Do you know how MWD has us make a list of goals and then goes over the list in the book by showing us how we might not be listing things like we should? Well... I see two huge themes in your list - Fear and a lack of trust. In fact, most of your items are based in a fear of this or that. Is fear really a good reason either not to, or to do something? We are all afraid of this or that but I don't think that fear should stop us from trying. Think of all of the things that you have done that you would not have if you would have let fear hold you back. On top of that, I think if you try, you can find more reasons to work and give it another chance. Part of me wonders if this was not a self fullfilling list in that you went into it thinking you'd have more cons than pros and of course that's how it came out. And if we are going to list fears, should not the fear of giving up on something that might actually have worked be in there?
So, I think you need to take a second look at this and really limit the fear issues or just list it once as all inclusive - FEAR. Yes you have fear but should that stop you?
Keep at it. I'm sure version two will be clearer for you.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Self-fulfilling? No. I don't feel that it was at all. I sat here for an hour while making out that list, and I went to work on the "TO TRY's" first....I sat here...just sat here...trying to think of every possible POSITIVE reason for why I should give H another shot. This part took me a good 45 minutes...that is TOO long...45 minutes, and I was only able to come up with 3 reasons....The "NOT TO TRY's" only took me less than 10 minutes, and once I got going on them, they were just flowing.
Please don't tell me that I didn't try very hard or not hard enough because I DID. I AM pro-M...why the he** would I have come here in the first place if I wasn't?...but MY M is just a BAD one, and I SERIOUSLY do not believe it could ever be better. I do not believe that H wants to try because he doesn't want to lose me or because he loves me or because he thinks a D is a mistake. I believe it's the money issue. In another convo yesterday, he repeatedly brought it up...how he can't afford to support the boys and me while living with (mf)...oh, and especially because he is unemployed at the moment, too. I don't feel nor do I believe that H wants to genuinely work on the M for the right reasons.
Fears? Ok, I'd have to change them to just one huge fear, and that would be the overall fear of opening up my heart to H again...but you know what? I DO NOT believe that I can. When he's around me...even if we're just on the phone...I get this "cold" feeling inside of me. I feel nothing for him. Even when he sits here in front of me and cries. Yes, I cry, too, sometimes...but that's because I'm feeling my pain, not his. My pain...the pain of remembering all the sh*t he has done and said to me...all the times he's said he is truly sorry...all the promises he made to never do or say them again. Everytime that man cries and says he's really sorry, I feel nothing for him because I just don't believe him.
You know...you only get what you give...and I have nothing to give to H anymore. He had too many second, third, fourth, umpteenth chances...and he blew every single one of them.
He tells me that I will not regret giving him this chance...I DO NOT BELIEVE HIM. I believe I will regret it the very second he "knocks" me down again...and that will happen. I just know it will. I know he's only human, we all make mistakes, and I know he'll backslide, but I'm not willing to subject myself to any further emotional and verbal abuse by this man.
I've had enough...12 years is definitely more than enough. It's a shame I wasn't strong enough to see it back then when it all first started, but I am now.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
In reading your lists, I was surprised to see that one of your "reasons to stay" was not because you still love your husband... Perhaps the fact that it did not come up, shows that you are moving on? (just a thought)... Just wanted you to know I am thinking of you... Hang in there, JV... Your friend, -Kim
Perhaps then H has to earn back your trust and show you what is going to be different and show you that you won't regret it rather than tell you. Talk is cheap. He needs to show the changes. I do feel bad in continuing to come at you with these things - espeically when I clearly do not have all of the details and am not living your life. In the end, you have to decide and people like me can only challange and support you. I do see you saying and feeling so many of the things of the WAW at this point though. How you feel nothing for him, how you can't trust, how you have tried and tried. It is straight from the WAW play book. I say that not that you are "playing" at all mind you just that the lines are so classic. Perhaps time will really tell in this case. It may be a short period of time until H proves you right. Maybe all I can suggest at this point is that you at least leave the door open. I am just so very sure that if I took out your name and references and posted your comments on the board under someone else's name that so many of our readers here would say "yep, she is a classic WAW" The things is - you are not. You are better than that. I think that is why you are struggling. I hope whatever happens that it comes after a lot of hard work and after leaving no stone unturned. I hope that if you do end it that you can say that you really did try everything and that you did earn your way out of this M. Anything less and you are just letting your self down. I truly hope you are still taking my harsh challanges in the productive way that I truly do mean them.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Your H is so obviously confused and has been for a very long time and you know that. I read your list and from what I see most of your reasons not to try are all based on the fact that you do not trust your H in any aspect of his life. I have followed your sitch from the beginning and the your lack of trust is with very good reason. Why do you have to agree to give him and the M another chance with just his words? We all know that actions speak louder than words...(DB tells us that too) your H is full of words (very contradicting words) let him show you that he wants to make it right before agreeing to give the M another chance. IMHO, your H needs to work on himself (his bulimia, anger, low self-esteem) before you can work on your M.
