Where's my sick bag? Ride getting bumpy!

[Livnlearn]

Hello all,

My last thread got locked at a critical juncture, so I am going to give you the link and paste the last few posts here for a bit of continuity -

Putting into practice what I have learned

Elli wrote -

... even though he's staying with OW1 (yuck!) he seems pretty interested to have lunch with you and interested in maybe coming for dinner - doesn't seem like that would really be the case if he was all involved with OW romantically again.

And I commented -

On that note I shall go to bed and try to banish all dark thoughts.

It feels pretty YUCK to be 'in competition' with my own ex-'friend' for the attentions of MY own H. This is NOT easy.

Does H even consider what an atrocious friend OW 1 has been to me?? Yet he accuses ME of thinking only of myself???

Then later on again -

Just woke up in the middle of the night, and I am in floods of tears.

I think I don't respect my husband one little bit. The fact that he has gone back to being 'friends' with that ugly, lying, betraying, hateful piece of work is the final straw for me. Is she still more important to him than I am? Why is he tormenting me? Why does he even want to see me when he sees that disgusting piece of work? Just the thought of her repels me to the core. She is like a toxic contamination in my life. My photo albums have her pictures in them still, my recipe books have things written in that she made, I feel like moving away from this place as I can't bear the thought of her and my H together, even as 'friends' any more. If I do ever make the decision to move away, it will be because my H can't be bothered to see what he has done to our M and our R, and still blames me for all of this.

I don't understand how if it was really only about money (it isn't!) we are not still together right now, pooling our resources and not going through this hell. This IS about H and his "falling in love with the B" I am sorry to say. Does he not respect himself enough to avoid her like the plague? I think it might be my turn to start avoiding HIM like the plague.

And he has the nerve to pull me down continually with his rants and visits, when I am strugggling to just get on with my life.


Followed by -

Well,

It is now time for my alarm clock to ring! I feel better, I have decided to dedicate this day to D. She has a school holiday, we are going to put up the tree together, I have friends coming around this evening for dinner, and in between I will get on with chores. I will make sure D has great Christmas, no matter what. I will not get H and my feelings get in the way of that, I will demand an answer of some kind from my H by this weekend about broad plans for Christmas, at the very least. I will make it plain that I do have plans and choices of my own (which I do!!)


And Slowly responded -

Hi LnL - Great recovery - I'm glad you have positive plans

I know just how bleak things can look in the depth of a night, and what it feels like to question one's own judgement, whether the person we are fighting for is even worth it But, getting back to dbing basics is more for our own recovery, so GO YOU!!!



So what happened yesterday? Let me see...

I got my act together by the time that H turned up for lunch. I was composed and seemed relaxed (I think!)

Lunch went OK, D had a friend over and was obviously more concerned to play with her than play with her Dad although they managed a tickle fight. Then after lunch H and I talked about movies in the light of some recent ones that he had watched.

It was all in good humour, with a bit of argument over certain aspects, but at one point he was talking about a person of my counrty of origin who had written a film review that he termed very 'strident'. It is a word he uses when someome, women especially, writes things that he he disagresss with! He called her moralistic. I said, my POV is that I see a lot of amoral behaviour all around me in the Western world, and back home, while there is plenty of that too, there is still also a strong, old fashioned sense of doing the right thing. I said I found the moral relativism all around me here rather disturbing. Things that people chose to do 'just happened' apparently. I could see H getting a little alarmed at my seriousness. So I let it drop. Maybe he took my comments personally. Good! But I wasn't getting at him secifically, I do find it to be the case that the very concept of morality seems to be almost old fashoined and defunct.

We then decided to watch a film together, on DVD. It was quite nice. In it there was a man who had left his family, and he had the same name as my H. As all of us know here, just watching films about separation, betrayal, infidelity and divorce is very painful. I was not able to stop the flow of tears. H also tears up over films. He leaned cross and asked if I wanted a tissue in a jokey kind of way. I said, I have one. But I wasn't crying over the film, I was crying over US.

Anyway, I managed to compose myself quite quickly after that brief little lapse.

At one point, H's cellphone rang and he looked to see who it was with the display turned away from me, went outside to take the call and returned quite quickly. I don't think OW 1 in 'friend' mode would have needed to call my H just then somehow. I also received some calls during his visit, but it's funny how I didn't need to hide them. Oh Ellie, yes, I should have looked furtive and taken them outside????? I guess I am not naturally built that way!

Anyhow, I kept my cool and was cheerful. H didn't mention anything about coming to dinner in the evening, and I didn't mention it. Shortly before leaving, he said, as I haven't really done much with D this time, maybe we can do lunch tomorrow? I said, let's see... (he had spent four hours here).

