Link to previous thread. Well, for those who have been following the adventures of the intrepid Minkerman, things appear to have taken a turn for (I hope) the better.
To catch up, we have been separated 5 weeks, and plan to stay that way for at least another 6...so we are about halfway between separating and making a decision on our future as a couple.
Yesterday, she emailed me and said she would like to accompany me to a wine-tasting event that I had previously registered for. I took this as a good sign, as I had invited her 2 weeks ago and she had declined.
Well - we went, had an awesome time, ate, drank and laughed. Later, in the car, she said "I don't think you and I are done yet", and I said I was happy to hear that.
Then we got to her place, and she invited me up. Uh-oh....
Long story short, we ML for about 3 hours and she asked me to spend the night, which I did. it was so nice to spoon again and feel her breathing next to me.
Based on how the previous 5 weeks have been going, this is a bit of a step forward
I know, I know - she will probably panic now, and pull back. But I think these are all positive signs. More to come (I hope). Wish us luck.
MM,
I also think these are positive signs. Things seem to work best for you when you put out an invite and expect nothing and then let her make the decision. Congrats on the interaction. Keep strong.
Journaling:I have a bit more time to write, now that I'm home from work.
We talked for a long time last night. There was no animosity or blaming whatsoever. She said, "it looks like we will be trying again, but this time if it doesn't work, we are truly done" to which I think I agree. But it will work. Because we have such a connection, and genuinely like and love each other. The big difference now is that we are communicating on a deep level. On the way back to her place, she then said "so when are we having sex?" in a playful way. I said "tonight"...and the rest is history. I thought she would back way off after that, but I've talked to her twice today and she seems fine.
I am hoping it wasn't just the wine and great atmosphere talking...although when people have had a few drinks, their inhibitions reduce and their true feelings come out. So maybe the wine talking isn't so bad.
She told me the reason why she changed her mind on accompanying me last night. She says she sees a new "passion" in me. She also says I have an "edge" that she hasn't seen in me for a long time. This is good information because that is exactly how I feel too. I'm glad she notices it, but I have made these changes for me.
So here's what has happened in the last hour.
I got invited to a Chef's competition in a major hotel today. It's for Saturday (tomorrow) night. Of course I said YES! Sounds like a total blast, 100 dollars a plate fundraiser, and I get to go for free. Sooooo.....I thought, in light of yesterday's events, should I ask W if she'd like to accompany me? Sure...she might feel pressure, but I need to find out where the boundaries are. So far, I am doing what appears to be working for our relationship.
She immediately said "sure, I'm in". So we have another date tomorrow night!
This is really encouraging, and I think that if we continue to gently walk this path, we will get a chance to work on "us" as a couple again.
Oh, and we are going to a hockey game on Valentine's Day...I promised her no cards or flowers, just beer and hot dogs....I think that's why she accepted
I hope this info is helping someone other than me.
Mink,
What do you do when there is no "reply box' at the end of your thread to send a message?
BT
That means the thread has reached its max number of replies and has been locked. That's why I started this second thread.
Mink - You are in awesome shape! Once the sex starts up things usually get back on track.
Your sitch sounds very similar to houndfan's sitch.
Great work!
Journaling:
As stated above - I am squiring W to a high-end dinner and dance tonight. I just called her to say I'd be by her place at 5:15pm to pick her up, since the pre-event starts at 6:00pm.
She said, why don't you come over earlier, like around 3:00?
See, you have to focus on the small things that show positive movement. She must feel comfortable and unpressured by the situation, or else she wouldn't have suggested it.
If I was a dog, I'd be wagging my tail!
Thanks tree. I am going to think positive and project a confident, positive demeanor. You create your own future; the only way to get a positive outcome is if you imagine it happening, right?
I will post after this is all over. I'd be lying if I said I was Mr. Cool and Calm about this.
Mink
You are in fantastic shape my man.
In each of these situations that led to reconciliation, the W met the H in the middle. Your wife is opening the door.
I know, and I appreciate the movement she is making. Thanks for rooting for us.
Well, yesterday turned out to be the best day since we started this journey. Things are definitely looking up, but I am staying cautious, just in case.
I went to her place at 3:00 like she said. She had made up a nice plate of snacks and opened a bottle of wine. We sat down and talked...it was really good, and she says she is on board with us trying again, but she still wants to stay in the apartment until the end of March, so she can continue discovering herself and ensuring we don't fall back on old patterns.
We went to the chefs' event, and it was really nice. We had a great time. Later, we went back to her place and she asked me to stay overnight again...I readily accepted. Once again, the sex was utterly amazing, I don't think it has ever been this good for us.
We fell asleep in each other's arms and went for breakfast this morning. We talked a lot about what the future would look like for these two brand new people. She is a more than a little scared of moving down this path and seeing us end up exactly the same as we were before...that is why we are agreeing to stay apart for another 6 weeks, and keep dating. I am calling her my girlfriend, and she likes it
So, next date is on Valentine's Day, we are going to a hockey game. Like I said, things are looking up.
