Hey everyone! Well, ole chatty cathy here has locked another one. Recap:
BF unhappy since last May, but would only say "I'm tired". He became more withdrawn since his Dad died 2 years before, but by last August, he looked depressed. Late August he muttered that he was unhappy and wanted "space". We talked for 2 days and then he wouldnt anymore. 2 weeks later, he moved out for 2 weeks as he said he "wasnt sure we had a future together". I was very shocked as I had no idea it was this serious. He refused to discuss it at all. He said, its my life and my desicion to make, I dont want to be influenced. A week away from me and he broke his wrist, so he came home and I cared for him for 6 weeks. We got on fine, but no mention of the decision he had been mulling over. He still refused to talk. He went back to work and then 3 weeks later, on November 2nd, he came home and announced the following...
I'm not depressed, I havent got depression, its me and you, I dont love you anymore, my feelings have changed for good and I'm leaving you. I cant explain or give reasons, this is just the right thing for me. I know its selfish and its the opposite of what you want, but I'm 100% sure this is right for me. I'm absolutely certain. I know, deep, deep down that my feelings have changed. I've got more confidence now where I didnt have any before. I just want to draw a line under it and move on, put the past behind me. I'd rather start afresh with someone new than try and fix it. My feelings have changed, these things happen, not all love lasts forever. This is all my doing, I really dont think it has anything to do with you, how you behaved or the way you are, please dont blame yourself or beat yourself up. He said he wasnt depressed and isnt going to just snap out of it. In fact, he emailed me to say that.
Fast forward to March and he finally admits that he IS depressed, that he probably had been for some years (as you know he said) and that he is on antidepressants and is going for counselling. He told me all of this on Thursday...then went skiing with a bunch of mates. Back Sunday.
I'm feeling nervous about him coming back tommorow. I've been looking at my chart and...bad news...I have a triple Saturn transit coming up opposing my Sun. This is not good! My BF has been under Saturn transits that have tipped him into depression, and those dont move away for good until August - and thats when my Saturn transit kicks in ! Great! I just had a testing time for the previous year. Damn planets :-)
I feel good about my cinema idea. I'm beginning to think, what will be will be, and I have learnt SO much about myself through all this and realise I was deluded to previously think I was a pretty sorted out person. I can see exactly where I went wrong in my R (and definetly where he has gone wrong, he has been so fearful of really letting go and letting himself be loved as essentially he feels unlovable and doesnt love himself).
Ali x
______________
Me: 36 H: 34
T: 9 years
IDLYA: 2 Nov 07
Own flat: 26 Jan 08
will he reconnect?my sitch 1my sitch 23 months onany regrets?friends now?4 months ondepression confirmed!
Ali,
This is unbelieveable--wow, you have so nailed it almost exactly what my W. has said and how she has presented. I know I've said that before, but this summary is incredible!
I'm convinced there is an MLC training school out there that our WAS's have attended and graduated from--with honours.
I'm quite a bit more optimistic about your sitch and BF here. The main thing is that it is so significant he is getting medical and counselling intervention. He is able to name the depression piece also, which starts to help him identify that this is a lot about his own experiences. Remember that when people are depressed, they see the world through a distorted lens, and that when they recover and heal through it, things become a lot more balanced. I'm willing to bet if he sticks with things, he's going to be able to be more vulnerable with you, not less.
I for one hope that he is able to make progress so he can start to see how much he is missing out on with you!!!
I think it's also healthy that you are taking some room for yourself to reflect on things, like what you would need from him also.
Hang in there, Ali. I don't think this is done yet.
Purr
Wow, really Purr!?? I think you are my twin in another life or something! Actually, I was wondering if you were a Piscean. The latest song lyrics you posted would point to alot of Piscean planets in your chart!
Did your W say all these things too? She is also teary and weepy and I think, struggling more than she lets on to you. Yes, I was amazed that he fell apart so quickly without me propping him up as I had done the past decade. I just wish he would come home, so I can just be there for him, even if we are still not together and he sleeps in the spare room or something. The biggest factor to help you beat depression is a loving R. Ho hum! I can see he had to leave me to get to this point though, so that is positive. And I have learnt so much and snapped out of so many bad behaviours and thats positive too. In fact, I think this is all positive and we could have a solid and happy future..if only he would come back !! Oh well.
Its Sunday...I'm expecting him to be back in our hometown sometime this evening I guess. He said he'd let me know when hes back there...so we'll see if he texts me this evening. Nervous!
Still thinking about doing the brown-black hairdye, but I'm not sure, I'm a bit pale and I may end up looking like a necrophiliacs dream date! Although the plan is to then try tonging it, a bit like...
Katie MeluaAli x
(((((((Ali)))))))
You are sounding a lot better! I think he is going to need space for a while, but he knows you are there. Patience!
How dark is your hair now? I can see being a bit leery of the black dye, though if there is still a touch of brown I think it is ok. Just black strikes me as a bit Elvira ish! Witchlike!
No harm using a bit of white magic now and then...
K
I put a spell on you...
Hey guys..yes, well my hair is mid browny reddish at the moment (more brown than red though), so it would be a dramatic change! Its not black, or blue black as they call those dyes, it is brown black, but yes it could end up looking a bit witchy as opposed to bewitching!! I need to think about it.
I'm not so sure I am doing that well, but thanks Jeff! Having a bit of a lonely day. Everyone is with family and friends, but I'm sat here alone. My parents havent even called! They are very wrapped up in one another and thats why it was so hard when my BF left. I got unconditional love from him. Says alot that I am here by myself when I could be home for the weekend with them, but they end up shouting at me (and each other) whenever I do go home, becuase anger is normal for them. Not all the time, there are laughs too!
My Dad was angry at my BF for abandoning me here in this situation after giving up my career and home. But it wasnt his fault, that was my choice (although I did it with the assumption we'd be together!). But since he knows he's depressed, he offered to talk to him as a father, which is very sweet. I need to tell my BF this sometime, as my Dad meant alot to him and so that he knows he is still accepted by my family.
I wonder if he will contact me at all ...Feeling a bit worried to be honest, on tenderhooks.
Ali
Ali,
You are killing me!
Just when I get caught up w/ your sitch, you close up another thread. Oh, well. I've found you again and I agree w/ everyone that you are doing very well.
Your new question of "will he reconnect?" is a good one. The unfortunate thing is nobody knows the answer, not even your BF right now. All you can do is continue on working on yourself and let things happen as they will. As Jeff said, patience is your key. In fact, it is the key for us all.
I was hoping to comment on something Kalni said in your last thread:
We love them, want them back and we decided we will not date, have sex, flirt even. Can anybody explain to me WHY is that? Why can't we have some fun in the meantime? WHY, WHY, WHY?
Essie responded w/ the dangers of getting into an EA which would mean your DB would be basically finished as you'd have a lot of trouble getting back on course. I completely agree with her.
If you want to date, have fun, even have sex, you can, but you absolutely can not allow yourself to get emotionally involved as long as you are still holding out hope that you'll be able to save (or in my case) re-do your marriage at any time in the future.
However, I will say that if you can keep emotions out of it, then go ahead. I've thought a lot about it myself, but I'm very careful to figure out what I'm looking for. I would want companionship and someone to do something fun w/ now and again. If I do start to go out, I'd be careful to keep expectations low and would stop and closely have to re-evaluate the relationship if anything would appear to be building.
So, to all of us out there, it is a very slippery slope, but it is one that we've all considered at least once, I'm sure. Do we do it or not? The answer will completely depend on how strong we are emotionally. If we can keep it at the level it is and not allow ourselves to get sucked in as an attempt to heal our broken hearts, then there is nothing wrong with it. But, if we're not strong enough to do this, then we should all avoid it at all costs.
Just my $0.02 on the subject for all the ladies (and us few men) to ponder as we continue to work through this w/ friends in cyber-space, but alone w/ ourselves on a daily basis.
Hang in there everyone. We'll get things done one way or another.
Hey, Ali. I'm not sure I jacked the thread or not b/c this subject was discussed by a lot of people after K brought it up. If I did, sorry about that. I guess the statement (I forget who posted it) of "this is where everyone just wants to hang out") is pretty accurate about this thread.
It is the place to be!
RTL
(((((Ali)))))
If you ended up looking like Katie, it couldn't be an awful thing!
RTL, I will join your little hijack!
I think you are really spot on about the slippery slope. The other thing that I always run into is consideration for the "innocent" party that gets involved. How can you be really honest and fair to them, if you are still committed to the relationship that brought you here? That said, if an actual real life situation presented itself, all of the previous consideration might go out the window. Which is why I generally have to say, you are better not to put yourself in situations where those "opportunities" are likely to present themselves. Of course, none of this prevents me from flirting a bit with my good friends here! Hi (((((Ali)))))! And (((((Lisa)))))! And (((((Kalni)))))! Does wonders for the self image!
I am here. You are not alone. Hit me with all your superanalysing staff, I can take it. I am a "monster of patience" as we say nowdays...
Come on, I am challenging you...
K
And (((((Michelle)))))! Geeze, there are so many!
Haha! Thanks guys, Jeff, RTL, and Kalni, "you are not alone", I really appreciate that! Thankyou so much.
Well.. I did notice the debate on whether WE should get an OP, and I find it quite funny its on my thread (and debate away! Fill your boots!)..but I for one am categorically NOT looking, NOT open to it, NO way hosay. This is unusual for me (you've all heard my R history, talk about impulsive!), but I just know insinctively that I dont want to, nor would I meet anyone else. I am totally committed to my BF whilst I am waiting to see if he wants to come back. If it becomes clear he doesnt, or meets someone else, that will be really hard for me. Then there will be a real period of mourning...followed by some acceptance hopefully and "putting it to bed"..then and only then would I consider thinking about being open to meeting someone new. But, I dont see that I would anyway, because I hardly leave the house and the only people I know here are M !
I did talk to my C about all this and I said people often do hook up with someone, casually, but its not for me..she said it was a coping mechanism that some people use to deaden the pain they are in, or loneliness, or rejection, or whatever! It is valid for some people and it works, but if I have already made the choice that it wouldnt work for me, that is probably healthy.
Anyway, I am still in love with my BF, so I would consider it cheating and I couldnt bare to do it. I'd be heartbroken if he met anyone as well, I wouldnt be able to keep DBing if he does, I would have to give up and gracefully retire! But if he met someone this year, after we'd been separated for many months, I would consider that a new R for him, as opposed to an OW. Thats becuase he didnt leave me for an OW, he was depressed. I still cant get my head around whether he really did leave me BECUASE he was depressed, or if he left me becuase he DLYA and then got depressed (more depressed) being by himself. Hmm. Kalni !???
Still wondering if he will text me later... :-)
Thanks for keeping me all company! It sure is a bit lonely down here in the toe of England !
Ali x
Does it really matter Ali? It's like if the chicken made the egg or the egg the chicken. The result is what we need to tackle here (is it tuckle or tackle?).
Some people go through crisis inside the R and the other person never realises it. I went through a crisis 2 years ago. I thought my H was not able to make me happy. A couple of months later I told him, I shared it with him. It took him an email to get me back on track. He wrote me a 10 lines email and I was calm and content again. He never told me anything. I had to question him again & again before he actually told me he was unhappy.
Different people have different reactions. The point is you can't dwell about the past. There is no right or wrong. He did what he felt he had to do. Maybe if he reacted differently you could have spared yourselves the heartbreak but he couldn't, he didn't want to.
What you do now is what matters. I know you feel that if he would come back it would be easier for him to get over this depression, but he needs to at least have some time by himself, accept his problem, deal with it and then ask clearly for your help.
Don't pursue him. Put yourself in his shoes. As he is now. How would you feel if Ali was anxious and worried and overwhelming? You would probably like it but you wouldn't know what to do with all the feelings. You would probably like the attention but you would keep the distances not to lose control. You would feel you would need to straighten your self first before allowing yourself to accept the love Ali is offering. Guilt has got to be there. What have I done? has got to be there, why am I in this mess? has to got to be there. He can't deal with all of this now. He needs to start his "spring cleaning" slowly and carefully. And he has made some brave steps already. You need to be there, his guardian angel, from a distance.
That's what I would do.
K
Hey Ali,
Ummmmm- what K said. Especially the last paragraph.
If you're in England's toe, I think I might be in it's bottom!
I'm just gearing myself up to watch the last installment of Wille's Wonky Choclate Factory- I love that program and all the close-ups of the chocolate. Hmmmmmmmm
L.xx
Thanks Kalni and Lisa...I know it doesnt pay to look back and get frustrated and think what if, or if only. I also had to question him again and again before he stopped just saying "I'm tired".
I think he feels terribly guilty. The thing he has said most often since this began is "I'm sorry" (it becomes empty after a while! He could say..I'm sorry I ended it a week after your beloved cat died, or I'm sorry I wasnt able to come to you when I was unhappy but just had to leave - something specific at least!)
No text from him and its getting late. I have had a hard day today, thinking the worst, feeling alone, regretting the past year or so. And its not as if I didnt see this coming!!! I talked to him about it back in 2004. I saw it. I had a premonition. I wish I could see what happens next !!! Antenae must be broken ;-)
I like what you said about giving him time and space to fix himself and just wait and be there as his gaurdian angel. I worry though that he will still feel IDLYA, even when his depression lifts, I worry that too much time will have gone by, too much water under the bridge, I worry that he will stick to his decision, as he said, he hadnt taken it lightly.. I worry that he will meet someone else, I worry I cant win him back...
I wish I had your faith Kalni, you are so strong. I feel so weak minded compared to you...how do you do it?!
Ali xx
PS: Yes I liked that program too !
I CHOOSE to believe we'll end up together. I repeat it to myself, by myself even dyring my low points again and again. I use all available tricks to get my mind off the divorce. I pray, I type here, I think of our good times, I imagine the good times of the future, I just have faith (most of the times). I play it "crazy", it helps me. I told you before, he is not going to drive me crazy, I will drive him nuts...
K
Ali,
Hold on, my dear. Kalni (as usual) has had some great words of wisdom for you in her post above. I think you have done a super job of trying your best and looking for some balance in this very difficult situation. You can certainly feel good about him getting help for himself...it's a big step in the direction of him taking responsibility for himself, which was previously missing in this.
I completely understand that feeling of waiting and wondering, especially if the trip has changed anything for him one way or the other. It is nerve wracking, but I think you are strong even though you feel like jell-o sometimes.
