I've talked to my wife about the issue (big step for me) and tried to do so without guilt, etc. Just said, "Hey, this is what I need - it's important to me, I'm sorry I've been silent. Forgive me. Let's work on it." Long story short, she doesn't care. She says she does, but she really doesn't. There are lots of other issues in our marriage, but she is not interested in working on them. As far as she's concerned, there is no problem. I'm at my wits end, and I'm thinking of moving to the spare room down the hall. I don't want to move out (can't see my kid) and don't really have the money, but I feel like I have to DO something to express my feelings of isolation, since my attempts at talking about it are manipulated away, or ignored. What do I do...??? I am afraid of the reaction. I don't want a divorce, and I don't want to start the ball rolling in that direction... you know? Afraid of a slippery slope, but I can't live like this...the anger, self-esteem issues, frustration, etc. is effecting my whole life.
What makes you so sure that W doesn't care? I think if she says that she does, you need to take her at her word.
Have you read "Divorce Busting" or "The Divorce Remedy" or just "The Sex Starved Marriage". Think you need to read one of the other two to get a balanced view.
I think that most of the time, sex problems are more about communication and not feeling loved than about just sex.
I think moving down the hall will just cause more problems. Might cause more of a rift between you. Just my opinion...
You've just started the conversation. It is only the beginning. Keep talking about it. Don't nag, but be persistent. Tell her how you feel, but try not to be pathetic. Your not asking for the moon, just some love. If you stand on your own two feet and tell her the honest truth without backing down, you might not get laid but you will earn her respect, not to mention your self respect, which is actually a good start.
Moving down the hall is actually something I am considering for my own situation as a last resort. Sort of a "house separation." Maybe you shouldn't do this yet. It doesn't sound to me like you have exhausted all of your resources.
Good luck,
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Believe me, I think we all know exactly what point you are at...we've all been there...and some of us still are. However; I do have to agree with Rayanne...if your wife says she cares...don't jump to the assumption that she doesn't...take her at her word, afterall...unless you can crawl into her head you don't know for sure that she doesn't care. I know there are times I'd just love to be able to crawl inside my LDH's head to find out just what the heck he's thinking...but I cant, so I have to take what he says at face value.
I'm sure since you've found this board that you've been reading many of the posts out there...there's a lot to be learned from reading them. The main thing I've learned so far though is that you can't concentrate on working on her, or changing her...work on yourself, take a look at your own behavior, modify some of your behavior....her behavior towards you may change as a result. Also, if you haven't already read SSM, definitely pick up a copy of it and read it (I suggest more than once as I've picked up different things each time I read it). It's very easy reading and I think you will find many things you can relate to in it.
I certainly do understand the logic behind moving to the other room...I encourage you to put this off as long as possible though, here's why. Moving out of the room doesn't always force someone to see your point in alienation, you could be providing her with the outlet she needs to not deal with the problems at hand and if she doesn't see a problem in your marriage you run the risk of her going on in her happy little rose-colored world thinking nothing is wrong. If you stay in the room she's forced to deal with you and the problems you've voiced to her already. That doesn't mean your bedroom has to become a battlefield though...all I'm saying is you've stated your piece to her, continue to do so in a calm loving manner and don't budge on it.
I agree with you 100%. The point I was trying to make to MNT is that I would only do this as a last resort, sort of the emotional equivalent of a divorce.
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Glad to hear that I was very tempted to do exactly the same thing with my LDH. I figured I'm not being treated like a wife/lover, so I may as well live like a roommate. I recently found out though that my LDH is vehemently against us having separate bedrooms so my moving to another room would have only caused him to be angry and feel that I was doing something to spite him. On a slightly different topic (I promise not to hijack long)...a couple of weeks ago my LDH eluded that he'd like to cut back his counseling sessions to every other week....I agreed that it would be ok...(no sense being a stickler about the frequency on that as long as he continued to go on a fairly regular basis)...for some reason though after he saw his counselor this week he's decided to continue going weekly. I was surprised at this turn of events, but I'm taking that as a positive thing. He believe he's possibly recognizing that getting past/over some of his issues may take more work than he initially expected....and I'm proud of him for being willing to do the work...that is a very loving gesture in my book
Just a little more info on my sitch. This has been going on for 5 years (the lack of intimacy.) I've not read any of the books yet, I've just been winging it I guess. I've talked to my wife repeatedly over the last 6 months, but it only ever precipitates an argument. She wants to have an intimate relationship, but.. but... but...
