I know Mollie, you are absolutely 110 percent right. I just find it was like ripping apart a gash that's been stitched together but not yet healed when his email about working this weekend came just after I had talked myself down from seeing her parked next to him. I know it's in the past, and H swears its done and he's glad, but the hurt is still there, more than I realize when nothing stirs it up.
Some days I actually find her antic funny. This was not one of those days.
Although as I think about it, on the other hand, there are some things he can do to help me get past this and actually showing me the "proof" in black and white is one of them. It just came to my mind the part I was reading in "After the Affair" when it mysteriously disappeared...it talked about the importance of clarifying specifically what it is you need, and then asking for it. It mentioned things like asking the spouse to wear their wedding rind, and to look at the phone bill and credit card statements along with other things. I'm guessing those stuck in my mind because they are issues with me.
So, hummmm, I'm thinking here and confusing myself I think. Your point about driving him away is so valid....and yet there comes a time when he needs to step up to the plate and deliver if he's serious, and make the delivery unmistakable.
I was just thinking that his kidding around about it is insensitive and upsetting, but that is not exactly right either. there are times when I can joke about it and the kidding doesnt bother me and I even kid him a little. but then other times I can't take any reminder of it. One of the books, I think After the Affair, identifies being able to kid about it as a sign of healing. Maybe the issue is that it's not a straight and certain path to "healing" but more of a crooked winding trail with lots of stumbling stones along the way.
I find I seem to be more sensitive this time of year, also, I guess because the hurt was so hard for 2 years between thanksgiving and new years. So maybe it's especially important for me to be tuned in to my own emotional state, and know that I'm probably going to easily overreact for the next month. and because of my over-emotionality, I need to be careful to stay away from anything even remotely connected to talking about the A for awhile. and steer the conversation away if H starts down that path?
I know you're right, who gives a rats a$s where she parks? letting it get to me is giving her way too much power, but still some days......
Hi Deb, For what it's worth, I have to say that I totally agree with MollieW. The more that you let yourself get anxious about all of what monster IS or IS NOT doing, the more power that you are giving to monster. For me, there was a point and time that I just "decided" to let it go. And I did! It took some time, but My H finally began to see that and it resulted in many improvements between my H and I.
Also .. you have to figure out a way so that your H knows you don't want to hear anymore about monster. I don't think that the both of you focusing in on her so much can be healthy?
Just my two cents.
Take care .. Keep on keeping on with all of the wonderful changes you have made!
I know I need to keep working on my anxiety, it is kinda weird, I go along great for quite a while and think I have it licked, then some little thing happens and it sneaks up and bites me in the rear again!
I also know that in reality I have no control over what H does or doesnt chose to do, so there is really nothing for me to be anxious about (I'm sure that makes no sense).
It just seems like "stuff" is so easily stirred up, probably because the memories of such heartbreaking things are just barely below the surface. it seems to be taking a long time to get past them, but in reality it hasnt been that long.
I'm sure it seems from my posts that we talk about monster all the time, but in actuality days go by without either of us mentioning her; it's just hard not to have her come up sometimes when we all work in such close proximity. oh yeah, I'll have to post about that in a minute.
I do feel like I can just tell H I don't want to talk about her anymore...he would, I believe, try to respect that, but I am hesitant to shut it off completely yet. not sure why. Other wise, I think I'm probably better off to discreetly direct the discussion to other topics when it veers towards her. And, as Mollie said, not to keep reminding him of her!
Would you believe? I serve as a departmental representative on an employee/managment committee at work, kind of like a "student council" type of thing. Guess who is likely also going to be on the committee this next year because of the expiring term of the current rep from her dept. and the small # of people eligible for it?????? yep, that's right. monster. I considered freaking out. I considered saying they'll have to find another rep from my dept. if she's on it. I considered all kinds of things. Then I decided "nahhhhh, she's not worth the trouble"...I'm kind of all most guessing she will refuse to participate....so let her look bad, not me. and if she DOES participate, I think I'll sit right next to her and smile. or better yet across the table and smile.