Hope she doesn't change her mind, but I think it will all be OK.
BREAKING NEWS - Just as I was writing this she MSN'd me and sent me a little heart icon. I love her so much...this is gonna work dammit.
Hi Minkerman,
Thanks for stopping by my thread. I'll echo what the others have said: this all sounds great! Keep it up, don't push too hard and all that...but it seems like you are in great shape and will make it work.
My wife is not meeting anywhere near half way. She just left the house and said the only reason I have been nice the last few weeks was cause of the antidepresents. Really mean. Unreal what is coming out of her mouth. I moved out of the bedroom today and now have my own comfortable room. Our relationship is in bad shape but for some reason, I am less worried and could care less.
Minkerman
This is awesome! We love to hear when another potential divorce is busted.
Your situation is VERY similar to that of Hound Dog. Once your wife opened the door, you carefully applied your DB skills and things started to get back on track.
Unfortunately, for many of us, our wives have slammed the door shut. Until it cracks open, it is incredibly difficult to make it work.
Good luck! Enjoy your 6 weeks as a bachelor with a girlfriend.
You are going to make it!
Minkerman
This is awesome! We love to hear when another potential divorce is busted.
Your situation is VERY similar to that of Hound Dog. Once your wife opened the door, you carefully applied your DB skills and things started to get back on track.
Unfortunately, for many of us, our wives have slammed the door shut. Until it cracks open, it is incredibly difficult to make it work.
Good luck! Enjoy your 6 weeks as a bachelor with a girlfriend.
You are going to make it!
Minkerman
This is awesome! We love to hear when another potential divorce is busted.
Your situation is VERY similar to that of Hound Dog. Once your wife opened the door, you carefully applied your DB skills and things started to get back on track.
Unfortunately, for many of us, our wives have slammed the door shut. Until it cracks open, it is incredibly difficult to make it work.
Good luck! Enjoy your 6 weeks as a bachelor with a girlfriend.
You are going to make it!
Well fish, it isn't busted quite yet, don't jinx me
I will feel it's busted when she's back in the house with me, and can look me in the eye and say "I love you" without prompting.
I feel good that we will get there!
Today she told me she knows what she would like for her birthday (1 month from now), I said what? No, I'm not going to tell you, you need to figure it out. I said well you have to give me a hint. Well OK, it's at Tiffany, and I did tell someone, she said.
So I figured she must have told her best friend who she works with, and who I have only met a couple of times, since Tiffany is in her building.
I managed to figure out her friend's email address, I emailed her and she's all over it for me!!! She so wants the two of us to get back together so she is glad to help me.
One hour, one day, one week, one month at a time. I feel pretty good that the woman I love will be back with me, and we will move to a new plane in our marriage.
Just going to keep thinking positive!
Good job with the sleuthing minkerman...stay positive and keep it up, things sound great!
Journaling:
Just a few pointers on DB'ing in my set of circumstances, especially through the darkest days.
- I had to feel out the "situation of the day" and modify my approach to suit it.
- there is no one-size-fits-all.
- some days I had to stay dim, other days I was able to talk or email multiple times, and she was responsive.
- usually, when we had been very close or very affectionate, she was distant or cool the next day. When this started to change, I felt we had made progress.
- I firmly believe that if I had "gone dark", I would have lost her...I had to keep that thread of a connection going.
- I did do some LRT, and that helped.
- I felt that when I pushed her or talked about our future early in the separation, she would pull back and get cool...sometimes I just couldn't help myself.
- she said that when we talked about OR, she felt that I was lecturing her. I learned from this.
It isn't over yet by any stretch - we are still living in separate houses. I just want to tell folks what has worked well for us so far.
I'm going to be 50 in 4 months, and I feel like I am 15 again!
BREAKING NEWS: I just got off the phone after a 30 minute convo with W. She said she told her mom that we were picking up the pieces to try again, and that her mom was happy for us. What a huge positive that was, to hear her say that!
That's great news, Minkerman. Yahoo !!!!
Now, remember the rollercoaster is still on the tracks, there will still be ups and downs, and those freakin' downs are still gonna hurt, it's still a long ride to go but, that said, you feel that good feeling NOW and enjoy this huge upswing! We're all rootin' for ya.
From someone who just entered the separation phase, your positive story gives me hope and pointers. Congratulations to you both.
Thank you cw68...good luck to both of you.
MM,
Things are going well, aren't they?
Some possible dangers yet to watch out for (you might not run into these, you might find totally new ones)
- Resentment. You may feel like you did all this work,suffered so much, tried so hard, that you deserve something. You may resent your W for putting your through this, needlessly (seemingly) and you may resent her for not honoring you enough for all the hard work you did.
- Regret. Regret that all the opportunities you may have seen opening up to you through your GALing maybe left behind when you are back with your W. Don't you want to take the new you out for a spin?
