Happy BD and best wishes for something more fullfilling in the future. Can't recall how long you have been in this predicament where you and your wife are housemates only - seems like it has been some time.
Your BD reminds me of my recent BD and 25th wedding anniversary (they are a few days apart). For the past few months I have been re-evaluating my views of moral correctness after marking these milestones. In our case we went on a spectacular 2 week cruise with one week of touring Italy as part of the big 5oth BD/25th anniversary celebration. This celebration marked the 14th straight year of no affection - none, not even a little. Got the big "I am not interested" when cuddling up with her on my 50th and got the "don't even think about it" lecture again as I opened my eyes on the morning of our 25th. During the rest of the holiday it was our usual brother/sister living as housemates routine.
After returning from our holiday, I got to thinking why do my morals require me to be a celebat monk? Keeping busy routines can't and doesn't fullfill the void you have when you have a moment to relax or satisfy you as you try to fall sleep at night. Self pleasure is great - but for how long? Why does life have to be so cold and unfeeling for so long? After all of this and realizing that life is short and your remaining time is getting shorter as each day passes, why do I hold the moral views that I have - why should these views ultimately hold me in such an unsatisfying and unfullfilling "prison" with very little chance for escape? I don't have any concrete answers for me at this point, but I am seriously considering redefining what is morally acceptable to me after years of being bound and shackled by these beliefs.
Not sure if you are at the same point in your life as me and with a younger family what this could mean for you HD, but at some point you may arrive at the same conclusions - some adaptation of your moral views may be appropriate.
GGB: I read this post, then went back and read mine again. I guess it does sound like I had a good birthday/weekend. Funny, I wrote it while full of resentment, anger, sadness, self-pity. Birthdays just seem to toll yet another year in my SSM for me. Actually, to call it a SSM is charitable. It is a LSM - love starved marriage. The highlight of all interaction with my W this weekend was when, after lunch yesterday, she called me and said, as if she had forgotten to mention it during the lunch, "hey, thanks for lunch. It was delicious."
That was the highlight. That was the only time in the 48+ hours of the weekend where I felt even moderate affection from her. If it had just been a normal weekend, I probably wouldn't be so affected by the lack of affection, but dammit, it was my birthday.
I kept on telling myself, "it's not as bad as it was in 1997." That year, the last birthday spent with my now ex-wife, was the worst in my life. Following my refusal to approach a local football player for an autograph while at a bar, she tried to eject me from the car in a ghetto. Then, she drove home at dangerous speeds, and hit about three orange barrels with the side view mirror on my side of the car, while men were still working on the road. I said to myself, "this is the last birthday I will spend with this psycho." I wasn't sure I was going to make it home alive.
So, when I feel sad, unloved, and generally ignored by my W on my birthday, I comfort myself by saying, essentially, it could be worse, it could by 1997, but it's not.
The problem, of course, is that such a bright-line distinction keeps me and her and our marriage in our "comfort zone." (What a misnomer. It's only comfortable compared to divorce. Otherwise, it's more of a discomfort zone.) If I tell myself that it's not worth leaving until it gets worse than my 1st marriage, then it will continue forever.
And, while I'm b!tching, let me b!tch some more. She was sharing some info with me about an NPR story she'd heard about a woman who wrote a book on parenting. The author was commenting about oral sex and school-aged kids,and how girls participated in this because it wasn't really "sex." W went on to indicate that most women didn't enjoy getting it, and practically no women enjoyed giving it...that it was all about the boy "getting off" and not at all about the girl.
I just looked at her, refusing to engage. But here's what I said to her in my mind: "Just because you feel this way about oral sex, and because you can find someone you think is an "expert" who might tangentially share your views, does not make your views right or normal or better or beyond reproach. I could easily find a large majority of women who would disagree with you regarding receiving oral sex, and most of them would laugh at your comment. Many of them would feel sorry for you that you apparently can't or won't experience the joy of cunnilingus. Many of them would likely believe that you were abused and, hearing your denials, would conclude that you have some issues which you refuse to acknowledge. "I could also find a lot of women who would tell you that they enjoy giving oral sex to their loved one. You dismissing their opinions because they are 'unenlightened' or not in touch with their own feelings would elicit laughter from them, and perhaps some pity and some derision. They would see your open 'disgust' with the act as, again, indicative of either some past abuse or some unacknowledged issues. I could probably find some women who might not enjoy the act that much, yet they still love their husbands enough to do this for them, knowing how much they enjoy it. What a show of love that is! How wonderful that must feel to those men! "Now, given that you refuse to accept or provide oral sex to/from me, this subject is closed. I no longer want to discuss it with you, hear your well-known opinion, or share my thoughts on it with you."
I'm done venting...for now. Yes, as a matter of fact, I do feel better now.
