Here is the short version, which is really not short at all Me: 27 Brandon: 29 First date: June 19, 2001 Move in together September 1, 2001 He has some credit problems due to ex. We work out a budget, follow it, get his debit paid off. Engaged: September 22, 2002 Things were amazing, we had a great relationship, I really thought we had a good balance. Until......... Aug 2003- (maybe a little before this) I start to feel smothered, by his constant need for reassurance- I start doing my own thing more and more. Start hanging out with the guys from work- I work in a predominately male environment. I knew this bugged him, but did not care and he never said anything. He thought- well if she can have male friends, then I can have female friends. I saw this and stopped hanging out with the guys. He seemed not to notice. December 2003- Brandon gets a new job, starts going out of town a lot more. Life is crazy- we are planning a wedding- I get promoted at work, Jan and Feb 2004 we sale our house, buy a new house, lose the new house due to his credit, buy a different new house, my Dad announces he is divorcing my Mom after our wedding. My mom does not believe him. March 2004 , He is always away on business. I am stressed beyond stress. Missing him like crazy, feel totally taken for granted. He breaks up with me, leaving for a week, spending all kind of crazy money, comes home wants to make it work. April 2004. Have to live with my parents for a month- He goes away on bussiness every weekend. Hmmm- we never fix any of our problems May 2004- Move in to our new house I Feel like I come second in his life. I am doing everything, housework, packing, unpacking – twice!!! Planning a wedding, making decisions with out him, because he is out of town- I Do not want to make the decisions with out him, I want him to come home, and HELP. So when he does come home for a weekend, I am on a mission to get as much done as possible- because who knows when the next time he will be home. Mean while he spending money like no tomorrow and I am getting more stress, because he keeps spending. But I say nothing, I never told him how I was feeling in fear that he would break up with me again. June 19, 2004- We have the most amazing wedding day- If was perfect- We have a honeymoon stage of two weeks- were things are perfect- he is home – not out of town – being sweet and loving- in turn- I am meeting his emotional clingy needs- 2nd week in July he is gone again, I am back to doing everything again- when he is home- he is playing ball. We are spending no time together, and when we do, we fight. August 8- My dad leave my mom for OW! August 22, 2004- the second weekend he has been home since we got married. On Sunday tells me he is not sure is wants to be married. Stays in the house till Aug 31- this week he says all the typical WAS stuff. I was sure he was having some kind a mid life crisis Sept 3- comes and gets his stuff- cleans out the account. Sept 10th- I found out about OW- been seeing her since FEB 2004 Sept 13- comes over says he needs some time-I dbing – He denies OW Sept 15 comes over says he needs some time-I dbing- He denies OW-gives me money. Sept 17 comes over says he needs some time-I dbing- He admits to OW, but says it was just sex. Sept 19 comes over says he needs some time-I dbing Sept 22 comes over wants to come home- I tell him he needs to call OW and break it off- He cant. He leaves I do not talk to him again until Oct 4- tells me he is living with OW Oct 10 We meet - wants to come home- I tell him to do what needs to be done and we will talk Oct 12- We meet he took OW home- wants to come home- I am scared- tell him I think we should take baby sets. He says I have until the 15th to decide. Do not here from him again until Oct 21st- Calls – Living with OW again- Loves me! wants to get back together- I am even more scared this time. Tell him again to do what he needs to do. Oct 23- we spend the day together, he spends the night, goes home in the morning were OW is. Oct 25 comes over accuses me of sleeping with my roommate. I do not deny or confirm, I tell him it is none of his business- (this was stupid) but it made me mad because he is yelling at me about how I am married- and I am thinking are you kidding me- you told me it is over- you were living with HER. Oct 26- I go out of town to see my new niece. Manage to get myself really really confused. He treated me like Sh!