- Fear, that she could do it again, that the real issues haven't been fixed, addressed, that she won't communicate when she's unhappy and you'll be hit again.
Some ways of dealing with these things: Remember, she has been working hard during this time too, very hard, maybe harder than you. She has many fears too, among them, what if you don't forgive her?
I think your tips are really good. Every sitch is different. Going Dark, too much, isnt' right for everty sitch. Some generalities still apply though
- pushing about the R almost always pushes them away.
- GAL, positive attitude, is important to bust the D, and everyday, in a good relationship too.
Did you take the antidepressants?
My W and d12 are flying in this coming weekend. We're going to have a great time. I was able to get reservations at one of the best restaurants in town (in the country, I think) because my best friend is head waiter there. MM, It sounds like you like food and wine, so I thought you'd appreciate this. The restaurant is Fruition, you can check it out here if you're interested
http://www.fruitionrestaurant.com/ I'm a little nervous and excited. I'm 46 and feel like a teenager on a date too. Got to get a haircut, clean up the house, etc. This will be a much better valentine's day than last year.
Thanks for the advice, LN, I appreciate it a lot.
Today she was home sick with a cold, so I called her to ask how she was feeling. During the conversation, she asked "so what is going to be different this time after we get back together?" She kind of took me aback with that one!
So I went over the changes we have both made, how we are both so much better communicators than we were before, how we are obviously physically attracted to each other, and how we now understand why we have made the mistakes we have made. She agreed that those were all pretty positive changes, she was just wondering. Hmmm.
But then a major (to me) positive happened. I was driving home from work, and she called me. Out of the blue. No reason for the call, other than to just chat. So we kept it light, lots of laughter, and she said to enjoy my yoga class.
Felt pretty good after that.
Upon reflection, I guess it's good that she's asking questions...she wants to be sure as to what she's coming back to...and so do I! She is testing the waters, and although it makes me nervous, I think I get it.
Just a little dip on the rollercoaster, LN!
I am so incredibly committed to doing what I need to do, and should have always been doing, to make my marriage work. Once we reunite, I expect no less from her.
So, we were going to go to a hockey game on valentine's day. Now that she isn't feeling so good, I said I would come to her place and cook her a wonderful dinner. She said "dinner sounds nice". So we shall see. Wish Minkerman luck!!!
I have worked hard to give my W the space she craved, and it has paid off. Last night she called me as I was driving home and said, why don't we go out for sushi? I picked her up, we went to our favorite sushi bar, and then as I was driving her home she asked if I was coming up.
We ended up in about 3 hours of R talk...sure, it may seem non-DB, but in our sitch, the time was right.
We had a breakthrough in understanding how we both feel about ourselves and each other, and what has driven our changes.
We spent the night together, and this morning, she woke me up with a soft kiss and said "happy valentine's day". As we drove to work, she said she feels really good about where we are headed, and I said I feel confident that we are going to make it.
We are having dinner tonight for Valentines Day, and she is coming to "my place" (actually our place) Saturday night.
She told me a little while ago that she was 90% out the door, and couldn't imagine us together after what we had been through. Now she is committing to working on the marriage with me. All of the reaching out came from her.
It does happen, and I am so thankful for DB, DR, and the support I have received from this board.
It's still one day at a time, but now we have a goal to work toward. Happy Valentine's Day? YEAH IT IS!
sounds really great MM,
And R talks are definitely OK is she starts it and the time is right.
You are really peicing now.
If you have the time though, I'd be interested in what you and she talked about. I'm asking for selfish reasons. I have ideas of what was wrong with my M, but I'm not sure. I feel like I might be missing something important. How can things be so good now with my W when in October I was ready to say I didn't care if we stayed married or not.
I'm curious about your sitch too. What do you feel the problem was?
Truthfully MM, it almost seems like you're a plant from DB to be a success story. :-D
I'm sure it wasn't easy though.
Happy valentine's day
Truthfully MM, it almost seems like you're a plant from DB to be a success story. :-D
Now THAT'S funny! I only wish that it were true, then I wouldn't have had to go through all the pain. I wouldn't have wished that on anybody.
LN, when I have a bit of time (I'm at work right now), I will indeed post what we have talked about...hopefully it can help you and others.
Last night was like a dream...2 weeks ago, we were so far gone, and she is now coming back. I got quite a few ILY's, and yesterday in an email she ended it with xoxox...a first since October.
We are both feeling good about our future, and at the end of March when we move back in together, we will truly start piecing.
I look forward to switching forums
MM I want to be like you man!
Nice work Mink!
I am trying to get to where you are right now. My W and I have been doing a lot of texting over the past few days.
Agreed to dinner, then 3 day weekend, then she back off 3 day weekend and we are back to dinner next Thursday.
I need to let her drive the train but it is very tough for me. I am a take charge kind of guy.
When you feel like building on the positive moments, ask yourself "is what I am about to do going to bring us closer together, or push us further apart?"
