I know what you mean when you talk of going through the motions and being only half awake...don't beat yourself up about that, it happens. We are probably all guilty of that at some time or another. Thank your lucky stars that you were awakened and realise what the problem was and are working on it rather than doing what many people do in today's society and just moving on...still only half awake / aware to your next R. The difficult thing is to stick it out. Your H does sound like he is tryingto make things better. It may not be in the way you would like him to but he is trying- you've said that yourself.
In one respect it is a human instinct to be wary of people that have hurt us in the past. Self preservation and all that. But just think of it like this..he did the one thing he promised he wouldn't - he lied. It hurt like hell but you survived, you got through it, you lived to tell the tale and grow from it. If he does it again....well, I don't doubt you will survive that too. I doubt it will come as such a shock but you'll get through it.
You're doing good. You are such a brave person for sticking with it. I wish I had a fraction of your strength.
Quote: I know we all lie, little white lies, some whopping ommisions, sometimes because it is easier. But this is the person who promised never to lie to me. So how deep is his love? Am I taking a risk that there will be other promises he will break? The fact that he will not sit down, and talk through what the affair means to him, now with hindsight, the fact that he still seems to want to just brush the whole 12 months under the rug, makes me very nervous that there is still work to be done here, and I can only do so much by myself.
Slowly
Don't allow him to make promises if it makes you worry he will break them. Just accept as much from him as is comfortable to you. Promises are just words anyway My H used to say ILY all the time. It used to bug the hell out of me as I didn't *feeel* loved so I banned him from saying ILY. The odd thing is I feel more loved now that he isn't saying it than I did when he was!!! It forced him to show how he feels as he can't just use words. If you don't allow your H to make promises he can't break them. Make him promise you give him power ...why would you want to do that? He'll do what he wants anyway! (They always do)
Why stress about his reluctance to talk about the A? Who is it hurting? YOU! You don't deserve that. You won't get the absolute truth even if he does tell you. You will get his version of events, they are unlikely to be acurate. Why not just make up your own scenario , imagine it to have been a sad and unppy time for him etc. It will make you feel good and be good to be around. It is so esy to pick up 'vibes' from people. H probably senses that you are stressed about this and is thinking if he tells you things will get worse...act as if you don't care. Don't waste another moment of your time thinking about this old troll. She just aint worth it.
Quote: I see myself hugging a constant reminder of an awakening, an experience that I am still trying to work through. If I let go of the 'compelling event' i.e. being lied to, then my future growth will have to be based on my own motivations, not an external trigger of being lied to by someone I had put way too much trust in.
This is an interesting and actually pretty positive way of using the "event" -- iow, viewing it as a reminder for growth and awakening or for continuing work, well, if it's truly spread with a positive-only approach. But that's hard to do, right? Even when we most tenaciously cling to the "event as awakening" motto, it's hard to get away from the "oh, and btw, you did this to ME", right? IOW, it still gets overloaded with not only the "here's my springboard and reminder to myself to pay attention" but also the "and don't forget this was your doing". (I'm totally speaking of myself here so don't take this as a judgement).
I also know for me that while "remembering" provides impetus to continue growing, it also feels like a "safety net" to me (falsely) a la "if I remember what you did then I'll never be caught off guard again". It's a toughie because you don't want to lose the "lesson" but at the same time, there IS no safety net with remembering. No safety net at all, fortunately or unfortunately.
Quote: Am I taking a risk that there will be other promises he will break?
Well, yes indeed you are.
Quote: The fact that he will not sit down, and talk through what the affair means to him, now with hindsight, the fact that he still seems to want to just brush the whole 12 months under the rug, makes me very nervous that there is still work to be done here, and I can only do so much by myself.
Well you KNOW I can relate to this...3 years later we haven't had the big "sit down" though even now, I get bits and pieces from h (sporadically, interspersed with other stuff). It would be my model to strip clean, rake over the coals, peer at and thoroughly examine what happened, why, how to keep it from happening again, etc, but for my h, his review is internal, quiet, maybe less overt than I would like to be sure but still there. And, yah, I think it takes weeks when for me it would take hours but that's how he's wired.