I am thinking of you. ((((Ali))))
Purr
Ali,
TIME IS ON YOUR SIDE. I really believe it is highly possible that a massive miracle is happening in that BF is getting help, for himself, by himself. I think he needs time to heal himself and investigate himself.
For example... today I was doing some heavy duty grad school reading about Jung.
Forgive me, you probably know this already, since you are a smart astrologer!! But I was excited to learn that Jung believed that a man, when he does not know his own soul, projects his ideas of his soul onto his beloved. This is very problematic because then the man does not have to understand his own soul. He also cannot experience the reality of who is partner truly is. In order to understand his own soul and experience the reality of his parter, usually the man has to withdraw from the relationship, and sometimes much of the world, also, in order to introspect and find a new deeper healthier understanding of his own true deepest inner self. Only then is true love and connection possible, after he moves beyond the unconscious and easily disappointed projections and assumptions.
It is highly possible that what BF is going through right now could be the most amazing healing experience of his entire life. But healing does not always feel good.
Love him enough to give him this space to go on his own journey. Trust in your connection and your own growth and persistence. Believe in your ability to love him and be loved by him. And don't forget to take faith in your own many charms!!!
I had a lonely easter too, Ali, but I am beaming you good energy from the other side of the atlantic...
((HUGS))
t
Hi Ali - I had a lonely Easter too. Will be glad to be back at work! I am determined that this coming Xmas will not be a repeat, I must have friends to hang out with, otherwise its just depressing.
T - that's very cool about Jung's theory. I hope H is withdrawing to examine his soul (but I think he might be spending time partying and wakeboarding, and building remote control cars so that he can stay busy and not have to think about deep things..... boys!)
Hiya... Kalni, thanks, I have been trying to visualise him back home..bit difficult, does anyone else have this problem - I was trying to remember what it was like to wake up next to him, but I struggled a bit..it seems like such a long time ago.
T - thankyuo, I like a bit of Jung! Thanks for the vote of confidence there. I think you are right, the bit I am not sure of though..when we are not ourselves and depressed and not living mindfully, do we choose partners that are all we deserve at that point? And when we wake up and get to know ourselves better and heal, do we want a new partner to match that new self? An astrologer told me that it pleased him to see that becuase of the phenomonal synastry between us, my BF personality had "split open" within and as a result of our R (as in, this is a good thing and a healing crisis). I was the only one who got to "peep behind the curtain". Initially, he panicked and built the wall back up thicker and higher around himself as a result of this, and I can only hope C will make him see this.
Thanks for your kind words Essie and T, sorry you had lonely easters too! Its rubbish isnt it.
And Purr...thankyou for thinking of me, that means alot to me! We are parallel twins I think !
So...got a text message from him this morning at 10.45, which is good as thats earlier than I expected, but it only said, Hi Al, are you in our hometown.. which is bad. That was it. Hence, I wasnt sure how to reply, and bearing in mind he has depression, whether to ask if he was ok or not, or read anything into such a short disappointing message, or not. I can only assume he didnt have a great week and is tired and hungover. But the opposite could be true. Or 27 other possible scenarios, so...
I wrote back saying no I wasnt, so I didnt need a lift back ta and that I hoped his week wasnt too much of a mare and that he managed to ski a bit and stay upright.
No reply from him.
Hmm..maybe I should have asked him a question, or how he is at least. Like you would a friend, who had depression and had just got back from being away. Its confusing this..he's depressed and needs friends to show him love and care, but I am trying to DB him...
Ali x
Well, he never replied. I have been upset to be honest. I was expecting a little something from him today, not this. I have no way of knowing if hes had a terrible week and cant face contacting me (or anyone), or has had a good week, or has had time to think and decided to back off again, or not deal with me. I dont know. I had high hopes for this week. Kalni, if you are reading this, Jupiter is our "ruler" so this is a big week for Pisceans (for Lisas H too!), but also for all signs:
There's a massive link between the mighty planets Jupiter and Uranus this week. Because these two move slowly, they link up rarely. And as with nearly everything in life, their rarity makes their meetings more important.
Among other things, Jupiter is the planet of "lots of" while Uranus is the planet of "radical turnarounds and sudden reversals".
Put these together, and there's extra room in all our charts for something amazing to happen - eg: for something which was stuck to shift, or for a lucky break to come to us.
...and Uranus is right over my Sun (and right over your Hs Moon Lisa!). So thats a direct hit. So.. if I dont hear back from him, should I text again to ask if he is ok and if his week was ok? Or just leave it?
Ali
_______________
Me: 37 H: 34
T: 9 years
IDLYA: 2 Nov 07
Own flat: 26 Jan 08
Hi Ali,
I think it's a good thing that he asked if you were in hometown.. means he was thinking of you and was likely going to offer you a ride should you need one. Even in his depressed state your BF is still thinking about you.. This is a GOOD THING!!!
W2G
Ali,
I am reading. Let's see how it turns out. Leave it. Leave it. You can do it, can't you? You ve been through worse dark periods with him the last weeks. I am SURE he will contact you.
One small remark : you keep bringing up this Depression issue he has. And I know it is BIG (of an issue). You know how I said for me the diagnosis and him "letting you in" was a major step. But please be careful not to treat him as being sick and helpless. I wouldn't like that, I wouldn't like to feel pity in your voice. It would kill me. And it would bring out "the fixer" in you which could easily be misinterpretated to you being controlling (of his feelings, his way of handling this, etc)
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
K
Hey Ali,
I agree with K- leave it and don't text. It's great that he asked you where you were- he was obviously thinking about you, which is great. but if he was your friend who'd just got back from a holiday and hadn't responded to your text would you send another to ask if the friend was OK?
I've been looking this afternoon for a post that RCR wrote that I read a while ago about DBing the MLCer, or depressed spouse, and it was about being supportive and showing that you are a safe haven for them, but not pursuing in any way. I'll attach it to my thread and mark it for you when I find it (or post it here if you'd prefer?). The point being, I think, that the MLCer or depressed spouse is on a journey and trying to find something within themselves. As such there isn't much that you can do to speed the journey up- the best bet is to be strong and to pave a path for their return.
Hope you're OK otherwise. Don't be too down about the lack of response- remember to detach!
L.xx
Hello..well, I wasnt taking it as that big a deal he texted, we had kind of arranged he would bring me back from there, down here, and as it is a 4 hour drive and Easter Monday, it'd been pretty mean of him to either forget, or not bother to contact me! So he had no choice really. Anyway, I didnt end up going home.. damn, I should have !!! Stupid me, I just realised, I would have had the chance to be in the car with him for 4 hours nearly and hear all about his holiday and see how he was. This wsa kind of offered, to give me a lift back, I should've gone home and taken up his offer! I am such an idiot. Plus I have been stuck here for 4 days on my own feeling lonely.
Anwyay..good point Kalni, I was wondering how to play this too, as I am worried about him and I am the only one who listens (and not tries to fix, or just get embarressed and say, you'll be ok! ) but on the other hand, no I dont want to seem pitying, I know he couldnt stand that either. Its hard to know how to play it! Thats if I get a chance... he never did text me back. I have this strange feeling that its not fair! Its silly I know.
Thanks Lisa..I have been trying to find threads where the WAS has depression, so thanks for that!
Ali
Ali,
I agree w/ the crowd -- let it sit for a bit more. You are fine and he'll contact you shortly. Give him a day or so and then if nothing, then send a text about some simple, casual subject, not about how he's doing. That will give him the chance to open up to you and not feel pressured.
However, based on your history, I'm pretty sure he'll be sending you something shortly.
RTL
PS - Hey, on another note, do you get Good Friday and Easter Monday off as national holidays in the UK? As a history teacher I'm curious b/c England is protestant, not Catholic. I'm not much of a religious studies expert, but if you do get them off, does that mean when the Church of England was spun off the Catholic Church, they took the importance of the cross and Christ's ascention w/ them as part of the new church doctrine? Again, this is as a historian who grew up Methodist, so it is new to me. It seems logical, but I just don't know enough about the Church of England's roots, I guess. Ok, enough religious history questions on this thread. Sorry.
Sorry RTL, I'm not big on religion! No, England defo not Catholic. C of E is a kind of catch all, means nothing to most people to be honest. Yes they're both bank holidays though!
Well you were right, he just texted me ! He said he had a good time actually (wasnt expecting him to say that!) that he nearly fell out with one of the guys as he was so lazy, but he didnt (which is good, he must be feeling a bit better if he kept his cool) and then he said "Are you ok?" - eek !! I never know how to answer this question on the odd occassion he has asked me.
Does he really want to know, or he is being polite? If I were honest, I'd say, no, I'm not, I'm lonely and I miss you and would sell my own grandmother, if I still had one, just to see you. I'm guessing I shouldnt say any of that. Dont know what to say, really I dont. I havent been up to much either (eating Ginger Nuts, going to Chavda, oh and I cleaned out my tropical fish tank today...but nothing exciting to report there).
Um, seriously, there doesnt seem to be a good way to answer that other than the usual "I'm ok" (which is a lie) or just ignore it?
We TOLD you so.
See? (I sound like my mom) No time for honesty here. Make him feel responsible for you on top of everything else...?
Just say "I am ok, busy doing staff around the house(not a lie)".
K
(((((Ali)))))
Kalni answered your question, and got it right again!
So, I will ask a quesiton...
What kind of fish do you have?
I have one gold fish for 4 years now. He is very fat, gets fed 4-5 times a day and he doesn't like his water changed often... Weird fish, huh?
I have a red tailed shark! He is 3 1/2 years old now. And 2 gouramis (i think, well they are turquoise blue) some leopoard Danios and striped Danios and a spotty catfish that has a tail like a paper doily - cant remember its name. Just realised one of my fish has Dropsy! Says to get antibiotics from a vet, which sounds quite a grand thing to do for a little fish. Do you have a tank Jeff? It was fun moving it to Cornwall ;-/
Havent replied to his text yet, but thanks Kalni, I was tempted to say it was "a bit quiet here" but I wont then !
Ali
We do have a tank! We've had one, or more, off and on since the first year we were married.
I like red tailed sharks! While we were in England we "inherited" one from a friend who had a tank and returned to the states. It was HUGE! Gouramis are cool, too! Do your danios like to jump? We have had them escape, at times! We've got some guppies, and assorted tetras right now, as well as a plecostamus, and some catfish to slean things up. Moving a tank, even just within the house, is great fun!
Sorry Ali- quick hijack for RTL
PS - Hey, on another note, do you get Good Friday and Easter Monday off as national holidays in the UK? As a history teacher I'm curious b/c England is protestant, not Catholic. I'm not much of a religious studies expert, but if you do get them off, does that mean when the Church of England was spun off the Catholic Church, they took the importance of the cross and Christ's ascention w/ them as part of the new church doctrine? Again, this is as a historian who grew up Methodist, so it is new to me. It seems logical, but I just don't know enough about the Church of England's roots, I guess. Ok, enough religious history questions on this thread. Sorry.
I'm not really an expert RTL, but the CoE left papal authority when Henry VIII's wanted to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon (on the grounds that she had previously been married to his older deceased brother Arthur), and marry Anne Boleyn. Since the then Pope would not sanction the annulment a schism formed and the CoE became its own entity with the English monarch as head (this was before the unification with Scotland). I believe the roots of the CoE faith are in Calvinism, although I don't know much about that. Today CoE acts a catchment term for a variety of different Christian beliefs, including Anglicanism.
OK. History lesson over. I wonder what things would have been like if Henry's brother Arthur hadn't died- no Elizabeth I, no Henry VIII, no schism from Catholicism perhaps. But I'm a bit sad that way!
Sorry Ali!
So, are you implying my gold fish called NEMO by my kids, isn't interesting enough? Did I tell you he likes to be touched and jumps up a bit to touch my fingers?
PS Ali- great news that he texted and asked after you. I liked K's response- busy round the house. Keep the PMA up and don't give him any reasons to feel bad/worried about you- he needs to believe you are OK and strong to work through his stuff.
Safe haven, safe haven, safe haven!
L.xx
... and some times he dances with the music when I have the radio on?
Ah tetras.. mine always succumbed to "terminal tetra disease", which is a pretty specific thing, and no wonder they kept getting it. My Danios are a bit frisky, yes! They're all lidded in though, so no escape. I like them and I got them for my cat, she likes to watch ones that zip about alot (cat TV !).
Well, just as I replied to him (something jokey about his trip but glad he had a good time and then something about doing my fishtank...) I got a reply from him saying "Sorry, sent reply ages ago but it didnt go" - which is interesting ! I wondered if something like that had happened..as he didnt reply to my text this morning for 6 hours. So he actually texted me to apologise and let me know he wasnt ignoring me! Thats nice, and a first.
I sent another back saying I had just texted him, synchronisity! and that one of my fish has dropsy and looks like a swimming pine cone. Which is not really a text he could reply to, unless he can think of some other woodland joke to come back with ;-) So perhaps I shouldnt have bothered, but I dont suppose this stuff is make or break!
Well, at least theres been a bit of contact! Just got to broach the cinema thing now, I figured we'd go see the film on Thursday or Friday, if hes up for it (the stars are ripe for l-oooooo-ve).
Kalni..you're making this stuff up!? My fish go mad when they see their food tub approaching, which makes me laugh. They can see out. They can see my cat staring at them. I wonder what they are thinking? (LET ME OUT LET ME OUT YOU SADISTIC JAILER !!).. I hope not, I hope they like their (occasionally cleaned) home.
(((((Kalni)))))
A dancing, winking, jumping, biting, fat goldfish sounds like lots of fun! I bet the kids like it too! I think fish are a really good thing to have with kids about. They will put up sith being ignored a bit, and keep going! The four leggeds don't do so well with that!
We would think we had the danios lidded, they would somehow jump up into the filter, and live there for days!
Hiya..not been doing so good. Have been sobbing for the past hour. I dont know why it hit me like that, all the disapointment and hurt all over again, I havent been this bad for weeks. I guess I just expected something -big mistake! I dont even know what. I just dont see how he can make any baby steps back toward me now when he is dealing with depression...and yet, he said he had a really good time skiing.. so hes not in THAT bad shape. He can go away, learn to ski, have some laughs. But he never phones me, I dont know when I will see him.