@ for months, now I am suppose to jump and down and say ya!!!! He is back. He calls me everyday while I am in LA- Takes OW home on the 28th Nov 1, He phones, I tell him I am confused and I think it may be too late. He sends me flowers- is in totally panic mode. I go see him, He begs cries pleads .We talk,I asked him lots of questions about OW he tells me “everything” I believe it as truth. - I am begin to feel like the WAW now. So I tell myself to give him a chance. The rest of the week I try, but he is driving me nuts with all the begging and crying. Nov 6, I tell him I am sorry I just cant- He begs pleads cries- ask for one more chance- again I say ok. But ask him not to call me until Nov 9th. I need some space. Nov 9 -I missed him, we get together. Have a nice time. I think ok maybe. Nov 10- I found out he went for lunch with my dad- and dinner with my best friend. THIS makes me very angry. We fight about it, he starts blaming me for everything. Totally backslide. He Keeps saying I am trying why can you not see that I am trying. I turn on the computer and have him read my threads hoping he will understand the pain he has put me threw. Nov 11 – He is still blaming me- I can not even stand to be in the same room with him. Nov 13- We spend the day together- No R talk have a great time Nov 14 - He Keeps saying I am trying why can you not see that I am trying- I tell him I have not seen actions to support this- it is just words- He says How can I do this if you will not let me come home. Nov 17- he goes to his first C appointment. Nov 18, 19 – get emails from OW- confront him about somethings. He gets mad that I believe her over him. Comes to my office makes a big scene- throws his wedding at me- kicks the side off his truck- speeds off- I meet him- Again confront him about something in the letters- (remember 2 weeks ago I thought I already new “everything”) He tells me some of the things in the letter are true- I said why did you lie to me again- He says to protect me. I tell him he had his chance to come clean , and decided not to take it. Come clean now- He cant! Nov 20- I do not answer the phone at home, he shows up at the house, accusing me of sleeping with someone else. You know because- NOT ANSWERING THE PHONE = SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE. Nov 21, Comes over to the house, yells and is still blaming me, again, I tell him it is over at least for now. It is not that I do not think he can change. I really think he can. It is that I think he will give up on me first. I was trying to give him hope, so he would continue to work on himself, but than he accuses me of leading him on. I do not want him to think that. He will hate me if we do not get back together. I do see him again this week, and finally talk to him on Friday Nov 27th. Saturday Nov 28-he comes over to get some things he needs- Towels etc for his new place. He helps me clean the house, we put up the Christmas tree- Have fun! Nov 30 I went to his C Dec 1 he moves into his new place. Dec 5 we have our first C session together. I really like His C. He told me over and over again, that this is not my fault. Maybe that is why I like him.
Tired of thinking about my marriage, tired of talking about it, tired of everyone asking how things are, tired about worrying about hurting B, and Roommate, tired of being broke, tired of thinking every action through before doing it, tired of being alone, tired of having my every action being judge by B or someone else who calls them selves my friend. Tired of B pushing me, Tired of my mother telling me she will never forgive him, Tired of people telling me if I get back together with B, I am an idiot, Tired of hearing "once a cheat always a cheat”. Tired of hearing I can do better, Tired of people trying to "fix me up", Tired of thinking, period! tired of worrying, tired of wanting for Brandon to figure "it out", Tired of him blaming me, Tired of thinking I am second best, Tired! Just tired.
Ok that is enough self pity for one day. I need to find the strength to keep going, I just don’t no where to find it. Someone tell me is it worth it?
M3M - I'll reiterate the position I took before. Your H has a HUGE amount of growing and learning to do before he is "marriage material" and worth taking a chance on having children with. Do I think it's possible he could grow that much? Anything's possible. Do I think you should take him back before he has shown a determined, sustained commitment to doing all the things that would be necessary to prove he has dealth with his issues and changed? No. Requiring him to go through this stage and not short-circuiting it by letting him back too early is for HIS good as well as your safety.
Is he up to the challenge? We'll see by his behavior over the next several months. He needs to figure out why he started the affair in the first place, why he used drugs, why he was too chickenshit to call off the wedding and tell you he was having an affair.
Do I think you owe it to him? Not really - your vows were given under false pretenses (as you didn't know he was having an affair at the time) and I believe that releases you from any obligation to stick to your vows.