I know how hard it is to give up the dream of "the talk" and I wouldn't encourage you to abandon it entirely but to focus maybe instead on smaller signs of life...you know?
I can't recall who it was that posted it but the "what WOULD it say if it happened again...nothing about you, all about him" is something I hold onto frequently....my own way of stating it (in reminding myself) is that I am truly not in control of nor responsible for h's fidelity...not now, not ever. It's not always instantly comforting but upon reflection, it can be liberating.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Your input around here is sorely missed! I know you're expecting, though, and hope you're progressing well and in a healthy manner. Congrats!
As usual, you hit the nail dead center. I also think this is fair to apply to everyone we meet--not just spouses. I cringe to think that those I've hurt are just lurking in the shadows waiting for me to screw them over again... so they can say, "See, she's hurt me again! How could she do this to me?"
If I screw up and hurt them again, does it mean that they are the fool? Absolutely not. I am... for I'm the one who chose to engage in a behavior with an unfortunate circumstance.
I really like the ideas Martha started... why do we continue to hold on to unpleasant memories? A memory is a snapshot of what happened in the past. Nothing more. So why do we choose to keep taking out that one miserable photograph when there are literally thousands of terrific ones that really tell more of the story?
Slowly, please know I'm not singling you out. We're all guilty of holding on to this part of our story. It's why I recommended Debbie Ford's book on The Secret of the Shadow awhile back. Considering ourselves as victims isn't very empowering...
There's that saying in DB/DR that Sage used to wield around this place way back when: WHAT WE FOCUS ON EXPANDS. I must say that I believe it's 100% true. If it weren't, we wouldn't keep pulling out that crappy photograph and choose to believe that it tells everything about our story. That's fully a choice...
Slowly, I don't know about you, but the kazillion photo albums I have display pictures that capture all the happy moments in my life--with people I've met, liked and loved along the way. Even some people who are not in my life anymore. But I still look at them and remember the fact that I was loved. I still am loved. Why would I want to keep pulling that picture out when it really doesn't capture anything worth keeping? Perhaps it's time for all of us to purge those mental photos that continue to bring us suffering and suck the joy right out of the present.
They no longer serve a purpose!
Slowly, if you had to write your epitaph, what would you want it to say?
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Guys, you are the best. I feel uplifted from the very deep slump I was in just an hour ago.
Its been a very difficult day, with two extremely irate clients who just would not agree to any of the recovery proposals we were putting before them. Most of the time my job is fabulous, but every now and then, I am stuck with cleaning up rubbish, and I feel after 4 years of doing this I want something better. The past 2 times I seriously thought of packing my job in, I 'allowed' NG to persuade me to stay on. He is on the same track again, putting many obstacles on the way, so that I lose some of my courage to quit. Part of my angst about the R with NG is a reflection of feeling trapped in my job, I'm sure. This funk will be fixed only when I am able to handle my job situation with a firm view of what is good for me, I reckon
Slowly, if you had to write your epitaph, what would you want it to say?
Bets - what a fabulous notion to focus on! And yes, my perspective here has changed dramatically since dbing - it used to be 'she was NG's wife and made him happy' - yuck - I really saw myself as a reflection, no, I let myself be defined by the relationship I was in. Therein lies the problem - my self esteem was so low that I could not define myself in any other way - or chose not to. These days, I'm happy with 'she brought joy' which suits me much better Which means I should likewise focus on the joy that others bring to me, right?
It's why I recommended Debbie Ford's book on The Secret of the Shadow awhile back
I know what my Xmas reading is going to be - 'tis on order
3 years later we haven't had the big "sit down" though even now, I get bits and pieces from h (sporadically, interspersed with other stuff). It would be my model to strip clean, rake over the coals, peer at and thoroughly examine what happened, why, how to keep it from happening again, etc, but for my h, his review is internal, quiet, maybe less overt than I would like to be sure but still there. And, yah, I think it takes weeks when for me it would take hours but that's how he's wired.
Sage, this is SUCH a big part of my struggle, and kudos to you for managing to live with it. Like you, I get bits and pieces buried in everything else. Honestly, 99% of the time I'm more than fine. Its when something (like not being supported to leave a crappy job) triggers the frustrations that the old bad stuff comes out. How do I just throw away the bad photos?