I feel so hurt and I miss him so terribly. I've just been sat here thinking I cant take it anymore, the random more texts, emails, no honest conversation, no idea how he feels, what he feels, if anything. How could he do this to me, after so many years and to not even tell me what I did wrong, if anything. I think I just snapped. I think he broke my heart.
((((((Ali))))))
It isn't about you! Yeah, he can go away skiing, and have a good time, but that's in a fantasy world. So, now he is back in the real world, and he is crawling back into the safety of his shell. I fear I may be reapeating myself, but let's take care of Ali for a while! Your BF needs some time, himself, to take care of him. I really don't think there is much you can do to help him right now. He is going to be on a journet inside himself, and he will probably see things he really doesn't want to see, and he isn't going to want to share them with anyone.
I know you miss him, but for him to come back, he has to get through this, and it isn't about you!
((((((Ali))))))
I'm so sorry you're feeling bad. It's the rollercoaster ride- one minute OK, the next in a dip. What you're doing is hard, and there are going to be times when you get upset.
Have a cup of tea. Take a deep breath. Don't assume that him saying he had a good time ski-ing means he isn't in a bad way- depressed people find refuge in different ways. Maybe he had a good time and was able to forget about his problems for a little while. That can only be a good thing in helping him gain perspective on things and him wanting to get his life back on track.
You are a HUGE part of his life still. You were one of the first people he shared with about his depression. That was a massive step for him to take. Carry on being your lovely self and be patient with him but keep your expectations low. He will keep taking steps back.
This would be a good time to try and focus on you- his journey (as Jeff said) is going to take time, and you can use that time to GAL, detach etc. bet the best Ali-Beacon-In-The-Night you can be!
L.xx
(((ALI)))
Cry as much as you need. The frustration of waiting finds a way out/an exit this way. You'll be fine tomorrow. You'll be fine. Give yourself some credit. Lick your wounds, it's ok. You like to cry, I like to act silly. So what?
We are all here for you
K
Thank you guys, so much, yet again,you are all there for me! Tommorow is another day. I'm going to go to bed now. At least I never have any trouble sleeping!(but I wake up every morning having bad anxious dreams, saying the things to him I cant say in reality). Your right Jeff and Lisa, I guess he is not necessarily ok, even if he says he has had a good time, and I am glad he had a good time anyway, I want him to be ok! And yes Kalni...so true! I do tend to cry easily when I am upset, or angry and really it is frustration, thats true. Its so frustrating waiting indeterminably for something to change. Or to not care anymore.
Thank you all so much for your calm perspective !!!
Ali x
PS: Kalni..you are like the duracell Bunny! How do you keep going on so little sleep !?
Dear sweet Ali,
You make me laugh... sell your own grandmother to see you!!! OMG!!! Who knew that you and Kalni could delight me so much with your fish talk?
Can I share something I noticed? I took a couple days off from the boards when I was on vacation. When I came back I read up on your entire thread. Some things stuck out from reading it so close together. I'm going to try to explain what I noticed but it might come out wrong, so please forgive me if I say it wrong.
1. Girl, I want to tell you, you are making MAJOR STRIDES. Your whole tone has really changed in the past few weeks. You sound way, way, way more centered, grounded, happy within yourself. It seems like something in you has really shifted.
2. It seems very obvious to me that BF is taking steps towards you, if only to reconnect as a friend, and we all know that is the step before romance!
3. This is the tricky part to express... It seems like it is difficult for you to truly detach because you feel responsible for your BF. Like you are afraid if you are not available for him at any given moment, everything will be shot to heck... either for him as a person since he is going through a crisis, or for your possibility of reconciliation. It's like something in you really can't let go and step back.
It reminds me of what you said earlier about how you and BF would parent each other because you didn't have good relationships with your actual parents. It seems like you are still trying to tend for him like a parent would. That same kind of selfless and worried devotion and concern. Like when you said that you wished that he could live with you in your spare room, even if you weren't in an R, just so you could take care of him. That sounds very parental to me.
But I wonder... what if that dynamic is part of what needs to change in the relationship? I am totally pro- selfless love. BUT, what if part of his journey right now is to learn to care for himself, to be his own parent, his own independent person, who does not need a caretaker? What if that is a dynamic in your relationship that needs to change for you to be able to reunite in a healthy way?
Just a thought.... Let me know what you think!!!
(((((HUGS))))
T
Ali,
So sorry to hear that you've had a bit of a crash today. I so can identify with the way you explained it...the chronic stress of trying to not have expectations but still wanting engagement, and the waiting--even when you are trying to stay occupied. When I read about the last couple of days, I don't think it's a black cloud in terms of the texting that took place...I just don't see that. It must be very hard to not know what he is thinking and feeling, since there is limited contact and he is not always sharing loads and loads with you each time. But, his texts DO indicate that he is thinking about you, and that he is trying to be somewhat conscientious about the replies.
Do you know if he has started IC yet? I wonder how that is going for him...
Get a good sleep and regroup! We are all here waiting for you, ready when you need us.
((((Ali))))
Purr
I'm sorry you aren't feeling well. I hope you feel better after some sleep. Sometimes a good night's sleep helps us regain some motivation.
I just found your thread and caught up. Sorry it took me so long!
hey T, Purr, Michelle! Thanks very much, not doing so well today either, hit a bit of a low point I think. Been dealing with solicitors this morning (on going tenant stress) and finally looked at all my finances - and I'm in big trouble. Thank you so much T for reviewing my sitch, thats very kind of you! And I like that you spotted I was doing alot better..until my crash yesterday :-/
Anyway I got a text message from my BF today...something jokey about my fish then in response to me asking him last night how he was doing:
"Ok I suppose, just got back into work and feeling rubbish about that. Got docs again later"
So...I got upset again. This is so hard. He is having weekly checkups, which is unusual in this country, so he must have been in a bad way when he went first and got diagnosed. It struck me to forget DBing and what I can hope to get in this situation, but just think of him. So I wrote straight back saying glad that he had a docs checkup, that could you asked to be signed off if work is that bad, and to email or call me if he wants to offload about work, or just have a chat. I think its not a case of letting go, but being there for him! Surely he needs a friend right now more than anything?
I dont want him to feel alone, or that I wasnt there for him, just in case. He did tell me last Thursday he was here that he had been feeling suicidal. Thats why I ws thikning I wish he would move back here to stay...I take your point T about parental roles but this is a bit more than R stuff, you'd offer for a friend if they felt that low. Anyway, what the astrologer meant there about me and him was that we provided that type of nurturing unconditional love you get from a parent. Its not like I get it from my parents AND my BF, same goes for him. We both have pretty self-involved mothers, for one reason or another.
Anyway, he didnt reply, but I'm sure l'll hear from him soon. And no, hes not even on the waiting list yet for C as far as I know. Hes got the docs tonight though so that will hopefully get him an appointment.
I'm not sure whether or not to email him and ask how hes doing, or leave it until tommorow if I dont hear from him. I could suggest going to the cinema too, something for him to look forward to, on one night that he doesnt have squash or something.
I feel in a strange position, trying to DB an ex BF who has depression. Its a bit of a fine line to tread !?
Ali
I think leave it until tomorrow. He knows how to get in touch with you and you don't want to come off as panicked/mothering/pursuing. You are right, he needs a friend, but you are being a great one!
Hey Michelle, everyone!
So, he did email! He started...my day is ok I guess.. so he was replying to my text saying email me about your day if you want to chat. He then told me lots about his holiday and how he was surprised how much he enjoyed it and how pretty the scenery was.
In fact, it was a long, chatty, natural email, with full sentences and personal pronouns and just sounded...normal ! I'm delighted but also, a bit thrown! Whats this, just friends now, feeling more comfortable, baby steps, all of the above !? He ended it with something else that sounded so natural and friendly and something he hasnt said for ages: "Anyway, sorry to babble, what've you been up to?"
Eek! Not much! I'm going to have to invent something here (ok, lie), or open up a little and admit its been a bit quiet here over Easter? Not sure! I didnt reply yet anyway. I had a feeling he would email me, I knew he would and I figured it'd be close to the end of the day (I was listening to the voice Kalni!), so I went out! I am proud of myself for that..and sure enough, the email was there when I got in and he will have left work.
I'm feeling confident now about asking him to the cinema. The question is ...should I dye my hair brown-black or red-brown and will he accept the invitation and should I suggest a drink before hand!???
Maybe be a little vague - keeping busy with school and work, went out this afternoon. Going to go to see ___ on Friday. Interested?
Hey Ali,
I was just trying to think of a reply to post, and I remembered that in DR there's a chapter on dealing with the depressed spouse. What does it say about how to handle one and DB? I ask because my DR was taken by my H in October (and then presumably thrown away. I really need to get another copy)
Great news that he e-mailed you and that he sounded good. He obviously appreciated the support you showed in your previous e-mail. I wouldn;t lie in your reply, but don't give him any reason to feel worried about you either. I think he needs to believe that you are strong and together to be able to go through his journey as quickly as possible, so I would go for something about being busy at home, and maybe a bit about what you did last week (artwork/college?)
Which was are you leaning about the hair colour? I guess it depends on your skin tone!
L.
PS. I posted a couple of links on my thread for you.
If you were GAL you could answer that!
**Hiding under desk**
Hmmm, I'd prefer red-brown, but I am not him! I would be tempted to go with the least likely to be expected! Drink before, tough call, I lean towards not. If the movie doesn't end too late you might be able to grab a dessert after, once you have a feel for how things are?
(((((Ali)))))
Hey Jeff! Yes, struggling with the GAL..actually, struggling with being mega in debt and no job, but hey ho! It does keep me awake at night. Going to go to work with my two jobs tommorow and see a friend also, been emailing an old mate today, so as usual..trying! But its like that thing, how do you eat an elephant? slowly, bit by bit! Oh and I got invited to Prague soon! Cool! No flights from around here, so I need to arrange to go back home and fly from there and also, defo cant afford it, but cant say no can I !? The film doesnt finish till gone 11pm, so it would have to be a drink before or not at all on a school night :-)
Ok, reddy brown it is (the black is a risk perhaps!) and thanks Lisa, I will check out the links! Thankyou so much. Also, you are right, I forgot there was a chapter in the DR book, good thinking I will reread it tonight. So you all think I should just keep it vague? Maybe I will just try and think of some funny anecdote to lure his interest a little and leave it at that. Not sure I can compete with you corset girls though!! (Lisa and Michelle!)
So, do you reckon its positive he emailed and was chatty? Its not "just" friends is it? He did say that we would stay in touch when he ended it..he never seemed to want to just, lose touch, so it may just be a matey thing for him and its easier to contact me if the guilts worn off a bit and the tablets are kicking in! Also, he didnt put "me" at the end, but thats minor. But I know, I know...friendship before romance!! (i before e except after c)
Ali x
Of course it's positive that he e-mailed and was chatty! You can't possibly move to romance unless he knows the door is open, and that has to start with friendship and feeling things out. Now, the trick is to try and keep things moving in the direction you want, focusing only on what you can control.
I say invite him...and see what he says. I.e. if he asks about going out before hand, expresses interest in your dinner plans. Don't put too much out there or he might feel pressured. Play it by ear, start slow.
Hey Ali! Hopefully your weather will improve one of these days, and you can at least get out and ride your bike, and walk the beach! The trip to Prague sounds like fun.
No, ending at 11 kind of puts anthing after right out. I'm trying to think of something less "normal" than a drink before, that's where the dessert ideas came from. I guess you could get dessert before, though that feels backwards!
he sent you an email, and put some time and thought into it. Why don't we stop the anaysis there? ((((((Ali the Analyser)))))
I cant help it...once an IT nerd, always an IT nerd! (this was part of the jokey bit I came up with for my email to him - I got all evening to write it!). I'm wondering if I should text him this evening to ask how the docs went...but I guess not. Just dying to interact with him some more. I'm missing him alot these past few days. I thought I would send out the cinema invite and then tell him it starts at 9...but not sugget when or how we will meet, just let him say yes to the first bit (debatable) and see where it goes from there. The good thing is, its only on the next 2 nights, so he cant spend ages thinking about it, or say go another time...and that leaves the weekend too, if he wants to meet up then (and I already thought of somewhere nearby we could visit hes never been before - an abandoned old dynamite mine, with waterfalls and stuff with signposted walks! He'll like that and its quite gentle short walks, so would be easy place to go in an afternoon). Feeling a bit more confident today (only an incey wincey bit!). Still wondering whether to text...
Thanks guys!
Ali
Hey Ali.
Don't text- give him some space and trust that he will contact you as he has every time you've been worried about it before!
Have you finished reading that chapter of DR yet? I'd love to hear what it said.
L.
Just read the developments.
Good that you are feeling a bit better today. Bad that you weren't yesterday. You must like rollercoaster rides, don't you?
Nice of him that he emailed you. Didn't get your reply though. Unless astrologically you have inside info I would not invite him right this minute. Maybe you need to find another movie for later this week, Sat?
K
No not at all, I hate it! But it was my hormones Kalni! I came on today, so that must have been why I was so tearful the past two days (I dont record it since he left.) He emailed me this afternoon and I was going to reply in the morning and then if we exchange emails tommorow, I was going to raise the idea of the cinema then. Its a really good film, he will love it and theres a load of dross coming up after, so I think its that or nothing (we dont get many films here!).
Fortune favours the brave? He sounds better in his email, so I think I will chance it. If he says no, i'll go on my own.
Why do you suggest waiting? Oh and astrologically tommorow.."We have entered an astrologically upbeat phase, indicated by chatty Mercury's alignments with jolly Jupiter and radical Uranus that culminate tomorrow. Events will begin to unfold today." ... and all that is exact on my Sun! Thursday was when I was hoping we would go, as tommorow he usually sees his friend. Its perfect! (if he says yes).
Lisa - thanks the book has tonnes on depression, mostly about what not to do to get them to admit it! (yes, I did them all and nothing worked) So I see now how valuable it is that we are past that hurdle and he has stopped being angry at me for suggesting he is depressed and found it out for himself and owned it. I'm so pleased! Now I need to carry on being optimistic it says...!
Ali,
Up and down it all goes...what a difficult ride! A couple of quick notes:
1. I noticed you referring to him as your "ex-BF". This is new for me to read from you. Signals a shift in some way for you, perhaps?
