays. And yeah, empty the trash when you notice it needs it, but, on the other hand, does that job have your name, and your name only, engraved on it?
I am totally tracking you, dude. Especially that feeling you get when you're lying in bed next to her and you're thinking how great it would be to ML, but, at the same time, dreading the experience. To me, the reality of ML with W bears no resemblance to anything I should be eagerly anticipating.
One final word about her "reasoning" that she can't get pregnant since she's over 40. You know what they call women like that? "Mommy." And you'll be "Daddy" unless you insist on BC or get yourself snipped. My vote is for the vasectomy. If you change your mind, it is possible to get it reversed, and there is always the possibility of adoption.
Geek, I think I've been in this situation quite a few times.... as the other side - the W. I'm not saying it's exactly the same... but it could be. Maybe if I post what I was thinking during those times, it might give you some insight on how to handle this?
Quote:
I left town for business for two weeks. During that time Ms.Geek had to do 100% of the work at home (two kids and a job) while I was gone.
So, I know it doesn't help when I set up these scenarios, but that is pretty much the way it played out... not only that, but the first 36 hours were full of stabbing statements like "the ice cube tray never ran empty while you were away" or "the trash was taken out EVERY day while you were gone..."
Now, don't get me wrong... everyone also said dozens of times that they were SO happy to have me back and MISSED me so much. But, I did not see any spark in my wife's eye, so I just put sex on the shelf the first two nights.
W post: So my H left for work for a couple of weeks. On the one hand it was really great because I got time to to stuff for my myself and with the kids. On the other hand it was really stressful because I didn't have any help to do things. I'm exhausted but I also missed H. When H finally came back, I was hoping he would have missed me too. I pictured him bringing me flowers and telling me how much he missed me. Ot telling me he had been to a great hotel and that he would take me on a weekend trip there just by ourselves. But no, he came back tired and stressed again. He didn't seem excited to see me at all. Didn't really want to tell me much about the trip. Why do I even hope for these things... he never does them anyway. He never does anything! Look at all the stuff that I got done even by myself that he never seems to have the time or mind set to do!
So that's it then, no hugs, no I missed you, no compliments. He obviously doesn't want me. Hmmm.. why doesn't he want me? Doesn't he want sex? Maybe he had sex there and doesn't want it? OMG. Maybe he had an A? Well, I'll watch out and see if he makes any moves.
On the second night I was up 30 minutes later than wife watching tv with daughter and came to bed with her half asleep. No problem... (this is a foreshadowing event that you will understand later).
W post: Well he's been back for over a day and he still doesn't want me. I went to bed and he didn't even feel the need to come to bed at the same time as me. He knows how tired I am. Why does he exepct me to wait up for him. Maybe he just needs to relax a bit. Maybe it was a really stressful trip. Oh well, maybe tomorrow.
So, Saturday and Sunday are pretty rough with serious talks (not quite arguements) about everything under the sun... mainly how much of a jerk I'm being since I got home... though she also comes clean about the fact that she has been pretty abrasive to me.
W post: Ugh! He can't seem to understand how exhausting this week was for me! Couldn't he take care of me and things just for a few days? Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is. I'm frustrated that he doesn't find me attractive enough anymore to rip my clothes off and say he wants me and I'm angry at this Mom/housekeeper that I've become.
So Sunday afternoon seems to start going smooth again and I'm thinking that if we are going to have "welcome home" sex it would probably be tonight. She seems friendly, but that's about it. She tells me she is going to bed at 10:30pm. I sit there for a minute or two debating if I should jump up and follow her upstairs. I just can't do it. There are a number of reasons...
Ok, so maybe I've been a little too mean to him. I'll be friendly so that the opportunity for "welcome home" sex can arise. So at about 10.30, after hanging around him and staying up just waiting for him to say something, I go to bed a little early saying "I'm going to bed". I expected him to join me! I though by going to bed early we could fool around but still not be so tired the next day. I mean he must be wanting some by now, right? What if he doesn't? He must really not be attracted ot me at all if he doesn't want it by now.
He didn't come to bed. That hurts me a lot. I obviously mean nothing to him if TV was more important than making love to me.
The things is:
1. we haven't gotten along well since H got home and that does not make me feel close to him
2. After being Mom all day, it takes a while to get horny. I wish he would sweep me up sometimes and make me feel like a sexy woman. Sometimes he holds back like he's waiting for me to take more action in bed, but really, I need to feel sexy. And he doesn't make me feel sexy.
3. I give him hints that I'm in the mood, but he just doesn't seem to get it. I don't want to just say it because I'm afraid of getting hurt when he turns me down. I don't want to give him that power.
I lay there waiting for him to come to bed, getting more and more upset and frustrated. When he finally did come to bed, I was half asleep. He kissed me but made no other moves. By this time I was angry with all the scenarios going through my head: he doesn't love me. He doesn't find me the least bit sexy. He never romantically just sweeps me off my feet to ML. I lay there for a while thinking if maybe I should initiate but again I get worried he'll say he's too tired. Then he starts snoring. OK, yes he's still tired from his trip. Maybe. I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night horny, but I did that once and I didn't get the reaction I was expecting so I never tried again. I know it was just once, but he really didn't seem to enjoy it. Why doesn't he touch me????? Am I really that disgusting? He must want sex, right? Why would he be doing this to me? He must be doing it to hurt me for something I've done. Well if he's going to be that way it's ridiculous!! I'll talk to him tomorrow. Something is wrong!
Yes, some parts are ridiculous. But it's what can go through our heads. While each is expecting the other to back down, to intiaite, to be romantic, to make a move... nothing changes. So, to DB: Do something different!
The night my H dropped the bomb, the subject of sex came up in a very candid manner. He thought that one of the signs that we just weren't meant to be together was how our sex life had dwindled. In his mind, we only ML once a month. That's not true - it was more often than that, but both of us had wanted it more. Why didn't we have it more? Because of silly miscommunications like the one you just described. He thought XXX, I thought YYY and it never came out in the open. There were probably nights when both he and I were lying in bed thinking "Why doesn't she/he initiate?" Oh he/she must be tired/stressed/mad/sad/etc, etc, etc...
How different it would have been if we had just come clean about it. In the beginning of our R, we used to have a code word for when we were feeling horny. We used it when we were in public settings so the other would know instantly that we were in the mood, no matter where we were. We stopped using it after a while... what a stupid thing to do.
Bring it out in the open, Geek. Don't play games and use body language. Be honest. I'll bet that most of the time you're feeling horny, she is too.
May it be eternal while it lasts.
My sitch
Me: 36
H:34
M: 5 years
Bomb: 03/14/06
... but I'll take what I can get!