Do I think you need to decide right now? No.
Just give it some time. Give him the opportunity to become a better man. Keep the bar high and your boundaries clear. Don't sleep with him (no point in bringing a baby into all this mess, and he needs at least six months after his last sexual contact to have a reliable negative HIV test.). Evem if you don't stay with him, he will likely come out of this a better man if he works to win you back. If you cut him completely loose right now, I suspect he will drown (given my previous convos with him.)
Thanks Ellie, Your right B has a huge amount of growing up to do. Huge, This is my biggest problem right now. I get so frustrated when he acts immature. But here is what my problems is I have never once aloud myself to think positively about him since he left me. Defense mechanism, I think. Ron had posted to me a few weeks ago about me setting some goals. So, as of right now I only have one goal!
Remember the positives.
So here is my kind of pro vs. con list / changes I saw in him over the last year.
When I meet him and for the first two years of our R:
He is/was very sweet very kind, always put me first. Did sweet little thing for me, love notes, breakfast in bed. Always complimented me and showed his appreciation. Every night after dinner he would thank me, and tell me it was good. Told me the house look good when I clean by myself. Everything was 50/50- From buying groceries, housework and finances. Even though I made more money then him. He got a better paying job, because we started talking about having a family. Was honest with me about his $$$ issues, sincerely wanted to fix them. We meet with a finance adviser. We set a budget. He used the budget. He was great with our friend’s kids. Talk about wanting kids. We talk about everything. We were a team. He took pride in himself and our house. He did not use drugs/did not like to “party”. He was confident and secure. Calm and reasonable. We never fought and when we disagreed, it was discussed calmly and maturely.
In the last year here is what I saw different:
He stopped helping with the housework. He started going out with his friends and spending tons of money/ never called/sometimes he did not come home at all. Started saying he does not want kids. Stopped talking to me. I always came in second. Made me feel taken for granted. When we disagreed tempers would flare, he’d yell, I’d yell.
Quote:
No. Requiring him to go through this stage and not short-circuiting it by letting him back too early is for HIS good as well as your safety. –
I could not agree with you more. I just wish he’d get it all ready.
Quote: Just give it some time. Give him the opportunity to become a better man. Keep the bar high and your boundaries clear. Don't sleep with him (no point in bringing a baby into all this mess, and he needs at least six months after his last sexual contact to have a reliable negative HIV test.). Even if you don't stay with him, he will likely come out of this a better man if he works to win you back. If you cut him completely loose right now, I suspect he will drown (given my previous convos with him.)
He is drowning, I keep him a float. But I wish he’d figure out how to swim already. I am getting tried. I want the man I feel in love with back. Not the jealous, insecure, immature, unreasonable, blaming me for everything, short temped, alien.
Hi! I will not ask how things are going. I will tell you thanks for replying to my last message and telling me not to give up. I posted again today. Went to see C and she basically says "you do not want to end up in another bad relationship do you?" Makes me think she is saying to give up. I am a fighter and believe you me, I will let her know before long that I do not agree with her regardless of what her degree is in. But amen to what you had to say. I am tired of everyone telling me I should move on and I am crazy. I am not giving up on him but, will continue in my life. Hope that things are getting better for you. I will pray for you. Keep your head up!!!!!!! I will do the same here. If you get a chance read my last few posts!
Hello All, Well I have been doing alot of thinking lately and have realized alot of things.
1. My bigest mistake when the bomb dropped was alouding my self to became angry and bitter.
2. I need to focus more on the postives and stop dewling on the negitives.
Postives things I see in my H- He is helping alot more around house. 50/50 in fact I think he may even being more then his share lately- ( he got laid off last week) He is still atending C and NA ( altough last night he told me he does not think he needs to go anymore, Which maybe he is right) He is not spending money on things we do not need- Wow it is amazing how much farther ahead you get went you both have the same goal. He is learning to dettach and not being offended by the fact that I can t bring my self to "get back together yet" . we are still "just friends" ( does that not sound stupid after being with some one for 3 1/2 years)
Changes I need to make ( but dont know how) We are in Limbo- Things seem to have gotten better and better but now seemed to have just stopped- Like going up a hill - we are half way to the top and now we have stopped- well aleast we are not going back down- I rather be sitting in the middle waiting for a push- then slowly moving back down.