If he can show you (by your standards, not his) that he can and will change and you decide you will give the M one more chance than you will need to let go of the past and start with a "beginners mind!"
When my H came home I "knew" that it was just for the kids and $$ reasons...the bottom line is he would not be here if he didn't really want to be...I think that will hold true in your sitch if your H decides to get counseling.
Be strong and set some boundaries. Whether your M works out or not you are and will be an inspiration to many people struggling to save themselves and their M.
Thanks for the hugs, (((((Kim)))))...I noticed, too, that I didn't mention anything about whether or not I still love H...but I think I did when I wrote down that I feel I have completely detached. I care for him, but I do not love him...I know that love is not a feeling; it is a decision...and right now, it is a decision that I just can't make.
Don,...yes I am struggling...I was originally the LBS, and now I've turned into the WAW....I AM feeling very conflicted inside...I'd like to believe H, but I just can't...H keeps saying this and that, but I don't see it. I've even told him that I need to see he really means what he's saying in his actions...I've told him about spending more time together..."dating" me again, showering me with attention like he used to, making me feel like his princess again...but still, nothing has happened. He said, "What if I can't do that? You want romance and stuff. I'm not saying I won't, but what if I can't? What if I don't feel that way anymore?"
I would love to have those feelings back...feeling special, feeling treasured, feeling wanted, desired, loved...NOT feeling like a financial burden, a responsibility, or anything else that's negative....and I don't even think I want to feel special to H....I feel that in time, when I am ready for it, I want to feel all of those good feelings...but with someone else.
Unsure, I totally agree with you...Why should I try just because H says it will be better? Why should I be expected to take his word for it?...that's the way H comes off to me...that I should believe him just because he's saying so...that I should trust him because he means it THIS time.
I've been thinking...it's all I ever do ...that I'll agree to MC. This will at least get H into going, and we all know he DOES NEED IT....but is it right for me to go, too, if I don't even know for sure that I want to work things out? Don't I have to want it?...because I don't feel that I do want this.
Boundaries...well, I ABSOLUTELY will NOT tolerate the verbal abuse anymore . IF I decide to try and really work on this, any and all verbal, mental, and/or emotional abuse is a DEFINITE deal breaker! The very second he utters anything like that again, THAT WILL BE IT. I WILL BE DONE.
Thanks again to ((((every one of you))))....I am struggling inside...very much...it's difficult to describe...I feel that I'm struggling with my mind and not my heart. My heart doesn't ache anymore...only my head....I'm just really confused.
Ok, time for lunch . Thanks for listening.
Valerie (I had to change it -- finally!)
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Last edited by ValerieA; 10/17/0506:28 PM.
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
After picking the kids up from school today, this song played on the radio. I think it's about 7 years old, but I remember it so well...and it just has my name written all over it.