The odd thing is I feel more loved now that he isn't saying it than I did when he was!!! It forced him to show how he feels as he can't just use words.
Pink, its the same here too! In fact, assignment to self, make a list of the positives, and what is better than before, because there are so many! I need to focus on what is working, as so many of you have gently pointed out
I choose to be Happy (rather than be Right).Make sense?
Martha - this makes sooo much sense, and I will keep remembering this. The next few days will be trying, I still have to close these wayward projects, and the thought that this could be the last time I have to go on this cleaning trip keeps me going. I will no longer discuss my job options with NG, because for whatever reason, he is determined that I will stay with this company. Can I say I feel unvalidated? But I will focus on the things that are working for us, which thankfully are many.
Since we're talking business here to some degree, and tools/skills that work both in business and in our personal lives, I would encourage you to check out something (and the book) call "FISH!". It's a story of the World Famous Seattle Fishmarket, and how they became and maintain being world famous.
It's a business approach, but it sure works in our personal lives too. It's a theory that pushes 4 principles:
Be there.
Make their day.
Play.
Choose your attitude.
May be helpful on both fronts. I've found it useful and reinforcing for DR principles.
Hiya Martha - I remember FISH - must dig it up for a much needed revision, thanks for the tip. These 4 principles are well worth remembering every day.
Well, we got home late last night, have plans for a lazy weekend, relaxing and just hanging out. Maybe catch a movie. In the meantime, I have started reviewing my threads over the past 12 months. I'm not quite ready to go back all the way to the begining, for fear it may stir up unwanted memories. These past 12 months at least have been about healing, I think. Plus its time to polish up what I want to shoot for in 2006. I see a new job on the horizon, and it may well mark new beginings in other aspects too.
Back in November 2004, I resorted to taking each day as it comes, no expectations, little by way of planning, just making the most of each day. Seems to have carried me through.
NG comes to the same conclusions as I do about our challenges. I note that sometimes we approach things at a different pace, and in a different style. I must remember that results matter, not how we each get to these results. There is room for difference.
My honest assessment is that I'm still a conscious-competent in this space. I have to keep reminding myself that NG does not process things the way I do, and sometimes takes action before I have even realised what is happening, I just need to go with the flow. Or if I'm ready to make a move and he is still pondering, that should be OK too. Time and space are good things in a relationship, especially one as ours, where we spend no more than 20 hours a week not in each others' company, on average - we both get to work from home a lot
And now I must get back to my Saturday. Wishing everyone a fabulous weekend.
Oh my ... altho on the one hand, I don't wish to see anyone still active on this bb ... on the other, its good to see a familar "face" in the crowd.
Quote: In his own way, he is going out of his way to show love. I don't think I will ever be completely settled, thoughts of his betrayal still intrude, and in many ways it was not as much the realtionship with ow, but the lies that still bother me. They don't cloud my days, but they are just there, you know.
I do know ... its still a portion of our defense mechanism that hasn't a shutoff ... that little voice in our head that saying "WAS hurt me once, they can hurt me again." While now we have made a conscientious effort to block out the second part knowing that its not likely to come about, the first part keeps going off.
"WAS hurt me once ... WAS hurt me once ... WAS hurt me once ..."
... but as Martha pointed out, I think the key is in understanding those actions taken that hurt us were from an altered attitude based on the series of events that led up them finally making a choice to change their attitude that led them astray.
Perhaps in time to settle what bothers you ( & myself) is to, daily, follow them with the reminder that the foundation for that attitude no longer exists, elimanting any chance of being hurt the same way again. Now its time for us to put in the daily effort to change our attitude about what they did to us and hopefully in time our new attitude will become comfortable enough to seem like second nature and then maybe that voice in our heads will fade away.
My H used to say ILY all the time. It used to bug the hell out of me as I didn't *feeel* loved so I banned him from saying ILY. 
The odd thing is I feel more loved now that he isn't saying it than I did when he was!!! It forced him to show how he feels as he can't just use words. If you don't allow your H to make promises he can't break them. Make him promise you give him power ...why would you want to do that? He'll do what he wants anyway! (They always do)
Betsey 
Slowly