This really helped me...whenever she pulled back, it was because I just HAD to send that last email, or make that last phone call, even though my conscience was telling me to let it hang, and leave her wanting more.
If she initially agreed to the weekend, then backed off, I'm thinking it's because she felt pressured; either by you suggesting the weekend, or something you said about it afterward. She may not feel you're ready for that step yet, and it is a big one.
My W is coming over to my (our) place for the weekend...so this is a big one for us, spending the weekend together. I will play it cool and make sure she feels no pressure at all. So far I think she is feeling comfortable...so I'm going to "stick with what is working" for us.
I'm by no means an expert, just saying what worked for me.
MM,
Stick with what works. I just had a great convo with my W best friend and it made me feel really good. For now, That works for me. Little steps.
BT
This is in response to LoginName's request for what was off-kilter in our marriage.
On the surface, it doesn't seem like much. In fact, when we reunite, I'm sure we will seem exactly the same to our family and friends. But to her, it was plenty.
Back when I had the affair, and we recommitted to each other, we did a bit of counseling, not much, maybe 4-5 sessions. We thought we had gotten to the bottom of the issues and could move forward. Not so. The counseling focused on issues that we now know to be not-so-relevant to our sitch at the time.
Anyway, my issues were actually all around low self-esteem, feeling unworthy of love, and treating my W as a mother figure, which I lacked in my life. In addition, over the years, my passion for life and living dwindled to the point where I was a boring, uninteresting bump on a log, and I dragged her down with me.
Many times, my bride told me she didn't like our life and that she was unhappy. I didn't want to talk about it, I was complacent.
After she left and I realized all my issues and where they came from (very painful BTW) I got to work. I realized I had to find how I had lost the 'authentic' me. I have done that, I have rediscovered my passion, and I am challenging myself like never before.
What got her attention and changed her thinking?
- I had sent her emails describing intense interactions at work. This was a change - recently, when she had asked me 'how was work', I just said "fine".
- I didn't purposely do this, it was quite innocent.
- She saw these interactions as being indicative of my reignited passion. This made me attractive to her. That was the day she decided to accompany me to the wine-tasting event.
- That night she invited me up, we ML, I stayed the night. No ILY's, just mindblowing sex, the first for both of us in 2 months.
- The big breakthrough came the night before valentines day. We were having a glass of wine and just talking...I told her that the biggest change for me came when I suddenly realized I didn't need her in order to go forward or be happy. I wanted her, but didn't need her.
- She was blown away. That's when we both realized that she was no longer a mother figure to me...she was my lover, whom I was passionate about.
- This also indicated that I was strong, not needy. I said it to her with confidence and conviction.
- Another big one was when she brought up that we may be moving too fast toward reconciliation...I said, yeah, I think that way too sometimes...and we proceeded to have a great convo about it. HUGE 180 for me, she had never seen this side of me.
So that's pretty much it. Subtle changes in me that made her shift her thinking. She now thinks we will be able to pick up the pieces and move forward together, based on these changes.
I thought it was MLC, and all about her. Nope.
She was actually just bored stiff in our marriage, and that part was all about me. I made the changes in my thinking, awareness, communication style and actions, and she decided to give us another shot.
Does that help explain it?
MMan,
Read the latest on your thread...wow, congrats! This is really great news, and it's not just a day of good news; seems like from everything you've been relaying, things are really looking up. That's so great that she has been testing out the waters because it speaks to a greater seriousness on her part. Excellent also the part of her being with you at your (your) place together.
I identify with your most recent post about becoming a bloody boring lump on a log. I think that's an important part of what has (not) gone on for me. Hmm. I will have to think about this, but it further motivates me on my own pursuit of GAL. I know my W has her own share of stuff, but your story helps give me a bit more of the much needed courage to keep working on making a stronger, more rounded me.
I smiled when I was reading your news, Minkerman. It's great to hear of this kind of a story in the midst of so much other hurt, pain, and confusion.
Best,
Purr
Keep working Mink and Purr. Stay on track!
BT - your thread locked!!
Quoted from my own post, a couple days back.....
My W is coming over to my (our) place for the weekend...so this is a big one for us, spending the weekend together. I will play it cool and make sure she feels no pressure at all. So far I think she is feeling comfortable...so I'm going to "stick with what is working" for us.
She left about 30 minutes ago (5pm Sunday evening). I'll give a play-by-play of what happened.
The last night I slept with my wife in 'our' bed was Dec 28th. She has visited the apartment twice since we separated, and we have not had any pajama parties here
We have been sleeping together over the past 10 days, at her place.
Anyway.
She texted me at 10am Saturday morning "I'm on my way". I went out and bought 2 bottles of wine and a red rose, which I placed in a vase on the coffee table in the livingroom. She arrived with a big smile and a hug and kiss. I was relieved to see that she didn't have second thoughts on staying over, since she brought her overnight bag. She told me right away that she felt "weirded out" by by coming here, but she was going to work through it.
