Quote: I say it's funny because A) obviously I don't think room cleanliness will prevent drug use or eating disorders
And the rest of your itemized observations... boy, they hit me funny. In an "a-ha" sort of way. I tend to hold on to beliefs like that. Maybe it was our strict Catholic upbringing that brought us to conclusions like that? Interesting.
I'm on my 2nd cup of coffee and it sort of sparked an interesting thought for me (as a daughter and not a mother). My mom has her own set of fears--some of which are reasonable, and others which paralyze her and are not based on reality. As we were growing up, one of them was the former, though she never shared it with any of us.
But she would set up situations so she could control them--these staged sitches would be what she felt ideal in preventing us from making her fear turn into reality. So when one of them came to fruition for me as a teen, she fell apart from grief (I see this as grief now, looking back).
I can remember her saying to my dad (I was a great eavesdropper, and in an 1100 sq ft house, it wasn't difficult), and she would say, "I feel like I've failed her."
I don't hold her accountable for my choices and behaviors at all, but I find it interesting that she personalized my circumstances for years. Oddly enough this particular experience taught me a whole lot about others and myself. I consider it a turning point in my life. I am not as decimated by this or the outcome as she has been all along.
Now I'm going to think about how I might be doing this with D10 as well. I certainly have my own ideas on how things should work and I wonder if I'm missing the boat?
Thanks for the dialogue--it will give me something to think about as I go about doing my chores today. Which means I need to get hopping!
Have a great weekend!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
And the rest of your itemized observations... boy, they hit me funny. In an "a-ha" sort of way. I tend to hold on to beliefs like that. Maybe it was our strict Catholic upbringing that brought us to conclusions like that? Interesting.
"Cleanliness is next to Godliness"?
(It is easier to be clean than Godly, LOL! )
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I am so sorry that you have to deal with this situation. I am thankful that you and H have healed most of your marital problems. It would be worse for you to have to deal with this as a single parent. I agree that D is crying out for help and at the very least feeling guilty about her actions. Why else would she be writing about this kind of thing in her journal and take a chance on someone reading it.
Good luck with therapy. I hope and pray that you help her get away from pot now. My H has smoked pot at least once a day (usually more) for the last twenty plus years and although I can't really find a lot of information about effects of long-term pot smoking, I can't help but feel that it is a major contributor to our current problems.
I have given up hope of him quitting. If you have time, I would love to here your take on this situation. My current thread is It has to be about me!!
Again, good luck with the therapy and my thought and prayers are with your family.
Everything happens for a reason, maybe Dad needs to find that it isn't better out there, he needs to realize how good he had it here. Maybe he will find God and that is the most important thing when he finds Him he will know he is supposed to come home.
Ellie, I'm sorry about the lost romantic vacation in Big Sky country though it does seem like the right decision. Try to remember the strain that all this stuff can put on a marriage though--like the early years of having babies, you know. Is there anyone (grandparents?) who can stay at the house a few months from now when things are--I hope!--more settled? Someone who will enforce the clear rules and routines that will be well-established by then?
I hope you didn't think I meant to criticize when I suggested letting the journal discovery slide. You and I know that parenting is a hard job that must be done in person. You know your children and their lives, so please believe I did not mean any criticism of the choices you make. The very fact that you are facing this issue head on right away shows that you are doing the right things for your kids.
Quote: Some children, when ignored by their busy parents, deliberately behave badly.
That was D9 here. She craves attention from W, and W refused to give it. I think it also applies to the WAS. If they can't get the attention (or other emotional needs) that they require through "good" methods, they get disgusted and move on to "bad" methods. How much of this problem is really lack of "training" in good methods for each partner, I don't know.
Quote: I think this is part of my D realizing herself that she wants to back out of this dark world she has entered.
Cool that you are able to do this for her. Some kids want to "back out" but have no place else to go, or believe that they don't.
Quote: Okay - kids will be getting up soon, H comes home soon from a brief out of town trip, I will need to fill him in on the journal stuff before our meeting with D's psychologist this afternoon. Wish me luck!
Well, I guess you're through most of that by now, but anyway LUCK!
Thanks,
K
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
Hi all - too tired to give a complete update, but let me say it was awful!
Went to therapist, H gently explained to D that we were worried whether there were any other things we had to be concerned about. He asked her directly about cigarettes, alcohol - she denied. Then I revealed what I had found when I stumbled on the journal.
D's response was over the top, completely out of control. Not just the anger of the guilty so familiar to DBers (although plenty of that), but really scary, kind of whacked behavior. Psychologist thinks she might be rapid-cycling bipolar, and told me something interesting - that D's wild behavior when she was two could be connected, in that it is sometimes seen in kids who later develop bipolar disorder. I don't know how much weight to give to all that - and worry that her medications might be contributing to this - but she was definitely out of control in a way that was reminiscent of her 2 yr old rages.