2. re: him seeing the doc weekly or whatever...that's common and good practice when antidepressants are prescribed. It's particularly important if he is having suicidal thoughts. If you do see him and he talks about it, I'd encourage him to make sure he lets the MD know about this. Hopefully, the doc can expedite the access to counselling, as this will be very helpful.
3. Great news re: Friday and getting together. It's coming from him and the fact that he's engaging in "fuller" sentences probably speaks to him having a bit more energy and concentration (both of which go out the window in depression). It's likely to be up and down for him moodwise as he goes through this--that is normal.
4. Red-brown is awesome!
5. The friendship vs. possibly something more thing is a perpetual tension to try to handle on the LBS side. I think you can say with confidence that there is a fairly regular effort on his part to reach out and engage positively with you. It's definitely significant in terms of how he views your relationship as important. I think the friends before anything else framing advice is good and also, it gives you a chance to see how you feel about and with him.
I'm looking forward to hearing how things go!!
Purr
Thanks Purr! Thanks for your assesment from an outsiders perspective and ok, red brown it is! Dont want to scare him off with the black and last time I asked, he wasnt into necrophilia :-)
He does seem to be pretty much in daily contact, which is amazing considering we broke up 5 months ago next week. I just hope he still has some doubts about leaving (its a month since he told his best mate that). I havent had an update on that. Otherwise, he could "just" want to be friends. He said when he left he loved me like a mate, thats all...well since then he has owned up to depression which he resolutely wouldnt do before the bomb.
Well I have constructed and friendly and wittyish email back to send in the morning before I go to work. I have included a casual.. "fancy going to the cinema" on the end and explained the film is only on tommorow and Thursday night. So, question is, is it too soon, or just go for it and ask him?
I'm only a tiny bit concerned its too much "pressure" or pursueing at this point, so if anyone out there thinks its a bad idea, post me quick (well, in the next 10 hours!).
Ali x
Keep your eye on the forest. You are getting lost in the trees again lol. He was having doubts, he probably still is. At any rate, you have been doing a great job of making him wonder, so keep doing it! Even if he has some doubts that you can ever get back together, that doesn't lock in the future. So, keep your final goal in mind, and keep up the good work.
As long as it's phrased casually, I don't see a problem with feeling him out. It might be less pressure to say, I'm going to the cinema Thursday, seems like a film you would enjoy if you are free.
(((((((ALI)))))))
Whack , whack, whack! I broke my 2x4!
Your mind must be racing 24/7!
In little bits:
He is contacting you almost every day, sometimes more than once.
He told YOU about his depression, first.
He wants to know what you are doing.
He tells you what he is doing.
All of this is beyond what a "friend" would be doing! You know he has doubts. Keep doing what you are doing. You are showing him, very gently that the door is open. He is approaching slowly. And that is the only way it can be, especially with the depression on top of everything else.
Keep doing what you are doing, let him see that it is safe. Let him rediscover himself, then, we hope, he will be ready to rediscover you.
I think the movie is still a fine idea, as long as you are prepared for a "no" answer. After his trip, and with the depression, he might truly not be up to it, don't make a rejection of your offer about you!
Red-brown is a very good choice.
My goodness, I miss one day and I'm 6 pages behind. This little Ali is a typer!
Ali, it sounds good and he is crawling back to you, so continue to be patient. As for the good cry, let it out. We all have them. I posted on my thread that I was daydreaming about throwing in the towel, telling W she'd won, and disappearing. I wouldn't do that to D or myself, but for a moment, as I was really, really down, it felt like a good idea to escape the pain.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't beat yourself up for getting down and crying. You are human and you are hurting. Don't forget that, ok?
Keep going through your Hell. You're getting closer and closer to getting out of that tunnel.
RTL
One-Day,
Thanks for the brief info. I was pretty sure that was the case w/ the church history after Henry VIII, but it helped to get a Englander's perspective.
RTL
sweet Ali,
I don't have anything to add to the discussion, but I just wanted to stop by and tell you I am thinking about you.
((HUGS))
T
I'm all about the reddish brown Ali!!!!
Hugs,
W2G
Cant wait to hear the latest about the cinema response. You sound great Ali - even if you have crap days, you are still so in control and strong! I love it!
Ahh...well thanks for the votes of confidence everyone! I'm a tad nervous today.
Jeff, I know I sound annoying, but I just need to let it out! If I say it to my friends, they sieze on it.."well, yes, its been over a long time so you are just a mate to him now.." they dont get DBing so much (well, some do), so I come here to voice my doubts! Its hard not to read it as it is just mates and not going anywhere...
the reason is, becuase I know him so well. He is a very sociable, friendly guy (above the depression!) He has loads of mates, he makes friends wherever he goes, hes been asked to be best man 4 times! He has always been comfortable with having male and female friends - single or attached and doesnt have a problem with that, he doesnt fancy them (well, he did me when we were friends!). He only has one good female friend nowadays, and she is M with kids. But becuase he is like that, I cant be sure he just isnt genuinely wanting friendship and nothing more. It was a while ago now that he said he had doubts and he may have had time to think and come to the conclusion that its best left as is, he doesnt want to hurt me again. And as he said, I just need to get better, get well. So I'm sure thats his main concern anyway.
I wish I just knew! That he wanted to spend another 6 months say just on his own, getting better, but that he would like us to reunite one day. Then it would be easy to wait, make friends, work, look after myself! But I find it very hard to live with the constant uncertainty (then again, my friends say, there isnt any, its over, you know whats going on!)
Well...I sent the email at 9.30 am, I said some stuff about his week, my week, the doctors and then casually said I wondered if you wanted to go see a film that I was planning on seeing, tonight or tommorow...
He hasnt replied to my email yet. Feel nervous! We were exchanging several emails a day (up to 6!) before he went to the doctors 3 weeks ago and got diagnosed..since then, theres been hardly any, maybe one a day. So the contact has dropped off. He came round last Thursday evening before skiing and cried alot, then he was away and since hes been back, I've had a couple of texts and one email. So he does seem to either have backed off a bit, or is making less effort toward me. And it would be speculation to try and work out why, but it doesnt feel as positive. I think thats why my intuition is warning me he has decided he only wants to be friends...
Ali x
___________
Me: 37 H: 34
T: 9 years
IDLYA: 2 Nov 07
Own flat: 26 Jan 08
Ali,
don't think for a minute I am not watching...
K
He just replied...he said (amongst other things)..
film sounds good but hoping to watch the football tonight (england vs france) so maybe tomorrow?
SH*T !!!!!
Got to go buy hair dye and see a solicitor, so I cant reply rigjt away !!
Al x
Never dye your hair without first consulting a legal expert!
Just say you are busy afterall for tomorrow and blow him off!!!!!
Just kidding!! Great news, how come you missed there is game tonight? Tssss, tsss, tsss
K
Oh, I had a super long 2x4 post all ready to go and then saw that we'd moved on. Shame- you guys are missing some real science-girl critique of Ali's earlier post!
Ali- I agree with Jeff, Say that something came up last minute and you could meet for a quick drink, and perhaps do the movie another time.
Here's my top tip for dealing with a football mad spouse. Read Sky Sports/BBC sports news and find out a bit about the game so you can converse a bit (and maybe go with them to watch the match). It's Beckham's 100th cap tonight- only the 5th man ever to reach the magic 100. If he plays though- he's getting on and is a bit injury prone. Also, he isn't very good and playing in a disciplined way
L.
Ali- I agree with Jeff, Say that something came up last minute and you could meet for a quick drink, and perhaps do the movie another time.
That was Kalni! I don't think that's the way to go, she did invite him for either of the two nights. And he sort of said yes. Pretty big for him.
Ooops. My mistake Jeff. Sorry!
Al- Jeff is right- him saying yes is a big step. Go for it (and have some football speak at the ready!).
Ali,
Here's my take:
You could say "tomorrow should work for the cinema. I'll have to shuffle a few things around, but I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem to do. What time should we meet up?"
That way you are still looking mysterious to him, even though you'd be shuffling around your plan to take out the trash, sort the mail, and feed the fish. He doesn't need to know that.
By the way, how is the guitar playing coming along? I haven't read much about that lately.
RTL
oh sh*t again.. I didnt check with you guys and just replied and said "Ok, tomorows good for me too for the cinema..." oh well! I'm no good at being mysterious. I can db, I can do no presure, I can act as if.. I just cant be mysterious! I wear my heart so much on my sleeve its untrue. You wouldnt believe the effort its taken these past 3 months to hide my feelings (but my eyes dont lie unfortunately!). I managed to work out that its England playing tonight...so said good luck for England... that was about it. But yes, he is one of those typical english, go to the pub and watch football. But hes not a lout, he doesnt have the shirts and wear them in the pub or anything! I used to HATE football, so even wishing the team good luck is a 360 for me!!!
I got the hairdye. I'm dying my hair and defo going to the pictures if he agrees..
Lisa...can you do the 2x4 anyway as I am still "wobbly", my earlier post still stands! In fact..in his email, yet again there was no "me" on the end, although he is depressed still. He also mentioned that things are not going well at work (I told my Mum ages ago that he has Uranus opposite his MC - textbook definition is being unhappy at work and wanting to throw your career in, being made redundant or getting sacked..all quite speedy sudden changes in career fortune). This is before he said anything. His boss is not happy with him today and he said he hates it and is seriously thinking of leaving, "but its not that easy down here". There is only one other company he could apply to as he is a geologist. So thats a bit of a worrying development, he may be thinking about leaving, going home. Yikes. Anyway, that hasnt happened yet.
I'm so chuffed that he didnt freak out about the cinema but said "maybe" ! :-)
PS: Kalni.."blow him off!!!!!" - has a WHOLE other meaning in England. This may be a bit ambitious
Are you sure Al? I've got what I was going to write originally in response to your first wobbly e-mail and can copy it in. Just don't think I'm mean because I really like you and want you to succeed here so much. (It's very full of questions)
PS> I'm so happy you got the dye, and that he said agreed to a movie, and that you 180'd and wished England luck. Come on England! (My H loves football but isn't a lout at all. I quite enjoy it myself- they have such nice legs, and am not a lout either!)
OK. Here we go.....this was the original 2x4
Hey Ali,
I was going to post earlier, but am glad K did first (Hi K!). I actually started writing a response to your post, but had to stop because I got too worked up! I've noticed that your mood tends to reflect what's going on with BF, and I find that a bit worrying as you are travelling a long road. Please try and detach. You need to focus on you and try to stop second guessing what is in BF's mind..... I am going to post some excerpts from your post that confused me a little (bear with me- the scientist is out so I am going to ask questions as I would of one of my students to clarify their thinking)
He is a very sociable, friendly guy. He has loads of mates, he makes friends wherever he goes, hes been asked to be best man 4 times! He has always been comfortable with having male and female friends - single or attached and doesnt have a problem with that, he doesnt fancy them (well, he did me when we were friends!). He only has one good female friend nowadays, and she is M with kids.
So he doesn't fancy his female friends. But he did fancy you when you were his female friend? What does that tell you? That if he is friends with you it could become more? There's a 100% record of that happening, and a 0% record of him just wanting to be friends with you. Which would you bet on happening again?
It was a while ago now that he said he had doubts and he may have had time to think and come to the conclusion that its best left as is, he doesnt want to hurt me again.
How long ago was it that he said that Ali? I haven't re-read your posts, but wasn't it only a couple of weeks ago that you found out from BF's W that he'd expressed some doubts? When that happened you were really pleased. So what's changed since then? BE PATIENT......
And as he said, I just need to get better, get well. So I'm sure thats his main concern anyway.
Yes. He is depressed. He's not going to just get better and start making decisions about you and your R with him just like that. Would you want him to make decisions when he's depressed? HE HAS EXPRESSED DOUBTS. That is AMAZING. I can't say it enough. PATIENCE
I wish I just knew! That he wanted to spend another 6 months say just on his own, getting better, but that he would like us to reunite one day. Then it would be easy to wait, make friends, work, look after myself!
Are you saying that you would only take care of yourself and make new friends if you KNEW for certain that your BF was going to come back to you? How would you behave if you KNEW that your B wasn't coming back? Would you not bother with new friends, or working, or looking after yourself? Not doing those things sounds to me like you would give up on yourself, which is poor DBing. You MUSN'T live your life only for your BF. Live your life for you, and BE STRONG. Would you genuinely want to be in a relationship where one person lives only for the other person?
Right, I think that's enough 2x4-ing from me. Ali- if you continue to have doubts, he will pick up on the vibes. You will CREATE YOUR OWN REALITY. Look for and post on the baby steps. Actually, I would love it if you would post a list today of the baby steps that your BF has taken since you started posting on this site. Not an outline. But an actual list. DR says that if you are looking for a big change, you will miss the small signs of improvement, and lose focus on your goal. Don't do it girl. You are going to beat this and Divorce Bust. But you must detach, GAL and do all the other things aswell.
(((Ali))) I hope I haven't been too 2x4-ish. You know it's only because I care.
Hey Lisa, Thankyou for taking the effort to nag me so justifiably! Particularly love the percentage analysis..! Nice touch :-). I will reread what you said and thats such a good idea about posting the baby steps...that could take some time I think, theres been so many! And its very clever of you to make me realise that. Really, cos I hadnt looked at it that way. That M female friend..he used to fancy her too! Oh and my best friend when he worked for her, before he met me..so he IS human, I just meant, he can go from that to being friends. I dont think I made it very clear...its the fancy them once, now friends bit that worries me!
Yes, it was a month ago that he told his friend that. His friend dared him to say anything unless hes sure. And he hasnt said anything. So either hes still thinking about it, hes sure he doesnt want to come back, hes not sure, or hes just depressed and cant think straight (probably the latter!). Patience, patience, you're right :-)
On the last point...I find it so hard at the moment. I AM going to work, taking care of myself, trying to make friends, but you know what? Its a chore. I'm tired, I miss my old life, I miss my lovely cat (he had £6500 of treatment for hemolytic anemia with pancreatitis..only 3 other cats in the UK have had that! We rushed him to a specialist hospital in Bristol on a drip on the back seat of the car last summer!! He was all cured, but just before the bomb, he went downhill, but I didnt notice as I was so stressed out with my BF withdrawn moods and deciding on our future stuff and operations on his broken arm...and he just died one morning. I felt so guilty, but it was bound to happen. I'm welling up thinking about it.) I definetly wouldnt give up on myself, I am good at juggling lots of balls (I have 3 jobs, college and am a landlady!), its just an effort thats all. I cant feel any joy in being single, as I did when I was younger and just got out of an R. I'm looking forward to my pottery classes though..and basically, I will think about what you said as essentially, I need to be more GRATEFUL I think, for everything I do have. My BFs "half glass empty" mentality is rubbing off on me, and I need to stop that as its not like me at all. I was always the optimist and believer.