I had several emails from H today, and they seemed to become a little warmer, kind of weird and hard to describe, in the last one I sent, I asked if I could tell him again I loved him without being obnoxious, and he emailed back "you sure can! I love you too!", plus some other tidbits, including telling me he'd stop by to say hi before he went home.
He did stop by, and we visited for a few minutes. And this is odd....he was much much warmer than he has been the last couple of weeks. Not sure what to think, guess i'll try not to think to hard. but, we were standing face to face talking in my office (alone) and I reached inside his jacket (it was open) and hugged him and kissed him, and told him I'd been looking forward to hugging him all day and that I loved him a lot. He actually hugged and kissed back. Usually at work he's in a rush to get going....he actually kissed me and looked in my eyes and smiled...I said "what?" and he said "It's just so nice to have some one glad to see me" ???????? I got kind of teary, said I look forward to seeing him and being with him all the time, that I'm thankful we've gotten to where we are and that he is with me. He said "you don't need to thank me. You are the one who has shown me day in and day out that I am the love of your life and that you are the one who truly does love me". We talked a bit more, and he said " you need to tell me what you want for christmas"...I just smiled at him....this time he said "what" and I told him "I have you". He said "yes, you do, but I still need some ideas"...I mentioned that either last christmas or the one before when he'd asked what I wanted I had said "you"...and he said "well see, you got the present you wanted all those years", but said he didnt remember me saying that, and looked like he was trying to recall. I remember at the time he told me I was being "pushy" to say that...and I mentioned that (probably shouldnt have); he didnt remember telling me that, but said "well, that was in the middle of everything"...
It is kind of weird that he seems suddenly so much warmer. I can't help but wonder if monster was trying to stir things up again, because that has been the way things have worked before when she was. Don't know....and of course now the weekend is upon us, and we'll see about the paperwork stuff. I do believe his warmth is sincere though, somehow it's "different" than when he's "faking". Again I'm sure that makes no sense, but it is.
S13's best friends parents are divorcing we just found out. S is really shook up and shocked, and hasnt been able to reach his friend by phone (friend changed schools)...so that is really hard for him, and he commented that he imagines his friend is really struggling. I'm sure he is. I saw the dad and the friends 2 sisters in the store just about the weekend before he filed. I keep thinking about those kids. the dad had such a weird look on his face when I talked to him, I'm sure he was about to tell them about it. We'd only known these folks maybe three years, and I always had a sense the mom was hiding something, H did too. I'll bet you anything she was haveing an A. I can just feel it in my bones. sigh. I feel so sorry for the kids.
D and SIL are living at our house, I hope short-term, but they are stuck in a lease with an unscrupulous property management company that is dragging their feet on the paperwork that should have been completed 2 months ago for subleasing, and they cant afford to pay for 2 places on their miniscule starting salaries. I suggested this evening the contact their attorney again, even if it costs them more. The management company actually has a district attorney filing charges against them and some other folks working on a class action suit, so it is not just the kids overreacting. From what they say, the company actually was extorting money from them, saying when they were in the office that something would cost them more money and did they have it with them then, and it was never written into the lease. There is actually a subleaser wanting the place this week who would more than exceed financial qualifications and they are dragging their feet on the paper work, I wonder if they arent afraid to lease to him because he's not a poor struggling kid startiing out and would probably take them to the ground if they pull the stuff on him they seem to. Ok, there's my vent for tonight, for once it's not about h or monster.
It's kind of fun to have the kids back, they sit at the dinner table and laugh at night, and D wanted me to meet her for lunch today...couldnt manage today, but hopefully next week. That's nice. be nicer if they get there own place nearby so the family room isnt piled high with their stuff....soon, hopefully.
i'm sure hoping H is as warm when I get home this evening as he was earlier.