Now, when she was little, she would eventually "come down" from her rages and usually was very contrite and sweet afterwards. D has given us the silent treatment since we got home earlier this evening, but did consent to join us in the family room for a movie (Repo Man And I had bought her favorite, Raisinettes). She was just in the kitchen a little while ago looking for a bedtime snack, and I asked her if I could help her find anything. She muttered no, but I did my best Act As If and told her "ILY, goodnight" in a normal way. A little while later she came out for something else and muttered something unintelligible as she went back to her room - either "ILY" or "I hate you" - could have been either! - but I actually think it was the former.
I am finding it helpful to think of how she was at two - the similarities are pretty striking - and I remember how to deal with that. Poor thing, this is really not just normal adolescent rebellion, but yet another manifestation of whatever miswiring there is in her brain. Getting her well is going to be tougher than I thought - I think.
Oh, Ellie, what a mess, and I'm so sorry. I can only say--getting everything out there now is better than letting her head off to college as an undiagnosed manic-depressive young woman. I'm so glad you are determined to figure this out and treat whatever it is. She is lucky to have you as a mom.
Curious--how did she behave at age 2? More than idle intrest: Some kind of manic-depression runs in my H's family--including possibly H, but he doesn't stand still enough to figure this out--some have said cyclothymia though, and his dad was diagnosed as bipolar (though I do not know any of this for sure, and I do know that depression is the obvious factor). Anyway, my D7 is fierce and sometimes moody and threw famously intense tantrums as a toddler, and occasionally today (when under stress, as we saw the other day). I do wonder.....
I don't know anything to write. I hope that it is not as severe as the possible worst case scenario. As you mentioned if there are drugs still in her system they may be affecting her behavior.
Hang in there. You've been through a lot and you will all get through this, too.
K
My sitch More importantly, Light A Million Candles
i am so sorry to hear of this most recent developement ellie. living with someone that is bipolar i can certainly feel your pain.
be thankful that we are in a time that doctors understand much more about the brain and how it works than they did even just 10 years ago. i had a friend whose mother received 18 shock treatments only because she lived in a time that they completely misunderstood bipolar behaivor (this was in the 70's).
my niece, who is now 27, had fits of rage when she was two, she would even foam at the mouth it was so bad. she sounds so amazingly like your daughter it's not even funny. ended up having eating disorders in her early teens and then turned to drugs in her late teens that lasted until her early 20's - all in an attempt to quiet her mind.
why am i telling you all this? be glad you are catching this behaivor early. this is what will save her.
Well, GBO, her "terrible twos" were quite spectacular. She would fly into these rages where I swear you could literally see her being overtaken by a flood of bad brain chemicals - it was like watching a volcano.After one of these outbursts, she would usually calm down. (When she wasa little older, she would come to us and apologize in a very loving way an hour later).
When she was two, she would wake up early and climb into bed with us and be really sweet and fun. That lasted about half an hour, and we seldom saw that girl again until the next morning. I remember we used to talk about how nice it would be if we got to see more of THAT girl.
During her twos, we would end up putting D in time out multiple times a day - up to 15 or 20 (obviously short time outs! ). And this wasn't for little stuff - heck, I didn't sweat the little stuff with her. I remember going to change her baby brother's diaper one day and finding her bite marks on his thigh! And I do have a vivid memory of her once standing on the windowseat in her bedroom screaming "I hate you all I wish you all were DEAAAAADDDDD!!!!" during a time out.
Writing this, it soundsa little more out of control than it really was - we didn't think there was anything wrong with her, just that she was on the top end of the bell curve for terrible twos. When she was good, she was very very good, and when she was bad she was horrid. It just seemed that she felt ALL of her emotions so intensely.
I remember the day my childcare helper said to me "do you realize she's only been in time out once today?" It was as if the heavens opened up and a shaft of light beamed down. And by the time she went to preschool at 4, she was the darling girl all the teachers loved. When she still had the occasional blow-ups, she would put herself in time out, running into her bedroom to pull the covers over her head and scream, then coming back out a half hour later all better.
All through elementary and middle school, until the ED hit, she was beloved by her teachers, had tons of friends, the most loving and empathetic girl. The kind of kid who would stand up for the little guy.
Does any of this mean anything now? Who knows. I certainly just thought it was a matter of personality traits at the time. And who knows - maybe the combination of adolescence and high dose Prozac is just bringing that out again now.
Betsey 
)
though it does seem like the right decision. Try to remember the strain that all this stuff can put on a marriage though--like the early years of having babies, you know. Is there anyone (grandparents?) who can stay at the house a few months from now when things are--I hope!--more settled? Someone who will enforce the clear rules and routines that will be well-established by then?
). And this wasn't for little stuff - heck, I didn't sweat the little stuff with her. I remember going to change her baby brother's diaper one day and finding her bite marks on his thigh! And I do have a vivid memory of her once standing on the windowseat in her bedroom screaming "I hate you all I wish you all were DEAAAAADDDDD!!!!" during a time out.