And on a more positive note, just had the most positive lovely email from him, I'm sooo glad, he is taking my advice and going to ring the EAP line. And he is going to meet me tommorow, which is fantastic. It ends:
"Will sort out arrangements tomorrow then? have a nice evening,
me"
((((((Ali!))))))
Lisa just sparked a though in my head that might help you with your patience!
As you know, my favorite analyser, we have recently come to the conclusion that I may well be depressed. And we know you BF is depressed. So maybe we can think about how I am feeling, and make a guess about how he feels!
I've been married for 23 years. Despite all my complaining, I know that my W is a good person, and I really would like to remain married to her. But right now, the idea of doing even the smallest thing to make that so is completely unappealing to me. I have less than no interest! But I have recognized that I need to do something for myself. Even that is going to be hard, I have so little motivation. So right now, he is in the same spot. It all seems so overwhelming, and he doesn't have the energy or the motivation to do much at all, let alone try to reconnect with you! I'd say getting him to even consider the movie is huge, moreso than I thought earlier!
Be there and support him, but in a quiet way. He feels like crap!
Ali,
Lisa is nice to you. I can't write as well in English. Sometimes it is very frustrating to try and filter my sentences wondering if what I write is harsh or not.
The point is one (for me): he is been away for so long and you are still so FRAGILE. I honestly don't like that for you. And I honestly believe it has to do with the way you CHOOSE to handle the situation.
I am glad with all the progress you are seeing but I wish you would appreciate it more and need it less.
PATIENCE... It's a matter of time.
K
Blow him off in that context I thought meant, refuse, don't go, ignore...
Hurrah! That's great that he's listening to you and taking your advice Al!
Glad you enjoyed the percentage stuff- I could even plot a bar graph of it, which I guess is my way of being excited about the data myself LOL!
I think the thing about the being just friends now thing is that it can't be 'just friends' that quickly and easily (4 months isn't that long in the general scheme of things). I mean, you guys were shagging like rabbits for 7 years. So he fancies you quite a lot I'd imagine. Did he ever do the business with the other 2 friends?
Once you've done the deed for 7 years (especially with a hot chick like you are Ali!), it's hard to forget all the lovely naughty fun. Somewhere inside he still wants to get his leg over, so keep being patient and eventually it will manifest itself (and feel free to post this back to me when I am convinced that my H wants to be 'just friends' with me)!
Looking forward to reading that baby step list- you might need a new thread for it because it is going to be LOOOONNNNGGGGG! Oh, maybe once you have it you could ost on the baby steps thread aswell. I've posed my rather shorter than yours list there and am getting some great feedack from Tia on it. She is great!
(((Ali)))
HAHAHAHA!! After the bomb, he did conceed that he fancied me alot and it was the best sex he'd ever had ! And he said that AFTER he'd dumped me, so I think it was sincere :-) People normally say "and you were crap in bed!!" at these junctures. Hey brilliant idea about the baby steps and posting to that thread.. I will do that then when I get time! (might need to set aside an afternoon!)
OK.. I am calling this.. "Operation Lisa". As a direct consequence of your earlier post... I got up and phoned my friend. I offered to go round and help him with some software editing thing tonight, and have a drink with him. I am going to stay and watch the football too, as he has no guy mates locally and I want pointers for convos with my BF tommorow. Phase 1 complete!
Phase 2 - I had a chat with his W. Shes going for a drink tonight with some yummy mummys.. I pointed out that its hard for me to meet new people here, as it was for her, but she has met some through her kids, chatting at the school gates... I had to say this in 3 different ways before she took the hint and she then invited me to their next drink outing, which is going to be at the pub over the road from me! Takes 17 seconds to get there (my Dad counted). Hurrah! Phase 2 achieved. She was like a lamb to the slaughter :-)
Phase 3...Going to do my CV tommorow with a waitressing/bar work slant (better take out all that JAVA stuff, dont think that will swing it somehow!)..and tout it around local trendy bars/restaurants. March is when they start hiring for the summer season.
Kalni...are you mad at me!? I hope not :-) My panic you sense is something I have never experienced before when breaking up..its an age thing, an ovary thing..I'm 37 and childless. This all matters to me so much. My Nan went through the menopause at 39, my Mum was 41, I dont have time to think, oh well, plenty more fish in the sea, another Mr Right will soon pop up! as I used to when I was younger. It may never happen for me anyway now, who knows, but its a big part of my being so panicked. I just cant be serene about it !
Jeff...bless you. I was driving home today thinking about you! I have to catch up on your thread, but did you ring that EAP line yet? You really helped there, you are right, everything is an effort when you feel that bad. I forget sometimes as I have never suffered that badly. I'm sorry you are feeling low too (((Jeff x)))
(((((Ali)))))
I hoped that would help. I just realized that I could see things a bit from his perspective. It made a big difference when I looked at it that way.
I don't work Friday, I think I will call the EAP then. I have been trying to sort of deal with one thing at a time, that's seems to be about one too many, so it is probably about right!
And look at Ali! Getting a life! Java might work at a coffeehouse!
Ali,
Holy smokes this is a lot of writing ground covered since I checked in yesterday! So much great stuff has been written here, but I particularly want to say how helpful and hilarious One Day's 2x4 analysis and was for your sitch (and also mine vicariously!).
Also, the blow him off thing...made me LOL because I get both the British and non-British meanings of this.
I'm really impressed with the steps you are taking, and boy did Kalni have an important thing to say re: appreciate the progress more and need it less. If only I could figure out how to do this(!) But it is pretty damn compelling.
Ali, you are at your best when you are taking action steps. I look forward to hearing how things go at the cinema with your new hair colour.
Purr
I sometimes wish I had your number to give you a 2x4 but not today. I can't get mad at you to be honest. (But I've been pretty close a couple of times).
I know the "childless" panick you are talking about. And I UNDERSTAND it. I have the other kind of panick "childfull" and alone. But panick is a feeling that comes across others around us stronger than any other emotion. Even dogs smell it...
I am gald you started on the Operations Lisa. It sounds promising and fun. If you promise to me you'try to at least have "15' BF free minutes", I'll be happier...
K
Hey Ali,
Oooohh, so if you were the best ever, may be you should be giving the rest of us some tips
I love Operation Lisa
I hope you have fun at the football tonight- maybe try and focus on the best looking players (Beckham, obviously), and there's something quite endearing about Michael Owen (if he plays). The key, I've found, to retaining interest in the game, is to try and think of the fun banter you could have with a bit of football knowledge- my H and I often discuss the football as it's safe male territory. It's also something that engenders conversation- did you see the match last night? Wasn't the ref terrible? etc etc.
BTW, I wanted to say that I totally understand the baby panic thing (and I know Beth would if she was reading this too). It's awful having a time limit and worrying about that on top of all this stuff, but I wanted to throw out a bit of pseudo-science on the numbers you gave in relation to your Mum and Nan.
So, over the years, nutritional and healthcare standards have improved significantly- reflected by increasing life expectancies for a start. This may be one factor in the difference in menopause age between your Mum and Nan- 2 years. If we made the assumption that things have improved again since your Mum got her eggs (which must be about 55-60 years ago at least?), your ovaries are going to be in better shape than hers were at your age. So you might expect 43 perhaps- another 7 years......
I really need to get back to work or I'm going to be posting scatter plots and pie charts next!
L.
I love that, thanks Lisa. Is that true? My Mum changes it every time I ask her, grr! It ranges from 40 to 44 depending on whether she can be bothered to really think about it. My aunty was the 41 ish too I think. They both stopped dead, as did my Nan, and she was defo 39. I've had my hormone "levels" checked twice, over the past 4 years, the doctor acknowledged my worries. So although its not that decisive, I have a baseline (have you done this?). I have made a doctors appointment for tommorow so I can ask about another blood test as its a year, or two years since the last check I believe. You have to go just before you ovulate.
He said last time that it is likely I will also have an early menopause. I believe it follows the maternal line...have you heard this? Cos on my Dads side my Nan was 55..so other end of the spectrum ! On the naughties...well, maybe he just had a bunch of rubbish gfs before me!? His last one was VERY moody.
Kalni...blow him off...means...oh never mind! But its rude :-)
And Purr.. I'm glad I made you laugh, you need some of that ! (you probably need some of the other too, but hey lets not go there!!)
Kalni...you can email me and call me anytime!! You are my Greek dopelganger. We fish gotta shoal together. This is a big week. Have you thought anymore how to harness the power of Jupiter * Uranus!?? Gotta check your thread for progress..You've helped me so much.
I'm off to my friends this evening for more than 15 minutes free BF time!
Ali,
I'm so glad that you are going to see the movie with BF, and that you made so many plans! That was especially bold to hint 3 times. I am so excited about all of the actions you are taking !!!! Hooorayyyyyyyy!!!!
(((((HUGS))))))
T
Hey T! Yes, I didnt give in till she got the hint!..she just called when I got in and said she told all the woman about me tonight and so they have arranged a special night out next week in the local pub across the road, especially to meet me!!! Wow, I get my own meet and greet sesh'. There are 7 of them, including my friends W, so thats 6 new friends and they are all 30 ish. So, ok I'm a childless spinster :-) and they all have kids in school in the village, but hey, I've got a cat, that counts right!? So I'm really pleased, it worked.. and thanks everyone, and particularly Lisa for the boot up the proverbial backside earlier. And my BF agreed to a "date". So all round, a good day!
I am sooooooo happy for you Ali!!! Hope you have a good time at the pub tonight and can't wait to hear about the movie tomorrow!
You are making baby steps like nobody's business lol.
Yay, six new friends!! In a prefab social unit!!!! You don't even have to engineer that, it is waiting for you! And they scheduled it for you specially, across the street?? SWEET!!
Good for you GAL! I love it! You do rock Ali and you are so going to be OK!! I hope you meet some really great people who will introduce you to even more people.
And the baby thing will happen when its meant to happen (I feel your pain and worry about that though - its very hard to let go of that!)
Ali,
The pub night is excellent! I'm so happy for you to be going out and just carrying on. Hopefully this can be a bit of a group for you to hang out w/ and help you to GAL and get away from your house.
Have a blast tonight!
RTL
You are awfully quiet today...hopefully no news is good news!
Hello!! Well bf...keen or what !?? He said yes straight away, I told him it doesnt start till 9pm...so he suggested meeting at 7.30 and then insisted on coming to pick me up! (and drop me back) even thuough this is a big round trip for him (would add 45 mins to his journey home), and he said we could grab a drink first! I said, yuo dont have to come get me but he said he would! Dont know why he keen to meet early, but dont care..feeling strong today, got to go get ready !!! He'll be here in just over an hour..have been whizzing round the house tidying up and hiding books, got to go shower and find something to wear, eeek !!
Wish me luck. I have been telling everyone I am on a "date" tonight! This week is it..the biggy. Its Uranus on my Sun (once in a lifetime) with the amazing sextile to Jupiter (defo once in a lifetime that combinatin!) linked to Mercury and Venus, in Pisces. So if there was ever a "my time" this is it. Tonight, tommorow and Saturday. I havent got any expectatins for tonight at all, other than, I feel in a good mood and will natirally smile alot. Hopefully he will be a bit chatty and will tell me how he is, I am curious! Will let you all know later when I am back :-)
Ali xxx
Wow! Meeting early and picking you up! That's pretty amazing. Things really do seem to be moving along. Just remember, some of the changes going on inside him may not be obvious from the outside - so no expectations and no disappointment.
Hope the movie is great and I'm sure you will look fantastic!
and find something to wear, eeek !!
Why?
Good Luck!
((((((Ali))))))
Good Luck ((ALI))!!
Let us know, but make sure the first post is short and sweet. Then you can analyse it.
K
((((ALI))))
He's picking you up and taking you home.. so this is definitely a date!!! Good luck and have fun!
W2G
Are you really going to make us wait til tomorrow to hear what happened?!?
Are you really going to make us wait til tomorrow to hear what happened?!?
If my calculations are right we have at least another hour to wait. Or more, if Ali is really lucky!
HELLO! It went really well, we got on great as usual..he did all the talking as usual, I smiled alot, laughed along, listened alot and validated as usual, but was a bit quiet and shy again unfortunately (whereas I was always confident and chatty and jokey pre bomb). He looked GORGEOUS (but apologised for not styling his hair!), he was great company, full of skiing anecdotes, made me laugh, was sweet but talked about himself the whole time! He seemed nervous actually. He seemed a bit different, more confident, self-assured, grown-up. I had this voice running through my head as I listened to his jokey stories.. "I just want to marry you". Oh well ! The film was great and he made the move to give me a big hug when he dropped me off and said he would call me tommorow! (I would be surprised if he did, but lets see!)
One other thing...he IS going to sell his Dads house and he had a full handle on our financial sitch (a TOTAL 180 for him, I did all the finances), that if he sells, we lose the profit on the rent which offsets the loss on our marital home...and he didnt ask me what I thought, he didnt ask to discuss it, he didnt say, I'm thinking of this he just said..
...so, when I sell I'm going to put the money down on no.X (our house) to reduce the mortgage down, so that the rent covers it easily and at the moment its making a big loss, and thats just not sustainable.
Thats 100k down on our mortgage on our joint house.
My brain had to catch up and I went...uhh..um..hrghh...oh..hmm..well if thats your decision, great.. and smiled sweetly whilst being GOBSMACKED.
I didnt read too much into it though, he is basically a sensible guy and has a cautious approach to money (as opposed to my gung ho, he who dares Rodney, he who dares! attitude). Still, its a fantastic outcome for me, hes willing to put down so much and we are joint owners. I really was very amazed and relieved.
Ok..um, was that analysis free enough ?? (I'm trying Kalni!) :-)
PS: He noticed me new top...he looked,he said, oh, is that a new top? the one you bought in town yesterday? he paused then went "cool"... so, not - it looks nice, but hey, at least he noticed!