Hey Deb, I hate to be needy but I know that you went through your H going back to OW several times. I was wondering if you would have time to pop over to MLC and view my post from last night. H and I had a conversation. I had to initiate it because S told me about he and H going shopping with OW (thankfully S is only 3 and doesn't understand what that could mean).
I'm staying pretty calm since it's not over until it's over but I could use some thoughts.
I think you should ask for something that includes some time away. Maybe a weekend at a favorite bed and breakfast or something similar. Then you can get a gift for him - a nightie.
I need to update and get your opinions. I keep "pondering" goings on from the weekend, and I am puzzled, don't know what to make of it. really odd. so, here goes, and I'd sure like to know if anybody sees anything here.
You might remember that I lost it because H was talking about needing to do "paperwork" on Saturday. I see in my previous post from Thursday evening that he was really warm and loving when he came by my office, after a couple of weeks of seeming to be withdrawn and cooler IMO. So, when I got home, H was still warm and friendly. We went to bed a teeny bit early, and snuggled up face to face this time. I don't know what I said to him, something along the lines of how much he means to me, and he was quiet for a while. and then he started crying, and said to me in the saddest, most choked voice, "why weren't you like this before?" I had to ask what he meant...and he said "so loving, you sure make me feel special"....uh, can you say "guilt" as in how I felt when he said that???? but I know I wasnt very warm to him, I was so focused on being "wonder woman" that I really took him for granted, plus I was quite peeved at him for taking me for granted, and didnt hesitate to express my resentment. So, anyway, I tried to explain to him this, and he just sounded so sad. Then he asked the strangest question...."how do you know some one is the love of your life?"...(I've told him this before)and I asked for clarification of what he meant. He said I just wonder, I've asked a lot of people this, and I get different answers, but I'm asking you because you are wise" (????????? yeah, right) so I asked "what do people tell you?" and never got much of an answer other than "A (co-worker getting married) just says she'd never felt this way before"...so I had to think hard what that meant to me...I finally came up with the explanation that being with that person brings a sense of peace and contentment and deep fulfillment that never came with anyone else. H thought a while and said "peace and contentment, that makes sense". We both wound up in tears, and fell asleep in each others arms.
Friday morning before I went to work, he initiated ml, and again Friday afternoon (another sexathon, I guess)
Saturday, H did not go to work. Instead, he stayed home, went for a walk, got home MUCH earlier than he said he would, unfortunately I had gone to run errands and was gone several hours after he got home. H actually busied himself doing some work, such as moving furniture in the kids' bedrooms. I thanked him profusely for that. He did comment that he "needed some down time and we needed some time together" so he decided to let work wait. in the afternoon he went to take a nap while I was cleaning, I went into the bedroom and said "oh, that is so tempting, but I need to get this done", and he said "I wish you would come and lay down with me, I need you to hold me" (weird...........usually this came with weeping spells involving monster) In the night Saturday night, I was almost asleep, and he said in the dark "what did you tell me about knowing someone was the love of your life?" I was so asleep I had to think about it for a minute...he said "I've been thinking a lot about it"; again I told him I believed it meant a sense of peace and contentment and fulfillment, and that also with him (I know this was a bad thing to say) I can't visualize what life would be like without him, that with other people I always could (huh, might have something to do with being married for 27 years). Again he said "peace and contentment. that makes sense". Sunday I kind of neglected him, I was so busy getting the bedrooms rearranged, cleaned, and new curtains up, I didnt even fix him a snack in the evening. he did snuggle me in bed, but we both had a really restless night.