"Barely Breathing" by Duncan Sheik
I know what you're doing I see it all too clear I only taste the saline When I kiss away your tears You really had me going Wishing on a star The black holes that surround you Are heavier by far
I believed in your confusion You were so completely torn It must have been that yesterday Was the day that I was born There's not much to examine Nothing left to hide You really can't be serious if you have to ask me why I say goodbye
Cause I am barely breathing And I can't find the air Don't know who I'm kidding Imagining you care And I could stand here waiting A fool for another day I don't suppose it's worth the price, it's worth the price The price that I would pay
Everyone keeps asking What's it all about? Used to be so certain Now I can't figure out What is this attraction? I only feel the pain Nothing left to reason And only you to blame Will it ever change?
Cause I am barely breathing And I can't find the air Don't know who I'm kidding Imagining you care And I could stand here waiting A fool for another day I don't suppose it's worth the price, it's worth the price The price that I would pay... But I'm thinking it over anyway I'm thinking it over anyway
I've come to find I may never know Your changing mind Is it friend or foe? I rise above And sink below Every time You come and go... Please don't come and go
Cause I am barely breathing And I can't find the air Don't know who I'm kidding Imagining you care And I could stand here waiting A fool for another day I don't suppose it's worth the price, it's worth the price The price that I would pay... But I'm thinking it over anyway I'm thinking it over anyway
I know what you're doing I see it all too clear
Ok, obviously I have too much free time if I'm able to sit here and type out the whole song !...but I thought it really hit home (except for the part about "only you to blame" -- the R's downfall is on both of us). I remember hearing it after having a nasty fight with H long ago.....and here I am now...years later...still feeling like I'd be a fool to give H another chance....still feeling and seeing his phony tears....maybe they're real for him, but they're not for me...and I'm STILL thinking it over again.
What's that saying?..."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME."...I'm waaaayyyyy past twice.
Thanks for listening.
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
H stopped by yesterday afternoon...I'm not exactly sure for what, but he said he needed something from the garage. Anyway, we chit-chatted a bit, and before he left, I asked him if he had found a MC yet. He said, "No, I've been busy all day. I had to go do ABC and XYZ, then....I'm sorry. I just didn't have the time." I said ok and that I was only asking.
H called me this morning to tell me about a job opportunity he might have with a former co-worker. It's the same thing he was doing before...working home and garden shows, selling and installing satellite dish systems....which means more travelling...more being out on the road...less time with the family again.
I know it's a job, and it will pay the bills.....but the M cannot be worked out if he's still going to be away from us.
Anyway, he also told me about his upcoming tests today in his class. Lots of mathematical computations and chemistry stuff...it sounds very hard ...so I told him good luck, and I knew he would do well. I almost wanted to ask again if he looked into MC this morning (I'm certain he had the time), but I didn't. I guess I didn't want to feel the disappointment again of H not following through with turning his WORDS into ACTIONS. I want to SEE that he's serious about MC, but I think he's waiting to hear me say that I will give him another try....I'm not prepared to do that. I want to see that he means what he says. In fact, I remember asking him about MC (if he had looked into it) on Sunday night when he came to drop off the kids. He said, "I was hoping you could help me out with that. I thought maybe you'd know where to look for one." I told him, "All you need to do is pick up the phone book, H. It's that simple...but make sure they are a MC. Not just an ordinary one." He didn't say anything.
So it's Tuesday now, and I'm sure he didn't bother looking this morning...and I'm sure he wasn't busy either. I'm not going to do it for him. I already told him to his face that if he wants me to even think about trying again, he WILL HAVE to go to MC....I just wonder how long it will be until he makes the call...if he ever does .
Thanks for listening.
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
.
...that I'll agree to MC. This will at least get H into going, and we all know he DOES NEED IT....but is it right for me to go, too, if I don't even know for sure that I want to work things out? Don't I have to want it?...because I don't feel that I do want this.
. IF I decide to try and really work on this, any and all verbal, mental, and/or emotional abuse is a DEFINITE deal breaker! The very second he utters anything like that again, THAT WILL BE IT. I WILL BE DONE.
-- finally!)