We talked for a while and decided to go out for lunch, to our favorite burger joint. On the way she said "I'm going to be totally honest with you - I feel that we might be moving a bit too fast in this". I said "OK, let's talk about it" (big 180 for me). Over lunch I found that she felt she was being drawn back into the relationship, and being expected to commit, when she still felt she hadn't explored herself fully by living on her own. I reminded her that it was HER that started the dialog that brought us back together, and it was HER who had reached out every time we had gotten together over the past week. I suggested that perhaps she felt subconsciously that we
should recommit, and that maybe she should listen to her gut feeling. I said it in a gentle way, while holding her hand across the table. She said - "yeah, maybe you're right, I do tend to overthink things, especially after you have left. When you're here it feels so right, but when you go, I start questioning. I'm just scared, since this is a total turnaround for me from 2 weeks ago."
I totally get that - but I never realized how firmly set she was that she was moving on alone. She said she had left the door cracked open, but it was closing, not opening.
Anyway, we came back to the apartment after lunch and started working on a presentation she has to do at work on Tuesday. She had asked for my help, and I am happy to do it, since this is my strength. We worked hard on it, brainstormed like crazy, and came up with a great presentation...4 hours' work! She really appreciated my help and told me so.
The next couple of hours, we got into more R talk, and it was good. We talked about the things that both of us were scared about, and possible pitfalls of reuniting. There were very few we could come up with!
Then I ordered chinese food, and we had an awesome meal and cracked the 1st bottle of wine. More talk. In fact, we got into the 2nd bottle and almost finished it before heading to bed.
She was a little apprehensive about sleeping in our bed again, because she was in such a bad place emotionally the last time she slept there. She was sure she would wake up at 2am like she used to do when she was upset, and that scared her.
I lit a bunch of candles, we went to bed and made love like two old pros. Over an hour, a solid 10/10 for both of us. We went to sleep.
We both woke up at 2:15...arrgghh! Anyway, we took a different approach and ML again. That tuckered us out, and we woke again at 7am, with the sun shining right on our faces. Nice! What a good sleep.
While she showered, I cooked her breakfast. We had a wonderful morning, and she said she was feeling far more comfortable with how we were doing, and that her fears were starting to reduce. She is seeing the changes in me and liking them a lot. I said "the only reason you are seeing me like this is because we are spending time together". She agreed.
We went out to a pub for lunch, and talked some more (we have NEVER talked this much) and realized that our hopes and dreams for the future were the same.
She asked me to tell her why I had such a positive outlook for us. I said:
- we are very attracted to each other
- we want the same things out of life
- we love each other
- more importantly, we LIKE each other
- we communicate on a soulful level
- we have a lot of fun together
- I have made serious changes
I asked her the same thing. She said "I can't add anything to that - I agree with all of it".
I asked her if she felt pressured when I said "I love you". She said no, I like it. I get about a 50% return on it, that's why I asked. She does say it to me, unprompted, sometimes.
We came back to the apartment, gathered her stuff and we walked to her car. I told her that this time I wasn't sad that she was leaving, because I knew that we were going to go forward together, and that I would be patient with her. She said, "I know I am a handful, and I appreciate the patience". We kissed, and she left.
I never could have pictured us at this point two weeks ago, but here we are. Everyone's support here has been fantastic, and the DB process is a good one.
WOW, That is GREAT to HEAR!
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!
Super!
YAAAAAHOOOOOOOOO!
Mink, That sounds terrific!
THANK YOU! I am very happy, and I am continuing to be positive about where we are headed.
Thanks guys
Not too much to report today, we just this minute got off the phone (she called me, not vice versa). We talked about her big presentation to the Board of Directors tomorrow. I told her once again how much I am behind her in this, and she is very happy to be so well supported. She doesn't know it yet but she has flowers coming tomorrow morning, for luck.
I took a chance at the end of the call and said "love you lots"...she countered with "I love you too, MM", really sweetly.
One day at a time. Today's a good one.
...and the rollercoaster continues! Just a dip, not a vertical drop, mind you.
She called me as I was driving home and told me all about her big presentation to the Board Of Directors today. We chatted for probably 20 minutes.
The flowers appear to have been a hit...one of her co-workers stopped by her desk and asked if W was "dating her husband" and she said "looks like I am". She was laughing as she told me this. So they didn't make her uncomfortable. Another co-worker said "so he doesn't send you flowers on Valentines Day, but he surprises you a week later"...W said "yep, he's a sneaky one".
She ended up with "thanks so much MM for all your support". I thought I'd build on the positivity of yesterday's call and finished up with, "OK honey, talk to you soon, love you"...she said "OK, bye!" No ILY.
But, much more positive than negative so I won't dwell on it or overthink it. Hopefully we'll have the rest of our lives to pile on the ILYs!
We have a date night tomorrow. She doesn't know it but I'm taking her to a little French wine bar, judged the "best place to kiss" in our City.
Off to bed...'night all in DB Land.
you da man Mink. Your doin really well. Keep it up you are insperation for all of us.