(((((((Ali)))))))
It sounds like you had a great evening! The plans on the house sound really good! He's still connected with you, even if he doesn't know it! And, I really think that talking about him might be a good thing. He is clearly letting you back into his life. Baby steps, but steps nontheless!
And, I think a guy looking at a top, and saying "cool" is pretty close to a "looks nice", maybe better, actually!
Ali!!
Oh my GOODNESS!!! This is spectacular!! Lady, look how far you've come. I am so proud of you. So proud. So many good things!!! It sounds like you were really grounded and positive throughout your whole HOT DATE!!
Way to goooooo!!!!
(((ALI)))
T
Ali,
Great job! This was a definite date, there can be no doubt. Sounds like it went very well, and I have to agree with Jeff that "cool" can be almost interchangeable with "looks nice".
I noticed that you wrote about him doing most of the talking and you have mentioned this before. I wonder what you think/feel about it?
Purr
I think "cool" is almost better than "looks nice". I think he was really diggin' the top but wanted to come across suave about it.
I think when he said cool he was talking about more than the top!
I'm thinking that as well Jeff. You're a guy so you'd know best what "cool" means in guy terms.
Hey everyone!!! I've just been catching up on other peoples threads and....MY GOD! I know I said that this week was it, the biggy, if somethings gotta shift or turn around, this is the week it could happen (Uranus is sextile Jupiter which is linked to Venus..its AMAZING! and its exact tommorow and Saturday)
T gets her key then calls her BF (right??), Lisas H says hes gonna make her dinner !!??? Wow. Essie gets a phonecall and her H suggests moving into the house next door !!??? Kalnis H is gone all quiet and mysterious and is surely thinking...I havent had time to check the others, but I bet theres progress everywhere.
I'm amazed ! and knackered,its 2am. Will catch up tommorow!!!
And did anyone else think its positive that he'd rather pay off a chunk of the mortgage on our joint home, than like sell or something, seeing as we will have been split up 5 months next week!?
Yes, him doing stuff about your joint finances is big! Him offering to pick you up and drop you off is DATE stuff! He is making an effort to see you, I think he is wondering. Yay!!!!!
Ali,
Great DATE and wonderful news on the mortgage.
He is working to pay down the mortgage on a house he isn't currently living in? Hmmm.
That sounds very, very promising to me.
I am so pleased w/ how far you've come. Keep going, because if you don't see it by now, what you are doing is working! Don't let go of the tiger's tail too quickly. Keep doing exactly what you are doing, don't get too anxious and wait, wait, wait.
RTL
PS - It is definite you didn't catch up on my sitch today b/c my W is just as mean, if not meaner, than ever. I need the Snake to stop playing wormtongue and corrupting her mind and thoughts. ARRGH!
Ali,
It is SUPER positive that he wants to keep putting money into the joint home! I was so excited about the date stuff I didn't even think to mention that! But it is really big!!
you are doing such a good job!!
T
COOL!! You did a good job and you are "manipulating" him just fine. You are smooooooth!! Keep it this way. Try to be creative with him Al. Try to be upbeat for yourself and make him to want to be with you to take on some of your energy. Positive energy not too overwhelming (because it may point put to him how miserable he feels) but enought to get him closer... The medication will help him and hopefully the fog will start clearing...
Love
K
Ps You did a good job NOT overanalysing this (yet). You almost left me with a "I want more details" feeling... I said ALMOST...
Hey Kalni and T, RTL, Purr, Michelle, Dar, Jeff, Lisa...where would I be without all you guys!?
I was a bit shell shocked last night, becuase I felt so "in love"! I could have stayed there all night, we were talking so much, we missed the start of the film! I've had time to think and I honestly dont know how to "read" it. Yes, I was very in love, happy to be there, enjoyed it so much, etc...but there wasnt really any sign from him that it was anything special for him. Of course its amazing that we are at the stage of meeting, going to the cinema, a drink...But I wanted to give a balanced view, so apart from all of the positives I listed so far..
He sort of marched along, hands stuffed in pockets with me along side...but he didnt seem to be "aware" of me. In the pub when he was talking, he did that thing where he sort of described an aspect of himself, as though I didnt know him very well. There was lots of eye contact, but I didnt see that look in his eye, no spark, only after the hug, we sat and looked at one another in the car..and he said he'd call..and then he pulled a face, sort of sad and emotional and I dont know what, but something, but he wasnt smiling!
Of course he does have depression and he talked about it a bit, how he told his friend, but not his brother, how he's still not sleeping, how he got his first C appointment and what a shame it is that its not until 17 April..that hes not sure what good it will do, if any, but may as well try it. But you wouldnt guess he had it..he was such fun company. But then he is practiced at wearing a mask.
He said a couple of other interesting things which I had to think fast and validate...He had a small fall out with his best friend, its sorted now, but he's the guy he told over a month ago he had doubts about his decision. He was critiscing him a bit and had these words with him so I dont think he will go to him any more about me and him. Also, he was critiscing another old friend, saying that he is never honest and open, even though hes known him 12 years. He also was cross at a guy on holiday for being lazy and selfish...so he does seem very different and like he is not putting up with sh*t anymore from people. I was a bit taken aback by his new confidence and I just got shyer and shyer and didnt say very much at all, there were a few silences in the car home, which he jumped in and filled (he hates awkward silences). When he gave me the hug goodbye..I noticed that he didnt let go of the steering wheel with the other hand, which I thought was quite telling.
I am worried I am not doing enough to hold his interest, or win him back? I looked nice, I smiled and laughed alot and acted "cool" (smooth kalni!) but, is that gonna make the difference, I dont know.
About the house, I was pleased because he doesnt want to sell and I wont have to find my half of the shorfall on the rent if hes going to take the mortgage down. But..my face must have looked shocked, becuase he jumped in and said .. "well, then at least the money is still innvested that way".. by way of explanation as to why he was doing it (so not about us) and he didnt refer to it as "our" home, but by its number.
So, yes I had a fantastic time, yes we got on great (as always) but...it was just...like he was very detached, he seemed unaffected by my prescence, I didnt notice any sly looks at me (I was watching), no fidgeting or leaning in to me at the cinema (he sat with his arms folded the whole time), he left pretty quickly when he dropped me off, he walked along, looking straight ahead and didnt seem aware of me by his side as such and lastly...he didnt ask me even how I was or what I had been up to.
So, no change. He doesnt seem to be moving closer to me, in a romantic sense. No intimate talk of ANY kind. Just friends. Part of me is thrilled by the evening and the other part, is so sad that he is dangling me by a thread, that he has all the power, that one tiny word from him and I would know more but he says nothing. He may not even know how much it still matters to me, I have done such a good job of not breathing a word since 22 Dec! I am not sure what my next move should be? He hasnt emailed me yet today and its nearly lunchtime. I havent emailed him, I guess I shouldnt??
Ali x
My first reaction--
he's spending time with you and that is BIG. Who knows what kind of changes are taking place inside him. He could be "turning" inside for a long time before you start seeing it on the outside. It probably feels really weird for him to be spending time with you, no matter how much he likes it, which OBVIOUSLY he does or he wouldn't keep doing it! So the distance you feel, arms crossed, hand on the steering wheel, etc, could be just him building a little protective wall for himself b/c he is in a very intense emotional situation.
That's my first thought!
((((ALI)))))
T
(((((Ali)))))
I understand you concerns, but don't make too big a deal of them!
He is still getting his feet under him after his diagnosis. I think the fact that he is willing to let you into his life at all at this point is pretty telling. He is still learning bout himself. Too bad the counseling appointment is so far out. But I think it is important that he wanted to spend time, and agreed so willingly! And his plans for the house strike me as huge! And he said your top was cool.
Keep it up Ali!
Sounds like a great date Ali!! And the house/mortgage conversation is awesome. Definitely wants to continue staying connected to you!
W2G
Hi Ali,
I don't know how it works outside of the IL, but coming from banking in the past, if you put a chuck of money ($100k) down on your mortgage, it won't change your monthly payment, it will only lower your principle balance. However, if BF is putting the $100k on the house to lower the payment, then you'd have to refinance the house to make that happen. Again, that's how it works here. You can always call the mortgage company and ask them how your's works though.
Regardless, your outcomes have been AWESOME!
Hey dar,
I don't know the ins and outs, but living in the UK for a couple of years I discovered that the whole way of mortgages and house financing is completely different than it is here! I tried to follow it, and my head exploded!
Here comes the super-analyzer! Lol.
It was a fun time. Enjoy it, try not to stress. I know, easier said than done.
Tomorrow I think you can send a thank you for picking me up / drinks kind of e-mail. But don't crowd him lol.
Hey Dar..we're on a tracker rate, and its interest only anyway, so if we pay off a chunk we owe,it will reduce the mortgage way down. We also have the type where there is no penalty for over payments, even as much as 100k, so thats cool too. Like I said, I think its just him being sensible,but on the other hand, he doesnt have any desire to sell, so thats a relief !!!
He hasnt emailed me today :-(
All those emails we were exchanging a few weeks ago before he got diagnosed have stopped. Its 4.30 on a Friday and he'll be leaving work soon...I know you say dont analyse, but god, I love him so, I wish he'd move back in NOW and I dont even know if he'll ever kiss me again, neverlone agree to date or even get back together properly. The more time that goes by, the more I worry that he will meet someone else...
Struggling a bit this afternoon, feeling on tender hooks, but we'll see what the weekend brings..I'm hoping to see him (oh dear, expectation central !)
Just remember that usually once a good date happens, he may tend to 'hide' for a bit. With the depression too, it could all be confusing feelings for him as well.
My BF didnt email me... and then I twigged, its because he wanted an excuse to ring me instead! And then the phone rang, and it was him! He'd just left work. He said to me, all a bit sort of embarressed.. I'm phoning to apologise for not emailing you today, but I was really busy... horse sh*t ! He left work then phoned me right away to say sorry, he could have stayed at work 5 extra minutes and emailed me !
Whats that, foolish pride, embarressed, just needing to save face? Anyway, he sounded awful. He said he felt sh*t about himself and that he is worried he will get sacked (he is not concentrating and is making mistakes and his boss is mad at him...eventhough he told her about the depressiuon and ADs). We talked about the possibility of him getting signed off, he wants to, but is scared to. We talked about books - what hes reading, what I'm reading, hes going to lend me a book. He said several times he is shattered and wiped out and has no appetite and cant be bothered to cook... I took a deep breath and said, well, I could always cook you dinner sometime if you are finding it hard... and he said "ohh, noo, thats ok..." and trailed off. But he stayed on the phone ages..40 minutes, wandering around the supermarket. It was a nice chat, about last night too and how much he enjoyed it and a few laughs about some things. So not all bad.
He said he may call me over hte weekend and he was dreading a night out on Saturday and sounded very down and so again I was brave and said "well maybe we could go for a walk or something tommorow" -and again he said "ohh, maybe, I dont know.. " and excuses about the weather, but said maybe and he might call.. so I said, why dont you call anyway and let me know how you are and he said that he would.
He sounds terrible. He said he felt rubbish about himself, wiped out, he moaned about a few mates who havent been so great with him, he called his boss a b*tch, he moaned about his brother, he said he was overweight (he isnt) he said he isnt sleeping still and has no appetite and hates his job and....
I'm worried about him :-( this is very hard, to be detached.
And so pleased that he phoned me !!!!! On a Friday night. :-)
Oh and I decided to not just think of myself and DBing, but as he sounds sooo low, I just sent him a text, thanking him for phoning me, saying you are not rubbish, your boss is sh*t not you, that he could call anytime he needed a chat and that I hoped he got some sleep tonight.
I think this was the right thing to do. Its not that huge, its a little thing really, but I wanted to let him know I am here for him if hes really in bad shape. Anyone agree?
I am so happy for you. It's great that he phoned.
You left him some huge openings, so no pressure now!
You let him know you're there for him and the door is open. Good for you! And, I'd take him calling as better than him emailing...it's more personal.
Hey Al!
Sounds like the date went really well yesterday (remember not to overanalyse and look for baby steps!). it's great that BF is confiding in you and finding excuses to call you- really fan-flipping-tastic!
I think you did the right thing by giving him reassurance and encouraging him to call you/letting him know you're there for him. It really sounds from what you're written that he needs that, and you are IT!
((((Ali))))) can't wait to hear what happens over the weekend!
L.xx
Hi Ali!
Wow are you the same person who use to post here?!? You've got your groove back and you are so much more in control and centered.
Date was perfect - I understand your concerns, but from where I'm sitting I'm just really jealous of your quality time together.
Cool about the mortgage too. Its a bit hard to read into financial decisions, but I think its a good step too. I just want to check that this isn't going to negatively impact you financially in the future? Like if he has a bigger share of the house, you don't have as much say in it? I have no idea about stuff like that, but just be cautious and look out for yourself.
You need to adjust your time frame for you guys reconnecting. It honestly may take years. It will impact on your positive attitude if you are expecting him to be home in 2 months time - you will get angry and frustrated when he's not back.
You are also leaning towards sympathy and wanting to mother BF. Dont go there! Be encouraging instead that he can do it by himself. I know its hard and all you want to do is look after him. But it would be much better for you to support him and believe in him that he can overcome the depression by himself on his own (support the decision he made to leave you). Encourage him that he is dealing with it well, instead of being sorry for him.
Love ya!
Hey Essie!
Oh good point! I was worrying actually that I didnt "step in" and make it alright or offer more help, I was thinking, damn I should have said about dinner tonight "are you sure? you can watch rubbish tele here and I'll cook..." but all I said was "I could always make dinner for you sometime..." in a kind of non commital voice, and he said maybe, but I'm tired (I checked my notes, I write whenever he calls me)... so you have made me feel better! He was moaning about a lot of things and I just asked questions and asked how he felt and didnt jump in and suggest any fixes, just listened! So hopefully I wasnt mothering..
I just reread what he said, and amongst other things he said - I feel down on myself, I feel really bad about myself, I just feel wiped out, knackered, I just stare at my screen all day feeling really grumpy and tired, I cant get excited about any food, or cooking or even eating,I cant concentrate at all, I cant be bothered with anything..