Monk: My moral views prevent me from having sex with women outside my marriage. My moral views also prevent me from divorcing my wife unless I get to a point where I think that our current relationship is doing more harm than good to the kids. I don't know if these morals will change, but right now, I see them as pretty strong.
If you are undergoing a change in your moral guidelines regarding extramarital sex, I hope you will still inform your wife of this. Even though you have been living "as housemates", I would think she is still entitled to know.
Hairy, Ah bummer. It sounded like it was better than what you had anticipated, and therefore good.
So why are you talking to yourself only about the OS? I realize you didn't want to engage with her over it, but it might have helped to actually say to her what you only said to her in your mind. It sounds like you've got a real fear of telling her what is on your mind (not that I blame you). What harm would have voicing your opinion done? It wasn't an indictment of her, unless she chose to take it that way. Harry, she can't read your mind, and every time you hold things like this in you are adding one more stick to the fire that is your resentment.
I almost get the impression that what she is really trying to do is get a reaction out of you more than anything else. HD, I'm guessing you need to stand up more for yourself.
Happy Belated Birthday from the other SSM August B-day guy (mine was Sunday)!
Your sounds like mine. I didn't expect any physical contact and didn't get any. No hugs, no kiss, no fcuk. Sigh. Did get to go to my choice for lunch. Had good time there. Got to mow the lawn and work on laundry too. Joy.
Now I get to see what happens on the anversary coming up the 1st of September.
Glad you're still feeling good and hanging in there, Hairy. And you're right it was better than 1997 for you.
Scott
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
The thing that struck me about the post about your birthday was the extent to which it reveals your wife as not just disengaged from you but disengaged from family activities. I mean even if I was feeling estranged, bitter and hateful toward my H, I would help my children celebrate his birthday.
This sort of points to something I've been thinking about your sich. You're miserable yet you're unwilling to change the status quo for a variety of good intentioned reasons. I think this stance gives you a feeling of control which you really don't have because you might be seriously underestimating your W's willingness to be the "bad guy" or ability to rationalize doing some "bad" things. Her sense of entitlement or feelings of resentment may cause her to take action that will violate the unstated treaty between the two of you of "We're staying together for the good of the kids.". For instance, let's say she gets a great job offer in a city 300 miles away. Why wouldn't she take it? This is why I would advise that you should take action. IMO you're exhausting yourself by taking on all the responsibility for bailing water from a sinking boat while your W is scanning the horizon looking for a relatively attractive, safe place to jump ship. If you stop bailing, she will have to either jump before she's ready, start bailing herself or actually work with you to fix the boat. (I know this analogy is in direct opposition to the Schnarchian differentiation analogy but I don't think they're incompatible )
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am curious why didn't you say these things to your wife? Why are you so darn scared of her. You know I honestly think you are a great guy and father. But honestly I am going to say something harsh here...but it is to only try to help. How on earth do you expect a woman to be sexually attracted to a robot? A woman likes to be challenged. We all LOVE the alpha male side to men. To me you are like this little robot so scared of rocking the boat in any way shape or form. It is clear to see that even this approach isn't working. There is going to have to be a time that you finally stand up for yourself, for what you need, and what you deserve. I really hope it is sooner rather then later. It's like you have given up. You clean when she wants something clean. You cook when she wants you to cook. You take care of the kiddo whenever she needs so she can make time for herself. You are afraid to stand up to her in a conversation when your views are different. I am just trying to tell you as a woman I know I love challenges in my life. I would never want a robot nor could I ever be sexually attracted to one. I think that is why on here you read so much about the take me method being such a turn on.
I can tell youi are really bummed and in a bad place. Take back what you need and start being happy. Start being you.
I think you have a point here. My H has only recently begun to stand up to me, or really....say things that he never would have...like differing opinions etc. He would never disagree with me about ANYTHING in the past, with the exception of the work he does. Why? Because he thought I'd get angry, or not like what he had to say. He assumed I'd have certain reactions...so he never spoke up. I have no doubt he thought many things, he just never spoke up. He's beginning to get over that fear now.
HD...speak up to her man! Say some of those things that run through you mind. It's good for you. If she gets pissy, let her...don't bite.
BTW...if anyone wants a chuckle, this is what my poor H gets to live with (a female version of Bill Engval I'm afraid). My H has a HORRIBLE snoring problem....so I occasionally have to sleep with ear plugs in. This morning around 3:30am I sat up after he started snoring to put my ear plugs in. My H rolls over and this was our convo:
H: What are you doing? GEL: Putting in my earplugs. H: Was I snoring? GEL: No, I just haven't worn them in awhile and thought I'd better make sure they still fit.
Apparantly he told that to most of the guys on his dock this morning....at least he got a laugh out of it LOL.
) 