Then I said, I don't want to come across as a nag, but I think it's really important that you make the appointment to have that carcenoma removed (he had told me he hadn't got around to it yet, depsite asking me numerous times when the surgery was open last trip, and I know he spent the night at OW 1's place.) He said, yes, I should, in fact it has started bleeding. I said, in that case, please make it a priority. He said, OK, I'll do it tomorrow morning.

I also asked him to think about what he wanted to do over Christmas and to let me know soon so I could make my plans. He promised to think about it over the next couple of days and let me know.

Then he gave me a kiss, still on my cheek but rather nearer my mouth than usual...if you know what I mean.

I said bye in a cheerful but not needy way, and turned to get on with some kitchen chores.

In the evening I had five folks around to eat, three guys who were H's friends here before I even entered the scene in this country, along with their girlfriends.

We had a very pleasant, nice meal, and as usual I was asked how come I didn't consider opening a restaurant. And as usual I replied, find me an investor and someone to look after the business side, and I would be happy to think about the food and decor side, though I have no qualifications in catering professionally.

The convo got around to my being asked what I had been up to lately on the personal work front and when I told them about my projects, they were enthusiastic to have a look at what I had done. When I showed them they were very complimentary and encouraging. Many of them are involved in the field so they appreciated what they were looking at.

So, all in all a very self-esteem boosting evening indeed. And very enjoyable too.

This morning, before D left for school, H rang to say he had decided to take the bus back home this morning so as to reach in daylight, the later bus deposited him in the dark, leaving with him a long walk.

Then he asked who was there last evening. I told him, the whole gang. He sounded surprised. He told me he hadn't seen one of them for quite a while. We had a short chat and then ended. I was quite glad he had called off lunch, leaving me more time to get on with things, so I was able to respond without sounding less than OK about things. (Note, the acoustics at OW 1's place are very particular and I can tell from the sound over the phone when H is at her place!! )

Well, that's a report of yesterday.

Livnlearn

[slowly]

#1

Welcome to your new home, LnL

Then he asked who was there last evening. I told him, the whole gang. He sounded surprised. He told me he hadn't seen one of them for quite a while. We had a short chat and then ended. I was quite glad he had called off lunch, leaving me more time to get on with things, so I was able to respond without sounding less than OK about things. (Note, the acoustics at OW 1's place are very particular and I can tell from the sound over the phone when H is at her place!! )

Hmmm. So, he has total visibility of what you do when he is not around, who you socialise with. He gets to cancel arrangements with you. And he gets to hang out with ow. Now, how is this different from when he first moved out? If you had a choice, what of these dynamics would you like to change (those that are within your control, of course )

Slowly

[Livnlearn]

Hi Slowly,

Good of you to stop by, and thanks for popping in after my middle-of-the-night rant.

Hmmm. So, he has total visibility of what you do when he is not around, who you socialise with. He gets to cancel arrangements with you. And he gets to hang out with ow. Now, how is this different from when he first moved out? If you had a choice, what of these dynamics would you like to change (those that are within your control, of course )

That's the eternal question on this thread, isn't it?

H gets to stay here when he needs to*, yet lectures me on how he is my ex-husband, tells me he and OW 1 are just friends (remember at bomb time she was just a 'dear' friend? That one made me want to gag) but prefers to stay there when he can.

Even the fact that my H is jealous whenever I show signs of getting away and having fun, getting a life. I wonder if it is just irritation that I am not miserable while he might be, that I have any sort of fun while he is PAYING for it... I mean, he can hardly say that my going away last weekend was a splurge when we were staying with friends.

(* I forgot to mention in my last post, that when he was leaving and we had the convo about his surgery, he was saying that it was awkward, he knew he might be unduly anxious, but he didn't want to be in the hills on his own after it, and I said to him, if he needed somewhere to stay afterwards he knew he was welcome to stay here for a few days, and he said, thanks for offering. Wonder whether OW would be up for that?)

This business of showing unconditional love all the time they are running after OW is SOOOOOO hard, where do we draw the line?

What really upsets me is his rants about selling our house so he can have access to the capital. I don't know if this is just temporary rage at being hard up, or does he really not mind destroying D's home and just ripping up everything we were trying to get together?

He continually harps on how he has paid for it. All my years of labour for our family is not represented in bricks and mortar, so I have done nothing? Excuse me?

To answer Ellie, the law in this country, at least during separation, is that the child stays with the primary custodial parent (usually the mother) and has the right to continue in the marital home. I think this is right. Of course when it is the mother who is having an affair and wants out, then I don't know what happens, if the H has to move out and lose everything or what.