So, I really do think it is up to me at this point- I know I have not been meeting his needs and I no he needs reasurance that what he is doing is working, but I am still concerned about getting back together. I know this is a two way street but I am having a hard time. He really has done a 180, and really is bahaving like the man I agreed to married. My sweet H.
So anyways I have decided to move over here too piecing in hopes it well help me move up the hill or get off.
Nice to see you again and I am glad it is in piecing. We have both been through so much and I don't think there is anything harder to get over than betrayal. I know how you feel and I feel it to.
Give yourself time, clarity comes with time. You have been such a trooper and it is ok to just take time for yourself right now...I think I should follow my own advice!!
There are some really great people over here in piecing, I know they will be able to help, they certainly have helped me.
Sounds like you need a little boost in the emotional energy department. Well here it comes.......
We all go throught this stage. Not just in our current situation but in any R we have. This is the calm after the storm. We have clawed and begged and drug ourselves throught the quagmire of infidelity. We have seen benefits, we have seen our spouses grow, we have a vision of what the future may bring. But where does this all end? We get tired, our minds still drift now and then to the past and we stir up ugly memories. We know we shouldn't do this but it happens.
Emotional Energy Boost #1
when our thoughts go to the past we MUST not dwell on them. Purposely bring your thoughts around to the BEST time you have had. Let yourself be reminded of how far you have come in a short time.
Emotional Energy Boost #2
Look back at the emotional mess we all were when we first discovered DB. Now look where WE are. Pretty darn amazing right? Well pat yourself on the back. Take credit for the enormous amount of energy and effort we have expended to get where we are. Recognize the benefits of how the lowest point in our lives has brought us to become better in ourselves. Recognize the relationship skills we have built and our ability to apply them. Again, pretty significant accomplishment.
Emotional Boost #3
Take a look at B. In accomplishing all of the above and not running away ourselves, look at how we have benefited our spouses. Through our actions, they have found the path back to their commitment. "it takes one to tango" If not for our actions we would be single.
There is more to do, but please recognize how far you have come and what you have accomplished. This process is one of the hardest things you could ever do and you are doing a great job!!!!
Maybe it is time to set yourself a few simple goals again to get things off of dead center. Throw out some ideas and see what people think. I know you can come up with something creative. Maybe even think of something to do just for you. Recharge yourself. When was the last time you went to see your new niece in L.A?
I'm always just a phone call away.
Patience is still your best friend. Use it to your advantage.
Quote: He is still atending C and NA ( altough last night he told me he does not think he needs to go anymore, Which maybe he is right)
No, no no!!!! It is WAY to early for him to stop going to NA!
And frankly - I still haven't heard that he has ANY real insight into WHY he did all this. He has to figure that out, M3M, or he will repeat it someday. Don't make the mistake I made of letting him off the hook without him REALLY figuring out why he went this direction, and what his issues are.
Jen, thank you for the encouragement and for dropping in. It is always so nice to know I have people who are happy for me.
Steve, as always your words keep me focused and help me renew my belief in marriage.
Ellie, Thank you- You are the little voice in head. Whenever I think I might be being too hard on B, you remind me I am not.
____________________________________________________________ Quote from Ellie.
And frankly - I still haven't heard that he has ANY real insight into WHY he did all this. He has to figure that out, M3M, or he will repeat it someday. Don't make the mistake I made of letting him off the hook without him REALLY figuring out why he went this direction, and what his issues are.
