Looking backward...but only to move forward THREE

[sage]

Hi everyone, thanks for the visits! Ellie, I'll definitely check out the books. Sun ! 2much, I'll stop by!

I left work early yesterday for an acupuncture appt. Got home and hung out for a while before going to meet h. I got to the restaurant a bit early and sat at the bar and had a drink. when h came in he was over the top with how good I looked! Said I had a "glow" about me What a nice guy!

We had a good meal and talked a bunch and then went home. We were lazy this AM so no gym but we are finally (!!!) going to be able to hike again this weekend (after a LONG winter!).

I've been struggling a bit with feeling like a "bottomless pit" -- too much going on with work, the job interviewing, school, etc. I mentioned it to h last night and he gave me a big squeeze. This noontime when I pulled my lunch out of my bag I noticed that he had drawn a heart on the box (a frozen dinner). Then he just called and talked a little to me on the phone (which never happens!). Jeez, there's no question the guy is working hard to fill up my love tank! Once again, I realize how darned lucky I am.

No news on the job. They called at least one of my references last night. As I mentioned to h just now, even if I don't get it, I feel as though I've learned a lot from the process that will help me in my search.

Sage

[JinBklyn]

Sage, it's just absolutely crazy positive over here! Careful you don't get too nuts - you might have to be stopped!

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. I miss both of mine terribly.

Jennifer

[sage]

Jennifer -- thanks for the visit!

I'm leaving work early today -- it's opening day for our beloved Red Sox!

Had an excellent weekend. We went to a movie Friday night ("Walk on Water) then out for pizza. Saturday we kicked off hiking season with a nearly 2 hour hike! It was awesome -- totally kicked my butt, though! I can't remember what else we did that day -- I think I reviewed the taxes and some other computer related stuff. Then we went to see another movie "The Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill" (I highly recommend!) and out for Indian food.

Sunday we went to the gym, went to breakfast and then ran some errands. I gardened while h did some homework and then relaxed. I got a lot done but have so much more to do! Ah, well, babysteps!

We had a relaxing night...watched the tail end of the Masters, hung around a bit, grabbed a quick bite. h made an absolutely delightful toast to me that covered the gamut of compliments!

All good stuff.

Now...I have an opportunity to do "something different" in regards to a current thingy (I'm hesistant to call it "an issue") in my M...I know I've mentioned that h has FFs at school...one of them seems to be more consistently mentioned than the others. I'd be lying if I said that I haven't struggled with that of late...my heart gives a little involuntary clenching when he mentions her and I've seen myself lapse into some "same old" behaviors of late...(feeling really insecure, wanting to pry, playing out old tapes in my head, etc).

To be clear...I'M NOT suggesting that there's anything going on -- not at ALL. I'm just having a hard time with feelings of jealousy and insecurity and for the last couple of weeks I've been mentally pretty irked -- a la "WHY does he have to develop these friendships" and "WHY can't he see how detrimental this is to US", etc. Lots of self-righteous thinking.

I've really been struggling inside trying to deal...thinking "should I bring this up" (well, that tends to lead to "you don't trust me" responses), should I just sit and stew (which tends to lead to resentment on my part!). I think the best approach is to really learn how to deal...to use this as a springboard for addressing my jealousy and my desire for control and my insecurity. I can't keep focusing on stuff that I can't control and I can't keep conveying to h that I'm insecure and untrusting. The last couple of weeks have been so hard...I feel myself getting clingy and all that. I don't like it. And I don't think it gets me what I want -- honesty and openness from h.

To h's credit (!!! ) HE has been doing "something different" in regards to this...he's been mentioning her (very openly! very upfront) and doing great holding onto himself regardless of how I react (hooray for his trust in me!) AND he's also been very careful to reassure me pretty quickly afterwards -- not reassurance like "you have nothing to worry about in re. to FF" but reassurance in regards to directly telling me how much he loves me, etc. It's like he senses my insecurity and is trying to combat it. Also, he's been pretty open about emailing in front of me and telling me about it (that was the issue Sat. he prepped his next semester schedule and then I noted that he was emailing it to her...but he mentioned it to me later.) He continues to be really loving and earnest and totally romantic. Quite wonderful.