I've called her on all the excuses too... they are usually irrelevant, untrue, or the other side of a coin that she is in control of (i.e., I haven't had time, however, I've come up with 15 new hobbies to fill my time with recently; I do want to talk...o.k., now it is a commercial break, how are you?; etc. etc) I'm tired of the arguments, and I'm tired of trying to express my point of view when it just gets twisted around. Long story short, I am told that I am the problem, either because I think that there is a problem when there really isn't, or because I am the root cause of all the problems that she will admit...no matter how illogical.
The move is my attempt to make it plain that there is a problem, and it is not simply one of my perception. Or rather, that even if it is a problem of how/why I percieve there to be a difficulty, that is enough of a problem for us both to be concerned about.
My wife is quite happy to have things as they are. I am the one "making waves" because I am not satisfied with the status quo. If I act like nothing is wrong, then nothing changes. If I try to voice my feelings verbally, I am argued with and confounded. At least this is something that I can do that can't be misconstrued or argued with, even if it can be turned against me.
I dont' think that unless I make it plain that I will not inhabit a farce of a marriage that anything will change.
Quote: I dont' think that unless I make it plain that I will not inhabit a farce of a marriage that anything will change.
You've got that much right. I recommend you run, don't walk, to your nearest copy of Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch, and start reading. It'll help you figure out how to show your wife your not just all hat and no cattle. It'll also help YOU deal with whatever you need to deal with.
Ok...believe it or not you're going through the same things we've all gone through or are currently going through.
Quote: I've talked to my wife repeatedly over the last 6 months, but it only ever precipitates an argument.
I did the same thing with my LDH, the oonly thing repeatedly talking to him about our problem did was make him push me away quicker and farther...he took my repeatedly bringing up the problem as nagging. Your wife probably is too. The approach so far that I've found that works best with him, maybe it will with your wife too is this....make a simple statement about how you feel and then drop it...walk away, don't make a huge conversation out of it...give her time to stew on it awhile. That approach works great for me with my LDH...he won't always respond initially to what I've said (for example...and don't feel you have to use this..."I'm too young to live in a celibate marriage. At this point in our marriage we have virturally no physical contact unless I force the issue and I'm not willing to live the rest of my life that way." I didn't threaten divorce, I didn't threaten walking out the door...I just made a statement and let him think on it. Believe it or not he initiated a conversation later on (several days later) regarding what I had said. It made him think. Have you tried anything like that with your W yet?
Quote: I've called her on all the excuses too... they are usually irrelevant
Whoa! Irrelevant?...this is going to sound harsh, but irrelevant to who? You obviously I realize that, but if she's putting these excuses out there they may not be irrelevant to her. Perhaps they are excuses, true...but they are blocking issues she's putting out there regardless. Is it possible you aren't taking her "excuses" seriously enough?...could you be dismissing something that she needs fullfilled? Are there things in your daily life that you could do (chores, shopping etc) that you could do to attempt to alleviate some of her excuses? I know with my H many times the excuses he would come up with that I thought were irrelevant truly did weigh on his mind and I didn't realize it. He was putting too much pressure on himself which was causing him not to make any time for me and completely shut me out...although he was unaware of this at the time
Quote: I am told that I am the problem, either because I think that there is a problem when there really isn't, or because I am the root cause of all the problems
You know...I think we've all been told that we're the problem and believe it or not...you are part of the problem. You're going to learn this as you read more of these posts, read the books that have been recommended and then begin trying the different approaches. We so often approach our spouses in ways we feel are completely reasonable, loving, encouraging etc...but to our spouse on the other side of the coin/problem we are doing nothing but pressuring, demanding, finding faults in them and insisting that they change when they don't think they need to. I used to think I was being so loving in the way I handled the situation with my LDH but my approach kept getting me further and further from a solution.
I know you feel you are in a really tough situation right now, you're discouraged, frustrated, resentful, confused etc. There is hope though...but you're going to have to be willing to deal with some of your feelings and really do the work it will take to get to a better place in your marriage.
We're all here to help each other out, you're going to find quite a bit of support here...and lots of good (and some not so good) suggestions.
I was very tempted to do exactly the same thing with my LDH. I figured I'm not being treated like a wife/lover, so I may as well live like a roommate. I recently found out though that my LDH is vehemently against us having separate bedrooms so my moving to another room would have only caused him to be angry and feel that I was doing something to spite him. On a slightly different topic (I promise not to hijack long)...a couple of weeks ago my LDH eluded that he'd like to cut back his counseling sessions to every other week....I agreed that it would be ok...(no sense being a stickler about the frequency on that as long as he continued to go on a fairly regular basis)...for some reason though after he saw his counselor this week he's decided to continue going weekly. I was surprised at this turn of events, but I'm taking that as a positive thing. He believe he's possibly recognizing that getting past/over some of his issues may take more work than he initially expected....and I'm proud of him for being willing to do the work...that is a very loving gesture in my book 