Mink,
Inspiring to read your story...I wouldn't worry about the ILY part; seems like the big picture is good and things are settling on a firmer foundation. Great the way you've balanced out being reasurring without pressuring her.
Excellent work, MM! You are leading the way. I hope I may follow in those footsteps. Keep us posted.
Purr
Mink
Don't over do it with ILY stuff. My wife and I were big ILY people. Sometimes we would say it to each other, sometimes she would say it and I would not and vice-versa. It's no big deal.
If you over do the ILY stuff is starts to sound phony.
You are in my man. The worst thing you could do would be to start ovre thiking this sh*t.
Thanks guys, as always, I appreciate having all of you to bounce things around with.
So, last night was date night at the French wine bar.
It went really, really well. She started the R talk, so I went along. Here are some of her comments, [with my reponses in brackets]:
- When I am with you it feels so great, but the next day I start to question things again [maybe that's what you should concentrate on thinking about, then. As in 'what is it that makes me question things?']
- I think I question things because the more I see you, the more positive changes I am seeing - but later, I wonder if they are for real [the only way to know for sure is to spend time together, and start to live the changes with me] (she nodded...)
- I saw a lottery kiosk the other day - I wondered what I would do if I won a million - at this point I feel bad that I don't know the answer to that [I think that's perfectly normal, honey. You are somewhat confused right now and this is just part of it. You'd have to give me half the money anyways!] (she laughed pretty well at my joke
- I had totally lost ALL attraction to you - now it's the complete opposite - that scares me [it scares me too. But it is a positive thing!]
- I love how I can tell you anything now, and you don't shut down [that is one of my changes, and you know it's real because we are living it right now - I am not suddenly going to revert back - why would I?]
- I am going to need some freedom when I move back [I know. I will give you all the space you need, for as long as you need it] (She said she appreciated me doing that)
We talked about where we would like to live once back together. We'd like to live closer to the city.
We went back to "her" place, talked some more, went to bed, made love (still mind-blowing BTW) and fell asleep. We slept in a bit this morning and drove in together in the gorgeous sunshine.
Now, let's see if today is another one of the days where she "questions everything". I can handle it if so.
Pretty good night last night!
MINKER!!!!!!!
You da man!!!!!!
We all need to hear stories like this!!!! Great Job Man!!!!!!
I would give a million bucks to ML!!!!!
Thanks Tree. Like I keep saying...a day at a time. But, looking good so far.
"Pretty good night last night"??
I'd say so! Give her some space now. You know she needs time to think about last night and process her fears. She cannot have you pushing at this point.
Way to go!
minute by minute, day by day, week by week.
You are an insperation!
Yes, Ms L, space is the key now. I can't hook up with her anyway - she has a girlfriend coming over to visit tonight, her cousin Friday and her sister Saturday.
We might have brunch on Sunday (her idea), I don't know, still a few days away.
I'm not feeling as panicky as I was 2 weeks ago, because we are moving toward reconciliation now. I still feel some uncertainty, but I think it's just the gravity of the situation doing that to me.
Thanks for your comments everyone!
Hey MM,
Seems like you're doing really well with responding to her anxieties. Keep finding that balance of connection and room. I can appreciate that it must feel a lot easier to give space when there is a greater sense of the other person moving toward reconciliation. My WAW isn't near that point, so it requires a lot to manage the stress and anxiety of the unknown, and I've seen you've gone through a lot of that yourself.
Anyway, great job and keep us posted. I feel pretty down sometimes and it is great to read some positive stories like yours.
Purr
Thanks Bro. Did you read my first thread? I was in dark despair, and I have been in this for a shorter time than most. I simply cannot imagine what some of you are going through.
I am so acutely aware of my sitch now, that I am utterly determined not to screw it up or scare off my wife.
I was driving home from a meeting about 15 minutes ago. She called me as I was driving, to tell me about the visit she had with a girlfriend tonight. They talked all night about problems her GF was having in her relationship. Suddenly the GF said "I've talked all night about myself! What about your drama?" My lovely W said to her "my drama has all changed, there's really no drama now".
She said "good night sweetie" before hanging up.
Me feel good.
MM -
stay with it dude.
Stay cool.
They ALL take time to come around. She is peeking into the tent. Let her peek. Don't want to scare her off.
ALSO - keep in mind she may get spooked for some other reason. This would not be a surprise. Prepare yourself for it! If it happens, don't despair! Just think how far you have come. She may need a break. Don't over-think it.
Patience! Steady now! Stay the course! Keep positive! Keep those changes up!
Woo hoo!!!!! I am soooo happy for you.
I vote for Mink as the DBer of the year!
My MVP DBer!!!!!
I'll accept your nomination as DBer of the year, when my beautiful bride is back in our home, and somewhere down the road she tells me "this is the best thing we could have done, and I am so happy".
Until then - as SPM says, I'm playing it cool as a cucumber.
We have a long way to go still
You'll stay cool, I know you will.