Anyway, again, I'm not saying there's anything untoward going on...it's more about him having a FF and my freaked out response to that.

Here's my cainercast for the day:

"To err is human. To forgive is divine." Note, please, that nowhere in
this old saying is there any mention of the need to forget. Most
people achieve the ability to offer forgiveness by wiping their
memories clean. They decide not to dwell on the behaviour that has
upset them, lest it prevents them from being tolerant. You must not
forget a past experience. At the same, though, you have to find a way
to move on from it and let it go.

I like it...sounds appropriate!

I'm not exactly sure what my "goals" and "actions" will be. To be continued!
Sage

[kml]

Sage -
I think you already know my take on this. In my opinion, it is simply inappropriate for a spouse to have a friendship with a member of the opposite sex that does not include the other spouse. I've finally figured out, this is that old "near occasion of sin" the nuns were always telling us to avoid.

That doesn't mean I don't think my H should have women friends - he's a very friendly guy, and gets along well with women. But now he is very careful to include me in all his friendships - introduces me (in a loving way that makes it clear I am his adored wife), invites me along, refuses things like solo lunch invitations, etc.

I don't think it is unreasonable, and more importantly, neither does my H. He finally understands the danger inherent in those casual relationships, and goes out of his way to avoid any situation in which that could occur.

So maybe you could just have a discussion with your h, about how you would feel much better about his female friendships if you were included.

Ellie

[Livnlearn]

For the ten years up until just before the bomb, I trusted my H completely.

There was one (attractive) friend that he used to flirt with a lot, in front of me, when we together at occasions with lots of other people. I once or twice questioned him about it, and he alwasy said, how ridiculous, it is just a little harmlees flirting. I gave H the benefit of the doubt, although I would have preferred he not flirt.

Of course both his OW started out with the flirting stuff, which then moved on to me being excluded as well.

And anyway, in restrospect, I think that -

1) *I* would not have felt comfortable flirting with common friends with him there

2) Did he not get that I didn't feel comfortable with him flirting? Did my feelings have nothing to do with how he might choose to behave?

I never did test whether he would have been equally sanguine about ME flirting with OUR male friends. I rather suspect not, if the famous double standard is anything to go by.

Livnlearn

[minnie1]

Good morning Sage!

I have composing an email to you for the past hour (getting interrupted)! I can see from your post, though, that you covered all the things I was asking you about in the email.

I love that you are going to Opening Day today! Have Fun!

...and...your weekend sounds WONDERFUL! I'm glad to see that you (as we all knew you would) will you "do something different" with regards to H's ff.

...and....your H continues to show you how loving, supportive and understanding he is of you and your concerns and continues to share and be open...as you say, all good stuff!

Have a great time today!
Minnie

[sage]

Hey Ellie,

Sage -
I think you already know my take on this. In my opinion, it is simply inappropriate for a spouse to have a friendship with a member of the opposite sex that does not include the other spouse. I've finally figured out, this is that old "near occasion of sin" the nuns were always telling us to avoid.

That doesn't mean I don't think my H should have women friends - he's a very friendly guy, and gets along well with women. But now he is very careful to include me in all his friendships - introduces me (in a loving way that makes it clear I am his adored wife), invites me along, refuses things like solo lunch invitations, etc.

No doubt you know that I'm not in favor of the solo friendship either...in this case, I don't think there's any specific effort on h's part to keep ff "solo"...their face to face contact is limited to school stuff and I'm rarely (if ever) there. He had made mention at one time about socializing with ff and her h and he's been very open to discussing her with me...so, I think he's doing his best to include me.

I don't think it is unreasonable, and more importantly, neither does my H. He finally understands the danger inherent in those casual relationships, and goes out of his way to avoid any situation in which that could occur.