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

Here is something I do NOT want -

H stays here a few days over Christmas but has to 'go into town' or 'go see a movie' on his own, ie, go meet up with OW 1. This will NOT be acceptable to me. How do I put my foot down about that not happening?

D said the other day, why can't her Dad just come and spend Christmas over here with us?

This time last year he had broken up with OW 1 and they were not in contact, I had started making overtures and had just started DBing. I went to spend Christmas with my family, but before and after he came and spent time with us. In emails he told me how depressed, devasted and suicidal he was and had been, but, it seemed, over the fact the OW 1 had dumped him!

This Christmas I have to face the fact the 'he has made his "peace"' with both OW, whatever that really means.

My feeling is that H has always been more attached to OW 1 than OW 2. She was his first band-aid of choice, and I think her leaving her husband is what precipitated my H leaving his family, for sure (I mean their concrete decisions to leave were made the same week!!)

H is supposed to come back to me soon about Christmas plans, any ideas on how to handle things?

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

I just borrowed this from over on one of JJ's threads about doing 180s.

One of the first places we might want to try to do a 180 on is within ourselves. Inside of our heads, and in our thinking patterns.

How many times have we all been guilty of automatically knowing the reasons why someone is doing something? Have many times have we gone with the first "theory" that pops into our heads about a person's intentions? Have many times have we been guilty of trying to be "mind-readers", and KNOWN that the actions of another person is soley based on the intention of causing us pain?

Next time this happens to you, "try something different". Take that automatic thought, and try to envision what the total opposite of that thought might be. "Reframe" your thinking, do a "180" on it.

More often than not, we will find that the truth of the matter doesn't dwell at either extreme case, but usually falls somewhere in between.

I think I am definitely in line for a few. I find myself one year on from starting with the DBing, in a not dissimilar place to last year, only with H now having TWO bumpy As behind him and BOTH OW still in the picture to some extent, as 'FRIENDS'!

Here's what one poster (uvision) to the original thread wrote in with -

My WAW kept suggesting that we reconcile our high interest debts... My friends kept warning me that she was trying to get the debt in my name to have grounds to "get away" without paying it... which I guess was funny anyways - since I was the one making all the payments. I finally stopped speculating and suggested that my wife makes an appointement with the bank. We were approved as "co-signers" a couple weeks ago and now we have a low interest loan (8.75%) with both of our names on it instead of many payments of up to 30% interest rates. It took listening to her and some trust instead of worrying about hidden motives. She said that a big part of her worries has just been taken care of.

And JJ replied -

You gave up your assumption that she was trying to mess you over, saw that there was MAYBE another intention for her actions, and found out that something good could come out of it!

This sounds like it turned out to be a win/win situation for you! That's great!

I think this may be one area that I can affect some change.

I have to say that there is the big fear that every point I concede to H on the financial front I will jeopardise my own position, which is precarious.

If I approach him about working together on my getting something going in the (bread and butter producing) field that he is in (he has had many years headstart) it might prove to be a win-win situation. I get some more cash in and H sees me dropping the rope on him and doing what he has been requesting me all along. That is, I will be validating his concerns.

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

Hi Everyone,

Looks like this party is a little slow in starting???

Guess I should put up some festive streamers -

...... ....... ....... ....... ...... ....... ....... ...... ......
. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
.... ....... ....... ....... ....... ...... ...... ....... .......

Perhaps I haven't put on any good music and laid out the canapes yet... Ok here we go! There's a big jug of mulled wine on the table and some mince pies too. Help yourself!

OK, so after reading one of the latest 'Charlyne Cares' emails, I decided to send a little card up with D tomorrow in which we both tell H we would be delighted to have him with us for Christmas and the day after. Perhaps my previous offhand invite doesn't make H feel very welcome. If in fact he refuses, then I have a friend to join up with, and if he insists on having her for Christmas, which I doubt, then I will have her for New Year, so I refuse to feel bad.

But, I just dread him taking D to OW 1's place for any festivities this holiday period.

Today I suddenly found myself cycling right behind OW 1. Funny how I hadn't clapped eyes on her for eighteen months after the bomb, now I spot her twice in a month.

My D was very pleased to be complimented by her karate teacher this evening, she came home bubbling with happiness over the fact.

Our decorations are up, and we have quite long and earnest discussions about whether Santa exsits or not, and how to test different theories. D wants to keep all doors and windows closed (When she pointed out we didn't have a chimney for Santa to come down, I informed her I always left a chink of window or balcony door open) to see if that prevents him, but then she said, if he DOES exist, then he won't be able to leave me anything!