This morning he said "I sure love you" before i said it, and gave me a warm hug and kiss. at 9 am I got a short email that started off with the same thing, and was signed "your D"...have had a couple "chatty" ones...then just a bit ago, I got one asking me if I would ice him down a couple of beers when I get home, that he's sure going to need one. In times past, this also meant problems in monster paradise. I'm not sure what to think about all this, trying to not jump to conclusions. Of course, i'm sure you all know what I'm wondering...........
sent a short reply to H, that sure I'd ice him down 2 beers, and then added "RU ok?" havnet heard back....
a few notes to jot....
wow, it was 2 years ago yesterday that I registered here on the bb. 2 years! seems unbelievable.
also, S13 commented this weekend that he always thought his friends mom was having an A...poor kid, I thought that was interesting. his comment was "having had my nose rubbed in it, I can pretty much smell this stuff from a mile away now". he said when he would spend the night, the mom would leave to go to "a friends house" around nine after her h went to sleep, and come back at 1 or 2 am. Dang kids stay up all night and learn how to tell time, and makes it even tougher to hide an A.
Something else I was going to jot down, slips my mind now.
Hi Deb Just wanted to let you know there are ears out here for ya! I'm sorry that you're uneasy and H has hit all the triggers the last few days. Maybe it's just work stress, or nothing.. him contemplating everything to put it behind him once and for all. That's what I'm hoping for you! You've done so much hard work and come so far with your M and continue to give him the best through it all. You have a lot to be proud of, whatever is on your H's mind. Hang in there and know your BB friends are here for you!
Hi Sheila, thanks for stopping by and your encouragment, it's nice to hear from you.
I've been trying all morning to sort my jumbled thoughts enough to post. Still jumbled, so I guess I'll start posting and hope for the best.
Last night was quite interesting, and once again my picking up on the "weird vibes" was accurate. what's even weirder is my mother keeps calling me, at home, at work, asking in this strange little spacey voice how things are going because she keeps thinking of me. I havent had the privacy to ask her whats up, but I'll have to do that. but, I digress.
Back to yesterday. Dont think I posted about it, but I pulled into the parking lot here at work in the AM at the same time as monster. I choose not to be intimidated by her, so I pulled into my regular space, even though she had parked right next to it. Got out of my van, looked right at her, she gave me her cold glaring stare and stomped across the parking lot. interactions by email w/H were posted yesterday.
Fast forward to last night. sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, such mixed emotions about it, and confusion. H was cheerful when he got home, I was in the kitchen and went and greeted him with a hug as he came in, which he returned warmly. chatted a bit, the two of us went upstairs to change...I was sitting on the bed, he was in the adjoining bath taking out his contacts, door was open, we could see each other and were still chatting. suddenly he stops, says "I sure love you", and comes into our room and hugs me. holds me. of course I reciprocate. THEN he starts talking....I'm trying to recall all that was said. Evidently he got an email from monster about 4 pm. It must have been a long one, as nearly as I can piece together. her message was "get a divorce, come back, and I'll ditch A (new bf)....as I understand H said he thought that things were going so well there, and she said the guy has a drinking problem (?????????), and that H "is the Sun, all other men are just matches" (yes, that loud retching sound is me puking)....It comes out in conversation that the info H has been sharing about her, that he said came from the other nurse, was from her, that she is the one emailing him that she's going with this guy over thanksgiving, that she didnt go, etc.. I havent mentioned it, but this always sounded suspicious to me, there is just no reason for the other nurse to be talking about this with H...so it always roused a note of suspicion in me.
H says he told her he is not interested, that her "come ons" are phoney, and to leave him and his family alone, that he doesnt want to hear from her. and to quit bugging me. Same song, 3rd verse.
I said "I told you so" (I know, not cool), that she was still after him, that I had known it because if she was really "done", and moving on with this other guy, there would be no reason to be sharing the info about that R with H. That far from being "done" moving on, she is using the other guy and talking about him to H to try to get H jealous to come back to her.
I told H that as long as he has any contact at all, responds to her at all, that she is going to take it as encouragment/interest on his part and she will never give up. He said that he always trys to be pleasant with everyone, I told him I know that, but that in her eyes that is moving back towards her since he has already told her before "no contact". H agreed that "maybe you're right"....