Plan for a long haul.
Every read the book
Endurance: Shackleton's Incredible Voyage ?
I love that book. Here's a guy who led an expedition to Antarctica, planned for a couple months, but was gone for more than 2 years. The ship was crushed in the ice. Yet the expedition lost not a single member of his crew. 2 years!
We all may need more endurance than we might think.
Mink,
I think it is going to be work for the rest of your life. Trust and communication are hard to recover when you have been thru so much.
Tree
How would you have known that???? YES, I have read that book!
Weird!
Yes, I am in for the long haul, and W knows this and feels comforted by it. A few days back, she said "you are standing guard on our marriage". I said "yes hon, I am a rock". She smiled and said "that's good".
Mink, YES !
THAT IS WHAT SHE WANTS !
SHE WANTS YOU TO BE THE ROCK.
I know you can do this.
You are correct sir
I am trying to pick up on the subtle clues she is leaving, as to what she thinks is important. My theory is that she will communicate these needs, and not communicate things that, to her, are not important.
I am, in a non-obvious way, hanging on her every word.
Another positive step: As of 3 days ago, on MSN chat she is calling me by one of her pet names for me.
W just called...asked if it was Ok to come over and wash her car. I said honey, this is your house too...you don't have to ask! "Well, I just thought....." she said.
Then she suggested we get lunch..."Sounds great" says I.
She didn't sound too cheerful this morning - she paused at the end of every sentence, as if she expected me to say something. I hope it's not going to be one of "those" days.
I know, I'm overthinking. But wish me luck anyway.
I'll post later.
Mink - It is obvious that she uses the "wash the car" thing as an excuse to get to see you. She misses you and wants to take you to lunch. Enjoy.
I predict you two will be living under the same roof very soon.
Fish
Mink - It is obvious that she uses the "wash the car" thing as an excuse to get to see you. She misses you and wants to take you to lunch. Enjoy.
I predict you two will be living under the same roof very soon.
Fish
Mink - It is obvious that she uses the "wash the car" thing as an excuse to get to see you. She misses you and wants to take you to lunch. Enjoy.
I predict you two will be living under the same roof very soon.
Fish
Fish, I heard ya the first time!!!
We had a SPECTACULAR day. Never did wash her car. Talked and talked and talked some more. Went out to our neighborhood pub for lunch, sat in the early spring sunshine, came back to our place, she had a nap, I woke her up, we ML, went out for dinner later, then I dropped her off about an hour ago.
She texted me on the way home telling me how much she "enjoyed our day".
She told me she would probably start moving her stuff back here about March 15.
I can see light at the end of the tunnel!!!!! This is so awesome, I can't believe it!!!
YES YES YES
The old "wash the car" ruse.
heh heh.
Mink, you are the ROCK. Be the Rock, man.
Be the rock.
Look, I don't want to be the cloud on your silver lining. But sometimes I can't help it. No seriously, sometimes they pull back after getting close. If this happens, will you worry? or will you be the rock? If the wind whips up and the waves come crashing down, what does the rock do?
Be the rock.
Mink - That is awesome!!!
All you need to do is play it cool for another 2 weeks or so!
You can do it and we are here to help you.
Fish, I like your optimism, but getting the WAS home is nto the end of the drama.
I think Mink has to be the rock, forever.
He has to be solid, for the duration.
She'll come home and they'll have good times. And then she may have second thoughts, doubts. She may get skittish. It's natural. Mink needs to stay solid for a long time. He's THE MAN, though, he can do it.
Oh, I will be the ROCK, make no mistake
We are this close - no way I am going to do anything to screw it up.
Last night when we were getting ready to leave our apt to go to her place, then out for dinner, I said, "so do I pack a bag?" (thinking I might stay over). She said, "I feel awful saying this because I don't want you to take it the wrong way...but I really just want to crash after dinner, then sleep late" (she has had a horrible chest cold since mid-Dec and it has knocked the stuffing out of her). I said "no problem, there's no wrong way to take that...I want you to get better, so sleep is what you need".
We did the dinner, had an absolutely wonderful time, then I dropped her off, we both said ILY and she got out of the car. She stopped halfway to her door, turned around, smiled and waved. So sweet.
This morning she sent me an email:
Slept thru to 6:15, felt good but am still a bit tired.
My reserves aren't back to where I'd like to see them....
Guessing that will take a bit of time. Thanks for understanding last night. I'll be in bed early tonite and hoping that tomorrow I'll feel perkier.
So, she appreciated my not pushing her on staying over. The way I see it, after the middle of March, we'll be sleeping together for the next 30 years....so what's one lousy night?
MM
There ya go!
This will take time, Mink. You know it will.
It may take even longer than you want.
But you are patient, you know what you want, you know what you need to do.
YES!
MINK you ER the MAN -
Awesome stuff dude.
Listen.. you and I are in similar spots and you need to play it cool. Stop suggesting the little slumber parties. If she wants you to sleep over she will ask.