We are working on this with the both counselors (one NA and One MC I know it seems like a lot) I could write for hours about the whys and I am not sure how B would feel about me posting it so I will sum it up for you. B had a tough childhood- one that he should have sought counseling for (as his sisters did) a long time ago. His parents got divorce when he was 5. His mom who as suffered from depression most of her life got custody but then developed a drug habit. Instead of letting his dad have custody when she could no long take care of them, she put them in foster home. From here B and his two 2 sister went for home-to-home, being exposed to physical, emotional, and sexually abuse. Finally years later, his Dad found out they were in foster care and fought to get custody. Which leads to a more chains of events no child should ever go though. B and 1 of his sister started doing crack in high school- kind of a peer pressure/ dealing with their life thing. B (with the help of a good friend) stopped after high school with no problems (or so he thought) His sister ended up in serious trouble, but stopped to. (Another reason why B should have none better) So, when the guilt came from the affair and his life seemed to be on a downhill spin it was offered to him by a so called friend- and thought (immaturely) well I have done it before and not gotten addicted- so why not. I am strong I can quite when I want to/ only the weak cant!
Even this time when he stopped he had no signs of drug withdrawal and stopped fairly easily- (this still seems weird to me). But this time he is taking the time to “learn” the dangers, he see the things it does to people- he is in Na with people who have lost everything to this drug- It is an eye opener. I borrowed this from Nevanna Thread (hope you don’t mind Nevanna) but this is what the counselor has said and she worded it perfectly.
“You can have an mlc at various time in your life, if you were not able to completely grow up properly and continued to have interruptions along the way in the game called life. His crisis will not be fixed today nor tomorrow and could take up to about 5 years. He's on a search to find himself and deal w/those unresolved childhood issues that are raising their ugly little heads at this time.”
B is working on things. Sometimes I wonder if it is not better to let sleeping dogs lay because he is remembering things now, that really really upset him. I knew most of this before I married him. But he always made it seem like no big deal. Looking back I remember thinking B was having some sort of mlc or was depressed – This was even before we were engaged- but I did not vaditae his feeling, and he seemed to get over it. Now I know he just got better at hiding it, because he thought I did not care. Which bring us to the affair. Again this is the simple version. Only because I do not want to bore you. He had told me hundreds of times what his needs were, and I did not listen. He stopped telling me he was unhappy, so I thought things were fine. That he had finally “dealt” or “ accepted the fact that I had my own life. But all he did was stopped telling me, because he realized that I was not going to listen anyways. Then we got really busy and I am guilty of putting are relationship on the back burning “until our lives slow down”. I even said this to him once when he said to me “Hun please could we just have one day where we just spend the day together- without planning the wedding, or packing please. (this was before the OW). I remember it as clear as day- I said after the wedding. So when he meet OW- they started off as friends. She paid attention to him, meanwhile whenever he was with me, I made no time for him. I was in a mad rush to get things done. Like I have said there is a lot more but I could be here for hours.
He is trying; He is doing all the things a committed guy does. I have slipped up quite a few times but after I calm down, we talk it out. I really have to learn to be more patient with him. Lately I seem to fly of the handle at the stupidest things. But B doesn't get mad at me for it, because his actions caused to be like this. I do believe it may be my turn to give a little. I really have been “taking lately” I just fell it is not up to me to make this right. It is up to him. But I have to start making an effort. He is out of town for two week (he got a new better job) so when he comes back, I am going to slowly start Dbing again and meeting some of his needs. (I really have be making this all about me lately) He is working hard as hell to prove himself to me and sometimes I feel I may be walking on him a little. B understands that "I'm sorry" is not enough that he really as to work at it. He understands now that we are a team. Last night he called me and said he was board because everyone went out the bar. I said: why did you not go? He said: because I thought about it and even though I wanted to, it would not be good for us. I said: what do you mean? He said: because we are a little behind in the bills, so I want to try to get caught up. I realize that before when I wanted something I only ever thought about what I wanted or what was best for me. But from now on I am going to make every decision based on “us” vs. instead of ME. That is what married people do.
Any ways this is too long so I will stop here, I think I will have my home computer fixed tonight, so hopefully I will have more time to post these days.
Thanks for listening everyone- It feels so good to open my thread and see I have people who care.