H swears there has been only casual discussion tacked onto work related emails. I asked what would have stirred her up again then, he said he didnt know, he imagines something about christmas. Told him I figured she would be doing something around christmas, as she always does. H said she might have found the ornament with their names on it she bought 2 years ago on their trip. ah, gee, I wonder why things are so easily triggered for me lately?
the evening was cheerful, we had supper with the kids, h worked out, i read a bit. I went to bed a bit early, being tired from tossing and turning the night before, intended to read, but found myself suddenly becoming anxious and upset, because i had thought H would be coming up early also. I resisted the urge to go downstairs looking for him, stifled my tears, kept telling my self to drop the rope and focus on "what if"...when H came up, it was actually about the usual time, but it just seemed forever because I'd expected him earlier and of course my mind was thinking he was downstairs on the phone or computer with her. I didnt say a word about it, but I must have looked pretty down, because when he got in bed he told me to "quit moping, there is nothing to it"...I told him I needed him to hold me...which he did and started talking. lets see, if I can remember the gist of the convo. hmmmmm, said that he loves me and doesnt want her. that he has what he always wanted at home with me, so why would he want to be with her? That he has always loved me, from the first, but that "you were mean to me for years" ( still don't get that, and take exception to it, but obviously that is either his perception or a justification that he's not ready to give up), and then you opened up to me, and everything changed. I had been going to go with her, and then everything changed. you were always kind and loving and patient and giving, and she was demanding and rude and cold and pushy. The contrast was so stark that it was impossible to miss. and it just got more and more evident. it was always all about her and what I could do for her. The last time I was there, I kept thinking she has nothing, absolutely nothing, that I want. You are the Love of my life, always have been" That what he wants is here at home with me. he talked about what a hateful thing it is for her to always be instigating this at christmas, how that would absolutely destroy our kids.
he held me for a long time, we ml, then he held me some more, we fell asleep again in each others arms, that is so nice.
This morning, we were talking again, about her flowery words...he was actually laughing about them. I told him I've been trying to learn to be more expressive, but that i will never be like that. he said it is all fake from her, that she says the same stuff to every guy; said "you may not give me credit for it but I can see through it"....
at one point last night, I commented that she'd obviously had a lot more experience with men, sexually and otherwise, than I had, and H agreed. I commented that I'd always thought sex ought to mean something....h said for her it is as casual as shaking hands...commented "she really is just a w---e."
got this email from H at 9:40:
Quote: Hey LOML how’s the day going? So far it’s okay for me, actually monster is in a corner a mile away and never ventures into the hall way so it’s really nice, like she isn’t even here! Well, I need to go. I love you D
I sent him a mush one back, havent heard from him....
So, I'm reeling with all kinds of mixed emotions. not sure what to think. I have KNOWN something was was up, I can't explain it, just "vibes" with H's withdrawal for the last month or so, accusing me of being clingy, saying he's going to work on weekends, (then not), his questions about how do you know some one is the love of your life....I KNEW she was using the other guy to try to make H jealous. I even commented to H this morning that she thinks she is so smart, and she is actually incredibly predictable. h agreed.
I guess what upsets me is that there's obviously been more contact than H has been upfront about. siiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhh. Will he ever get it through his head that he must have no contact and MAKE IT STICK????????
I kept pondering last night while I was waiting for him to come to bed if this is the time I need give him an ultimatum about the contact. But, I know that H responds really really negatively to what her perceives as anyone telling him what to do (he even commented last night about that was how she really sealed the coffin on their R), and I'm afraid it would undo a lot of the work I've accomplished so far. In other words, move me back from my goal instead of get me closer to it. As frustrated as I am, and as much as I want to choke him, dope slap him and read him the riot act, my more rational brain tells me the best way to proceed is to suck up STILL more patience, be still, and focus on the "good stuff" between us, and build on that.