She's in a quandary. She's 95% on the side of not believing he exists, but the tiniest doubt remains.

Spoke to H on the phone this evening about presents for D and stuff. He yawned loudly throughout our convo. He does this a lot, either early morning or evening. Could be just sleepiness, but it makes me feel I am boring that he goes on like that so.

I bought a couple of nice small things for myself when out shopping today, and cheered myself up.

Well, I hope some more folk arrive and the party begins to swing .

Happy Weekend!

Livnlearn

[kml]

LNL -
Just let go of the OW1 stuff. You have no control over it, and really, no idea what is going on. Obsessing over it won't get you closer to your goals.

Don't take the bait when H tries to push your buttons (how's that for mixing my metaphors? )

Keep building a happy life for yourself - and you know that means more financial independence - and be kind and lovingly detached with H.

You really have no control over whether he wakes up or not - only time will tell whether he's capable of taking responsibility for his actions, or whether he will run off for the quick fix of another R. The best you can do is handle yourself in an admirable way - that actually puts the most pressure on them to examine themselves, when they can no longer honestly find things to blame you for.

Hope you're having a good weekend.

Ellie

[mojo]

Hi Liv

Thought I'd pop by to see you. Boy oh boy you do seem down. I can understand why though...not only is there an ow1 there's an ow2 also and ow1 = ex friend....that must have been a massive shock. I know how much i dislike ow and I don't even know her...so if she were a friend too....i think she would be close to death. Actually that happened to my boss...her h ran off with her best friend...I honestly don't know how she survived that...but she did!

Anyway, kml beat me too it. I haven't read all of your threads but I know the first lesson I learned from this board was that I had to detach. You're not doing that right now are you? You have to banish all thought of h and ow1/2 to the back of your mind. Don't waste time thinking about what they are/are not doing. Take what your h has to offer....ignore if the phone rings....let him play his silly games.....you just enjoy your life. It sounds like you're doing that most of the time.....now extend it to all of the time. That brings me on to the second lesson I learned here. You can't control him, her, your d or anyone else for that matter. They're going to do whatever it is they want to do.....whatever you do won't make much difference. The only thing you can do is be happy and get on with your life and enjoy.....that way you're more interesting for your h, ow1/2 and you d and anyone else you're involved with.

I'm off in a bit on my pub crawl. My friend's been moving house this week and she sounds so stressed and knackered so we'll let our hair down a bit. I straightened my hair earlier today...it looked so odd having tidy hair....it looked longer too. But then I went to the gym and now my hair is washed and wavy and sticking out again. Lol I love doing all of these new things. My h liked my hair short....I've had it trimmed but not cut since he left...that's 9 months.....so it's nearly long now. I'm going to the hairdressers on Thursday.....don't know yet what I'm going to do with it....think I'll leave it to her.

Anyway, have fun this weekend. I'll keep on watching out for how you're doing. But think about this....at least you talk to your h....mine ignores me.....and when he doesn't ignore me he's abusuive to me.

Love MoJo xox

[Livnlearn]

Hi Mojo

Yes, I guess I am down. I was not conscious of it so much, just couldn't work well yesterday, my mind was all over the place, and so I decided to turn in early as I felt so tired. But I woke up in the wee hours and couldn't sleep, so decided to get up and carry on as best I could.

The "Charlyn Cares" emails I get assure us that the 'prodigal' spouse thinks about the LBS every day they are away. Does my H really think about me every day? I wonder if he just yearns to be back with OW 1 again. And he has to think about me because I am an impediment in his life, a financial drag.

Anyhow, guess I have to let go and just go through the days trusting that things will somehow work out. There is a definite downturn in the economy and when H feels pressured he turns on me. But I live in the same economy!

Anyhow, back to work.

Livnlearn

[Livnlearn]

The door bell rang and D came in followed by H. Surprised, I said, "Oh, hello!" H said "Hi", put down D's bags and then said "Thanks for the invitiation, I will be happy to accept. OK, I'm off!"

After he left I asked D were her Dad was going, and she shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't know. She looked like she did but couldn't tell. I didn't press it.

She hadn't done ANY of her homework having been too busy out and about. So on his weekend, I end up doing the 'sitting down with D over her homework' part.

Now he is no doubt with OW 1. Friends. H had his big grin on his face, his guilty grin.

Also, D came home with some big fluffy slippers from OW2 who left them for her as a present, so I have a big fluffy reminder of the other B**** every day in my own home.

I have been incredibly blue the whole weekend, just crying at intervals. I can't help it.

Livnlearn.