I know I sound sorry for him here, but thats cos I'm venting here and I AM worried about him :-/
The house thing, its more of a risk for him, as we are joint owners, 50% each, no matter what we put in (unless he gets a special solicitor financial statement drawn up to state his capital input, which I doubt he would as he 100% trusts me). So, its half mine, no matter what (sorry Kalni!). I also dont think he would try and wrestle it off me in this way, as he knows he wouldnt even own it if it wasnt for me, I did ALL the work to get it, refinancing my house, solictors, negotiations, I even forged his signature on the mortgage application, as he was away in Japan at the time! I did it in the bank, in front of the bank manager !!! I said, its ok, he wants to buy it, but we cant wait till he gets back or they will pull out...she even lent me her pen and a bit of paper to practice on!!! Hilarious. I never give up you see (lucky for him, else I would probs be dating some hot 20 year old from college by now. Theres one in my class who keeps wanting to chat to me :-)
Sorry I havent posted on your thread latest, I'm getting there!! (oh and I'm nearly my old self nowadays)
I just reread what he said, and amongst other things he said - I feel down on myself, I feel really bad about myself, I just feel wiped out, knackered, I just stare at my screen all day feeling really grumpy and tired, I cant get excited about any food, or cooking or even eating,I cant concentrate at all, I cant be bothered with anything..
He has just described how I feel! Or really close to it! depression!
Ali,
Ditto to dry_heat's comments above...this is absolutely consistent with depression. Was he able to get connected yet with IC (can't remember but I think he's still waiting?).
Clearly he is feeling safe to reach out to you in some fairly consistent ways. You are creating a sense of safety for him, and I know it must be hard to figure out where the line of caring vs. mothering him is, given his very real struggles going on. You've put some good offers out there, I would concur with the advice to leave it there and not revisit it right now. My sense is that given how much he is struggling with the depression, it's a good thing to invite him to check in either way with you. He understands that you are listening and there for him in a way that he isn't likely experiencing with anyone else out there.
In one way, it almost sounds like some of the power has been shifting here, as you've begun reclaiming yourself and GAL and he has been finding the struggle perhaps more difficult than he anticipated. His reaching out suggests to me that he recognizes how important a person you are to him.
And, well, a little bit of attention from a classmate can't be too bad for the ol' LBS ego now, can it??!! : )
I too am interested in how the weekend goes.
Purr
I believe Saturday is the big day this week (if I'm remembering your posts on Kalni's thread correctly).. So I hope you have the chance to see your BF tomorrow!!
W2G
Ali,
I post in the same circles as you (esp. Kalni) so I read your stuff all the time and "lurk" on your thread, too. I just had a question, hope it isn't too selfish of me to ask.
You have been talking about the big Jupiter/Uranus thing tomorrow? The BIG CHANGE? I know you said it doesn't mean everyone around the world will have big changes. But does it matter your own chart? Or could big changes happen for anyone?
I ask b/c my H is coming down to visit tomorrow (Saturday). Kids and I haven't seen him for a week. Anyway his b-day is Dec 20 1973 and mine is Aug 24 1975. Does that make a difference? Or is there a potential for change for all of us? Sorry to bother you, but you sound so excited on K's thread that I am a little wistful for the same sentiment....
FWIW I think my H is depressed, too, but he is still in the denial stage. Doesn't think he is depressed but his mom, dad, sister, and I all do.....we don't say it to him though b/c he wouldn't admit it anyway at this point.
Glad you had a nice date!
(((((BobbiJo)))))
As one who just in the past week or so said the words, "I think I might be depressed", let me say that it isn't something that you get to easily. In my case it took people here to ask me the questions that led me to that conclusion. Hopefully your H will have someone lead him down that path. I think that you are correct that you, and his family, are probably not the ones that can do it.
Hey Bobbi! I lurk on your thread too! Hello fellow lurker.
You said You have been talking about the big Jupiter/Uranus thing tomorrow? The BIG CHANGE? I know you said it doesn't mean everyone around the world will have big changes. But does it matter your own chart? Or could big changes happen for anyone?
oh yes, this is EVERYONE on the planet feeling this. It may affect individual charts (I cant check yours without knowing where and what time (if you have it) you were both born!)
The reason I or astrologers say, but changes might not happen, is.. you gotta be in it to win it!! See, astrology is like the weather reports. You can be pretty accurate with what the planetarty "conditions" are, like weather conditions, but if I say, big changes are possible, you have to want it and make an effort to make it happen. All things are possible, but if, like a weather man says its a sunny day! but you decide to hide in the house all weekend watching reruns of Dallas on cable (I loved that programme!!) then, changes arent necessarily going to knock at your door. I can tell you you may have the best chance for that new job/romance/major life change etc, but if you dont embrace the opportunity, it will pass you by.
For me, the alignments hit my Sun exactly, so I was expecting something maybe...but its chucking it down here, so I doubt I will see him now afterall (dont know yet, its only 11 am). I just rememberd hes on a lads night out in a major tourist seaside town tonight, with all the other guys sharking for woman. He told me hes dreading it...but who knows, maybe he would meet someone, that would lift him out of his depression! I mustnt think like that though, hes really not in that head space.
Jeff...ahh, you think that really is it then? Any more thoughts on your liver/acupuncture etc...and did you ring the EAP line?
And thanks to everyone else and Purr, thanks for that so much. It should be so obvious to me, but it isnt as I am close to it. But yes, its a balance of knowing I'm there and standing back. I think its harder because we live down here and we only have one close friend each nearby, other than each other, and so I feel a certain responsibility as all his friends and family are 4 hours away.
Ali xxx
Oh dear...no word from him. I hope he is ok. I've been and sealed a shower unit this morning! I am woman. I was expecting to see him today, but its lashing rain sideways as its blowing a gale. No bike rides for me as usual! He's out tonight on a lads night out in a hot hen night town. Its ridiculous to be worried I know, I'm sure he will not be having a great time, but I am disapointed he hasnt rung. I texted him last night to say he can call anytime for a chat and I hope he sleeps ok and he hasnt answered that (it had no questions in it), but still, I was wondering about sending another text to ask how he is today? Thoughts anyone??
Ali,
Good luck with your day. It sounds like you are a very capable lady, since you sealed a shower today??
Sorry for the rain it probably doesn't help lift your mood. I am sure BF isn't going to have any hot times tonight, the way you have described him I don't think he is out looking for a good time (not with some random person, anyway, maybe with you though.
I think since you told him he could call anytime, you should wait to contact him. I have made the mistake of trying too hard w/H and it has never helped me yet. Give it a couple hours and then see. Last night I was about to phone my H and decided to wait on it. 15 min later HE called ME. I was so glad I hadn't initiated. We got to talk and I knew it wasn't all MY idea that way....
Thinking of you today! Hope you get a positive big change!
((((((Ali))))))
Jut waking up, and my eyes are still a bit blurry...
But, no, I don't think I wold text him again. You already let him know you are there, and willing to listen. Any more and you'll be pressuring him. Patience dear friend. Remember, he has a lot of stuff swimming through his head. Adn sideways rain never helped anyones attitude! I know where you can find some sunshine!
Wait, wait, wait... Don't "strangle (sp?) him with so much caring"...
K
Dear ali!
I'm with Kalni and BobbiJo. Give him a little time to step towards you!!!
You ARE woman! Ali, you're so delightful. I am very impressed with your shower sealing. FYI, you seem to be in SUCH a different place now than when you started posting, even than where you were a couple weeks ago. hooray!!!!
With all this talk about big change, I am wondering, how do I stay in the game, so I am in it to win it, as you said? What already happened was so huge. I am happy to content myself with that. But is there anything else I should do to maximize the impact of this moment of alignment? other than NOT stay home watching cable?
((((ALI))))
Ha! Well I renovated 4 houses and whilst I did have a lot of workmen in, I did lots my self too ! Tiling, grouting, knocking down walls, plumbing, assembling and fitting kitchens, ok so I'm showing off now, but I'm proud of myself!
Thanks for your steadying influences guys and gals. I didnt text him. Its so frustrating, I'm more in love than ever. I had such a great time with him Thursday, which is ironic seeing as he is in such a bad way, but I cant imagine any other man for me. I so wonder what he sees when he sees me.
I was thinking about his statement at the bomb, about love and me and his best friends. He said "I love x, I love y and I love z, but I dont love you".
Well, on the phone last night he was moaning about the first person, saying that he thinks hes rather odd sometimes and that his behaviour is ridiculous - this is the guy he fell out with on Sunday, his best mate.
The second person, on Thursday he moaned about him, he had emailed him about the depression and this guy owned up to taking ADs himself, but then was being all blase and cool about it, and my BF was rightly saying that this guy is so unaware and dishonest emotionally and its annoying as he has known him 12 years.
The third person, he saw last week, his female friend and I think she was helpful, but she rarely phones him and has had more depression over the years than he has himself.
So...then theres me. I dont believe that he doesnt love me. And I am sure I dont let him down or wind him up as much as these three people. He drew the comparison at the bomb, but he has since said some very revealing and honest complaints about them, so he has obviously had some realisations that they are flawed and only human . I wonder how he views me now 5 months on?
hey guys.. well, hurrah, hes not on a lads night out. The town is nearly an hours drive from his flat and he sent me this text message half an hour ago... "Hi al, just got there and the others have all jibbed!"
Now, why would he send me a message saying that !? :-)
I wrote back saying your kidding, what a shame and what you going to do now then?
no reply. I hoped he'd offer to meet me for a drink instead, seeing as its a Saturday night and hes at a lose end now. But thats probably a hope too far! Funny and sweet that he told me though.
Ali
______________
Me: 37 H: 34
T: 9 years
IDLYA: 2 Nov 07
Own flat: 26 Jan 08
Lol. Well, time will tell.
Oh no!! He just texted again. What he meant was the two nice guys had jibbed, the ones he was planning to sit in a quiet corner with and talk music.. the third friend is there and his brother, both single! He said he was out with them and it was "ok so far!" dont know what this means. But this friend is a total womaniser and boasts about his running total of one night stands and ALWAYS cops off with a woman when he goes out in this town. I'm worried now! I know hes depressed and all that, but its that Uranus/Jupiter/Venus thing tonight, hes a Leo and they wilt when their single and he'll be drinking and what better way to cheer yourself up than a bit of chatting to women!?? This is worse than him being out with all 4 of them, these 2 are a pair of lose canons. Eek! Why did he have to tell me!? I was having a nice relaxing evening before he did. Damn planets.
Ali
Haha. He's still not that guy. Don't freak too much. Perhaps he'll be bored and text with you all night.
Haha! Cheers Michelle. Well I sent him a jokey text back and added I hope he didnt end up in some tragic club playing the latest "choones" ! And wished him a good night out. :-)
Got another one from him..hes in this horrendous town, renowned for its Ibiza stylee clubs and stag and hen do's.. its not his scene and hes really not enjoying himself, he just sent me a jokey text about how awful it is. But then the average age of those there is probably like 20, and hes nearly 35 ! I sent him a jokey text back.
Its really great hes keeping me informed of his night out! Trying not to read too much into it, but thats a real change...he hasnt done that all along since he left! I hope I get to see him tommorow...
That's brilliant Ali! Another baby step!
Not looking forward to an hour less sleep tonight at all, but at least it's an hour less of BF being out on the town. He's not in Newquay is he?
L.xx
I think that is great!! He is contacting you as if you are still together. That's what my H would do when he was on trips or business lunches and hated it.
Sometimes I see him doing clear steps to you and suddenly I get worried you will scare him away... I can easily picture you, any day now, to ask him to come back...Don't you DARE!!!
Love K
baby steps, baby steps, baby steps!
keep your cool, ali, jokey texts are working now!
(((ALI)))
T
HAHAHA! I've had my auntie and Mum today saying...just ask him to move back in for gods sake! Then my sister just called and said dont ask him, that would be bad. But dont worry Kalni, I wouldnt! I offered to cook him tea on Friday and he said no so I cant imagine he would say yes if I offer for him to move home!
Yes Lisa, well guessed, hes in Newquay! I joked earlier that was he not knee deep in foam yet getting mashed up and largeing it!? You know they have those terrible foam pit parties there in the clubs. He hates all that. He cant stand any kind of house or dance music or R&B. He's indie guitar music all the way (oh and Joy Division, but thats cos hes an old g*t!)
Gosh, another text message! Telling me his friend is really drunk! Wow, its like..as though he is including me in his night out, as though I am there..
Ok, I'm a bit excited now. (but I waited 1/2 hour and sent a jokey text back. No pressure!)
...and ANOTHER text straight back about the terrible nightclub hes in. Blimey, if he wasnt an hour away, I'd half expect him to turn up at the door when the clubs chuck out. Must not get excited like this !!! But, this is a real change to how things have been and I wasnt expecting this! (despite banging on about sudden changes today all week!) :-) EXCITED !
(((((Ali)))))
Are you starting to believe that he cares about you? He is really including you in his life. Keep doing what are doing! He is getting so comfortable with you!
I call him if you like and tell him to move back in with you if he keeps acting this way ...
Just joking ((ALI))!! Don't send me his number, I will not do it!
K
Kalni you are HILARIOUS!!!
Ali I am so excited he is including you in his night like this!!
Kalni, why arent you in bed !!?? You must survive on like 4 hours sleep a night or something !?
I'm knackered and trying to go to bed, but I have lost my cat :-( Shes normally tucked up in her bed by 11 (so sweet, she takes herself off to bed at the same time every night!) ..ah here she is! Little monkey. Thats funny Kalni! But no more texts from him.. I had 5 tonight !! This is a very positive turn of events AND the phonecall when he left work Friday. AND the DATE Thursday! AND he said hed pay off our mortgage!
Ok Jeff..you could be right ! I do wish he'd just move back in though. Apart from the fact I really really love and miss him.. its yonks since I had sex and I'm flat broke and need his money! I could use a bit of both of that :-) Mainly though (99.5%) its because I miss and love him...
Ali,
Yay!!! He is SOOO keeping you in the loop on his whereabouts.. he's thinking about you and sharing with you.. all very important baby steps!
I hope you have pleasant dreams tonight my friend!
W2G
Ali,
Hmmm...a foam pit party. God, I am old and need to get out more. I don't even know what that is!!
Your BF totally sounds like he was including you and keeping you posted as the night went along! That must be satisfying to get those texts from him, that HE initiated and kept initiating through the evening.
Seems like you are on his mind...a lot! Me thinks this is good...very, very good. And I understand completely the 99.5%--and also the other 0.5%!!!
: )
Go Ali Go!!