So maybe you could just have a discussion with your h, about how you would feel much better about his female friendships if you were included.

I may ask in the near future about getting together with her and I absolutely hear your point but TBH, having that conversation with h would smack of control to him. For better or worse, I need to have the conversation in little doses and combine it liberally with action (positive, that is!) on my part.

TBH, my original post was sort of less about ff and more about how I've been reacting to h. Here's the dynamic I'm trying to change:

1. h mentions ff (any of them!) either with or without mentioning mf's

2. sage's heart clenches, her stomach drops, she revisits days gone by. She gets quiet, and pulls back a bit from h -- physically and emotionally

3. h appears confused and wonders if he shouldn't talk anymore about ffs.

4. Sage realizes that she's reacted in such a way to close off communication and tries to rally.

5. everyone feels bad

I'm not sure if this makes sense. Let me assure you that I am a work in progress, here!

Sage

[minnie1]

Good morning Sage,

TBH, my original post was sort of less about ff and more about how I've been reacting to h. Here's the dynamic I'm trying to change:

1. h mentions ff (any of them!) either with or without mentioning mf's

2. sage's heart clenches, her stomach drops, she revisits days gone by. She gets quiet, and pulls back a bit from h -- physically and emotionally

3. h appears confused and wonders if he shouldn't talk anymore about ffs.

4. Sage realizes that she's reacted in such a way to close off communication and tries to rally.

5. everyone feels bad

I'm not sure if this makes sense. Let me assure you that I am a work in progress, here!

This makes perfect sense in my mind Sage. I do the above (0ften! and usually about other kind of stuff) and it's never a good outcome for anybody.

their face to face contact is limited to school stuff and I'm rarely (if ever) there. He had made mention at one time about socializing with ff and her h and he's been very open to discussing her with me...so, I think he's doing his best to include me.

I, too, believe that H is doing his very best to include you, to be open and honest.....and I also believe that this is just someone that he knows at school and talks with about school stuff....I have a couple of mf here at work (using the word "friend" lightly...which is what many of us do in a work/school setting) and I can assure you and H that there is nothing going on.

I don't know...perhaps I'm still too naive but I don't see anything wrong with it...considering how open and honest he seems to be with you.

Minnie

[amy7071]

Hi

First my H put down the OW at work - called her very self centered, ect - then he stopped talking about her all together and I got the ILYBNILWY speech.

Since we've gotten back together - around nov 2004 - he's mentioned her once to me. She's working somewhere else now but I think she still brings her pets to him (he's a vet). When he did mention her - I withdrew big time. I suppose now he feels he can't talk to me about any female colleague. Which is not good.

I understand completely with your list of how you feel and react when H mentions female friends/colleagues. I feel and react the same way.

But maybe its better that he does mention ff - still its hard to not to think negatively when your trust has been broken. I suppose time and consistant behavior on his part will help with trust issues.

I had no problem - before all this - trusting my H with ANY female. Should you go back to that complete trust again ? Or is that what got us into trouble in the first place ?

I suppose middle ground is the best - not being obsessive about females H associates with - but still let H know that if he starts feeling to close to a female friend - that he can tell us about it without us overreacting - and we can decide the best way to precede from there.

Thanks for your postings, Sage.
Amy

[sage]

LnL -- The flirting stuff is interesting...I don't think of h as a big "flirter" although women do seem to gravitate towards him and he is receptive in conversation. xow was a big time flirt and it raised the hair on the back of my neck each time I was around her (even way before the bomb stuff happened). Perhaps I just felt stodgy in her presence.

I'd love to add some flirtatious qualities to my R with h. I try (perhaps lamely!) but I don't think he views me as a bubbly sort. We are affectionate with each other and we make each other laugh often...but I'd still like to add some innuendo...hmmm...what to do, what to do?

But, back to the subject at hand...h isn't overtly flirty with others in front of me and since DB'ing he's actually much more likely to seek me out in a crowded room than not.

Sage