I learned from Jody today that we are in STAGE 2 - FRIENDSHIP. If we are cool and play it right, we will make it to STAGE 3 - ROMANCE. That's the promised land baby. That's where all of the action starts.
HOWEVER - If we play it wrong, we risk a trip back to STAGE 1 - ANGER.
After months of pain and hard work do not risk going back to STAGE 1.
We are going to rise from this sh*t like a phoenix!
Good advice, fish. Cool it with the sleepovers.
I think W and I are opening the door to Stage 3, so I don't want to get my nose bloodied by that door as I get thrown back through it!!
The promised land, indeed. So close, I can taste it.
Journaling:She's in a BAD mood today...having a bad day at work. I talked to her this morning and she wasn't too talkative. Of course my insecure mind thinks it's all about me
But she is the type that places a lot of her identity in her career - which is fine, it gives her a lot to strive for - but when things are going well at work, life is good. When things are not going well at work, she can tend to project that onto her life.
I can't see her tonight due to my yoga class.
I can't see her Wednesday, our daughter is coming over to visit me.
I invited her out for a glass of wine Thursday, but she declined, she is going to the Art Gallery with her girlfriend.
Maybe Friday we'll catch up!
I'm thinking about not suggesting anything for this coming weekend, to give her some space and freedom. Why? Well, next wknd is her birthday, I'm taking her out to dinner and we're staying overnight in a nice hotel. The following wknd is when she is thinking of moving back home. So this is really her last alone weekend in 'her' place.
My feeling is that she may panic a bit and push the move back a week to Easter.
On a more positive note, we had a nice phone call last night, we discussed selling our place and buying a new one. She seems quite enthused about it. I'm all over it as well.
But - we shall see. I'm keeping my PMA as best I can, but it is up and down!
Why is it that we can't hang onto positive thoughts as easily as negative ones?
Go Mink....Sounds like you are doing great.
Those negative thought keep sneaking in. I am battling them myself.
Keep that PMA man. Just think of a few of your favorate things. There are a lot of people in this world in a lot worse shape then you. Be thankful brother. Your doin spectacular and i wish I was where you are.
Cheers brother and keep your chin up.
Well I was right, I was pushing too hard.
She told me to lighten up just a little...she is feeling smothered. That is a BAD word. I will totally back off. Wow, it's amazing how little it takes to make them skittish.
She was nice, she just said "it's such a big change for you - just let the pendulum swing back a bit".
I was fine, I said "thank you for telling me before I made a complete fool of myself! It's OK, I'm not hurt, I really appreciate it!"
I think that reinforced to her once again, that she can say ANYTHING to me and I won't sulk or shut down...I can and will communicate. It was an opportunity for me to take the high road.
Hopefully just dodged a bullet.
You have a lot to be happy for, so keep up the good work.
dodged a bullet?
I think you passed a test.
On the smothered comment, You turned a potential negative into a positive. I think it's all good.
I like your attitude, mink!
Thanks SPM, I needed that.
MM -
stay with it dude.
Stay cool.
They ALL take time to come around. She is peeking into the tent. Let her peek. Don't want to scare her off.
ALSO - keep in mind she may get spooked for some other reason. This would not be a surprise. Prepare yourself for it! If it happens, don't despair! Just think how far you have come. She may need a break. Don't over-think it.
Patience! Steady now! Stay the course! Keep positive! Keep those changes up!
Woo hoo!!!!!
This is exactly what happened today. SPM, you can read the future! I'm not worried, just a minor setback. She sure dialed me in tonight!
Back to being The Rock, with the occasional light hearted phone call or email.
Yeah, yeah - stay with it. Stay witrh it!
Minkerman, this is great. I just caught up on your last couple of weeks and good job! Congratulations for staying the course, doing what's been working and -- most importantly -- knowing what doesn't work and having the strength to not go there anymore.
Mink - I am in a similar situation, but I have not pushed.
The little bunny has retreated back into the hole to think things through a bit. That's cool.
I have had limited contact with W since Sunday, just some text messaging. She texted me yesterday to re-schedule dinner from last night (Tues) to tonight (Weds). My texts back.. "sure," or "no problem." I then execute the GAL playback - called some buds, went out for a nice dinner, played some cards and smoked a cigar. W called during dinner and I did not pick up. She had our D leave a message, but I really felt that she was checking up on me.
Piecing is a bitch. You want to just say... we are in love, we have a great life, let's put this bullshit behind us. Unfortunately we are "wired" differently than our spouses. We must march at their pace or we risk heading back to STAGE 1.
This is just a lull, right it out. You need to really give her some space, let her make the next move.
Fish
Exactly right on every single point, fish.
It is so helpful having people in similar situations - we are truly not in this alone.
Thanks to everyone looking in on my thread!!
I'm going to start a new thread...this one is getting close!
It will be called:
Minkerman is so close to piecing that he can TASTE it!
Keep up the good wok guys no matter how bad my sitch your stories give hope.