Purr
Ali,
I have the chance to catch up before another thread locks.
Hey, what GREAT news about the date and about his calling to tell you sorry he didn't e-mail. My read on this is he was very, very concerned you'd be ticked at him for not talking to you and I also get the feeling he hesitated at work to e-mail because he didn't know what to say to you. He wanted to speak w/ you, but didn't know what to say. That is my basic take here.
All in all, he is moving to you. I know you wanted him to throw you down in the theater, but it won't happen that way. That would be ideal and something made for Hollywood, but only because Hollywood has to get all the way to the end in just over 2 hours. You don't have that luxury as you aren't on a clock, so you just have to wait.
Any contact from him is super. Any attempt from him is a huge step in your direction.
Keep it up.
RTL
Glad you had such a good night. Nice to be included. (((Ali))) Hope the rest of your weekend is swell.
Did you find the cat? It must be a male cat disappearing like that...
MLC on the way?
K
I found the cat!
Hmm..feeling a bit...hmm today. Its Sunday afternoon and so he hasnt wanted to see me this weekend. Thats a first, he has done every weekend since the beginning of February. He did text me earlier though!
He said it was a really funny night, that the place was awful and the people even worse and he really wasnt impressed basically. Thats was all, just a matey text about his night. Yet again he didnt ask me how I was or what I was up to or anything. Its positive that he sent me a text and I had 5 last night! So I must have been on his mind or "with" him. But, he obviously has no desire to see me this weekend afterall. I'm disappointed.
I have this feeling that hes getting some comfort from my friendship and care right now becuase he is low, but its "just" friends. I havent seen any signs to point to anything more. Its not hugely significant that we are still in touch and get on so well, as we always did and we've never had a cross word throughout all this and he told me at the bomb that he had "huge affection" for me and really cared about me, but as a friend.
But then of course he is depressed and tells me Friday that hes really down on himself and feels really bad about himself. So although he appears ok, he isnt really doing ok.
Aarrghhh! Dont know what to think ! I cant help feeling let down that he doesnt want to see me this weekend...although, his text message said "its awful here" implying hes still there and its an hour away from here...and there is football on at 4pm, which I am sure he will be wanting to watch in the pub, so thats useful to know, as I dont suppose he would arrange to see me if he has that to do instead. Makes me think he only saw me on those Saturdays or Sundays when he was at a lose end and couldnt bare his own company. Anytime he has "something" to do, he doesnt want to meet.
This is all so frustrating. Should I be a bit brave this week and initiate a tiny bit of R talk .... ???? Reach out??
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
((((((ALI)))))
It sounds like he just had other plans with his guy friends. Maybe he even would have preferred to spend time with you but he felt obligated to do stupid crap with them instead.
FOCUS ON THE POSITIVES. What you focus on expands, right?
Even if it just *is* just friends right now DOES NOT MEAN that you can't build on that into something more. Where we are now does not determine where we will be for the rest of our lives. and who knows, that spark might be sparking, deep inside, he just doesn't feel like he can let himself show it, because he is struggling so much with his own stuff.
What are you going to do for fun today? Sealing any more showers or performing other impressive feats of woman-dom ?
((((ALI))))
T
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
NO R TALK
Think about it.... if he was someone you'd just started casually dating, and you had an R talk at this point, when he hadn't even kissed you yet or anything, it would probably FREAK HIM OUT. DON"T DO IT. !!! Me and Kalni will just have to hug and kiss you to prevent you from doing this!!!
((((((Ali)))))))
You don't know that he doesn't WANT to meet. In his state he may not be able to! It's easy for him to go out with his buddies, right now it is harder with you, I think. Because he feels that it is more important for him to be "on" when he is with you. He doesn't want you to see his downess. (New word!)
Ali, we've got to get your focus off of him and onto you! What can we do?
Hey guys! I am saved..actuially I am knackered! Its very sunny here (but cold) so I went straight out after posting on a long bike ride...8 miles maybe? But its really hilly here and so I was dying anyway and then my chain snapped before I got home! So I had to walk the last bit and it was mainly uphill!!!
Whilst I was out, I got some texts from him (yay!) saying he had had a good night, but that he was absolutely knackered and he wouldnt want to do that again for a very very long time (yay again!). He also said "You ok?"
Now - yet again, I didnt answer, I never do, whenever he says are you ok, I dont tell him how I am, I just tell him what I am doing. So I was in a good mood (I'd been stood at the side of the road, heart thumping, out of breath laughing on the phone to my friend) so I sent him a jokey text back about how it was so sunny and I had cycled 7 miles and was now at the side of the road dying and may need an ambulance! I also said the gears were slipping (as I knew he couldnt resist this)...
Sure enough, he texted straight back to say it was a lovely day for a bike ride and said he'd take a look at my gears next time hes over.
Yay! Like shooting fish in a barrel :-)
Hopefully the contrast will be clear to him...hes hungover and fed up after a tragic night clubbing with a bunch of youngsters and I'm out cycling on a sunny afternoon.. I texted back to say thankyou, that would be ace and that my chain had snapped and said I hoped he was feeling ok in himself today, other than tired?...
No reply as yet. Seriously, I'm so unfit. There are dead people with better levels of fitness than me. I had to stop at the shop to buy chocolate biscuits and have just stuffed 4 down before taking my shoes off.. :-)
Thanks for your perspective T and Jeff..ok its hard for him, you are right, I forgot, he cant wear the mask with me. But, this business of asking me if I am ok - my friend says its like he really wants to know and it must be wierd for him that I never answer and tell him how I am. Just what I am doing. Any thoughts on that one, should I actually answer one of these days (and what would I say !!? Dont want to lie as such).
Ali xxx
(((((Ali)))))
Isn't "Are you OK?" the British version of "How are you?" And here at least, you just answer, "I'm fine!", unless you are dead, or something equally serious? I think telling him what you are up to tells him more about how you are than if you tried to answer!
We need to have a fitness contest! I think I am less fit that 2 dead people! We need to get fit! Any ideas how?
Hiya! Well, "are you ok?" is kind of more direct, more serious than How are you - thats more casual, informal. Are you ok implies that you arent ok, if you see what I mean and is an opener to explain whether you are or not. How are you is more polite and would be more acceptable to just answer "I'm fine" or I'm ok. Are you ok is more probing and harder to answer! Such is the complexities of the english language.
I havent exercised regularly (or at all really) for 18 years!! Apart from a yoga class me and my BF did 7 years ago, and I stopped going cos it stressed me out (seriously, I saw cockroaches running all over the floor and sensed evil in the room when we were supposed to be relaxing and deep breathing !!!) Either I am pyschic, or am f*cked up. Either way, I didnt find it the great pantheon of tranquility that everyone says it is! I liked pilates though, I liked all that draw your belly button down to your bum type stuff (try it!).
I managed to actually get hold of an exercise video..and put it on the floor near the video player.. and thats as far as it got so far! So we could resolve to actually do a bit of exercise at home regularly before branching out to something ambitious, like a class, or joining a gym, or going running, what do you think?
So, now you just need to commit to doing it on certain days...and you are off to a running start!
OK, when I was there, I really got the feeling that you were not supposed to answer "are you ok?" with a real answer. Maybe that's the staid Lincolnshire folks!
I think I am going to start riding a bike, and perhaps get a low impact sort of video. I'm going to look for a convenient gym, but we are kind of out of town. I have a bad knee that the doc says I shouldn't run on!
Hey Al!
Sounds like you had a good day today! It's great that BF has been texting so much- he's obviously thinking about you.
I agree with T- NO OR talk! None at all! Don't do it! He will bring it up when the time's right.
And I can't have you having an R talk before I do
- it's about 5 months for me now (8 if you don't count a total meltdown I had about the aubergine in November) and counting. Patience!!
L.xx
I am getting a word text file message ready with all sorts of 2x4s ready in case you dare to talk to him about your R. I am saving it on my desktop, file name "ALI'S 4x4".
What else do you want the poor guy to do to show you he thinks about you, likes your nights our more, feels close to you, etc. etc. WHAT?
K
Kiss me? Hold my hand? Tell me he loves me?? Theres alot more! I realise I am getting more signs than some people (and less than others), but its never enough is it.. becuase I miss him.
I'm just disappointed that he didnt want to see me this weekend, thats the first time for 2 months (other than when he was away). It seems he cant be THAT interested if he didnt take the opportunity to see me. I get confused though, as he is depressed. I feel lonely this evening. I deserve more than this, I was very good to him and still am. I am lovable, I deserve to be loved. I'm sick of feeling lonely and everything being all about him!!! I'm mad that he phones and texts and all he talks about is himself. He doesnt even ask what I am up to at the weekend. I'm on my own all the time, day after day. He must know that. He says "are you ok?", what does he expect me to say, yes? No, I'm lonely, I miss you, I'm worried sick about you, I am struggling financially and wake up every day having bad dreams. I dont suppose he would like that answer! Ok..I'm just venting. I'm sure I will be back to my compassionate forgiving self tommorow. :-)
Did that answer yuor question Kalni!? How long do we go on like this, not saying anything, waiting.. 5 months feels like a long time to be apart from someone and not get an I love you, or a kiss.
I dont want to stop, I dont want anyone else. I just realise how much I am at his mercy, I have little say on when I see him. I wonder if he will email me tommorow? If he does, I think it will be at the end of the day, as usual. I think I will go in to work tommorow, its a few doors from my house and I can go when I like and work as long or little as I like, I am the bookkeeper and as long as I get the VAT return done, he doesnt care when or how. But I think I will go in becuase at least I get to see some familiar faces! Sad but true.
Ali, I feel your pain, I honestly do. H told me - swore up and down - that he was coming by and we'd be going out today to talk (R talk). He completely blew me off. Didn't call, nothing. I've been on 19 months now with now kiss or ILY. I'm very down right now and don't know what to do either. Just wanted to let you know that I feel the same pain you do and you're not alone.
Ali,
I think with yoga it totally depends on the environment/teacher. I was really lucky b/c the first teacher I went to was the best teacher in Boston... I just went to his class accidentally. And since I've run into so many yoga teachers or studios that just had BAD VIBES. If I hadn't had the luck of meeting such a good teacher in the beginning I would probably think it was all b*&*S&*&*. So... sounds like you hit a BAD VIBE yoga studio/yoga teacher. Personally I need someone who is really openhearted and not bossy.... pushy yoga teachers make me want to punch them in the face!!!!
that's just my OPINION ABOUT YOGA
Sweet Ali, remember, NO R TALK NO R TALK NO R TALK
and I am SO PROUD OF YOU about your 8 mile bike ride!!! Way to go, girl!!!!!!! Now we just have to get *someone* to fix your chain for you!!!
((((HUGS))))
T
It's been 9 months since the ILYBINILWY...and no ILY since. And despite the fact that things aren't moving nearly as fast as I'd like, I really do feel like I am seeing some baby steps. So, I will keep waiting and hoping while detaching and being his friend first so that there is a chance we can have a real M again someday.
Hey there.. Dar.. I replied on your thread, thinking of you. Michelle, gosh has it been that long for you? Baby steps.. my god girl you were doing the horizontal jig with him not so long ago, I'd call that a man sprint :-)
Well, I got a reply to my text, he said he only got mine this morning so that confirms he has no mobile signal in his village. He offered to buy and fit a new chain for my bike, bless him. He went on to say how terrible he felt and tired and said that he "feels dead". I was very concerned to hear this. I texted back saying thanks about the chain and sorry he is so tired, but then the DBing has gone out the window a bit today, as I am more worried about him than me and him. So I told him to email me about his day if he wanted to.
He emailed me straight away saying just
"I'm knackered, was awake from about 3, feel real tired and hacked off, can't stand work at the moment and can't concnetrate cos I'm so tired."
So I wrote back saying again how sorry I was that he is that tired. I asked did he mange to phone the EAP line yet (he said on Friday he was going to), that he should ask their advice about work, tell them his boss was being rubbish about the depression and not making allowances, that if hes depressed, he probably would feel like he hated his job right now, but speak to them about that, maybe see if they can refer him to a local counsellor and added you can always talk to me anytime too.
I dont think he is telling anyone else in his life how bad he feels from what hes told me..he tried with two friends (who didnt say much back) and he emailed a friend, who was all bravado and made light of it. So, although he is telling people I get the impression noone is really listening or taking it seriously.
I think theres a chance we are slipping slightly into the old roles here (me being the strong one, suggesting solutions, him being the pessimistic weak one), but that could be over simplifying it and anyway, he is in a bad way, worst hes been for 12 years, so maybe it doesnt matter about me and him and DBing in the short term. If hes this low, I dont suppose he will have any thought about me or romance anyway, so he just needs to get better, or better than he is at the moment and I need to be a friend to him.
I feel in such an awkward position and he is putting me there as he is coming to me with this stuff, but still holding himself at a distance. And I do feel worried about him and yet theres only so much I can do or say.
IMO Ali he's coming to you with this because he trusts you completely and does feel safe with you. Plus, you give him answers instead of brushing him off like his buddies do. I think it's wonderful that you said you're more concerned about him than you are you and him. Very commpassionate!
Ali,
A few things I picked up here...
Its positive that he sent me a text and I had 5 last night! So I must have been on his mind or "with" him
I've been re-reading the DR book and the section on "taking stock" tells you not to over look the little signs of progress. This is complete progress even though they are baby steps. Remember he's on a long road back and it will be a while until he says "ILY" or holds your hand, etc.
I know you are worried about starting a family, but you also need to remember there are too many unwanted children in this world who would love to have a place to call home w/ "parents" who love them dearly. So, if biology ends up not being able to play out its part, that doesn't mean it is the death of your family dreams.
Finally, about GALing. You have to do it. I have to do it. I keep putting it off because it is easier not to do it. You can't allow yourself to do the same. The bike ride was a good, good thing for you and I hope you keep doing these and other activities to keep you busy. The trick is for none of us to spend too much time being alone and inactive as we start to depress and concentrate on the painful side of things.
So, I'll chime in w/ Jeff here... How can we, on our various ends of the world, help to keep you motivated to continue working on you? Let us know if we need to badger the Hell out of you daily to get going and keep going and I'm sure all of us will be happy to swing our 2X4s at you.
RTL
Hi Ali and RTL,
Sorry to hear you're not feeling too great right now, Ali. Hang in there, there's some good perspective being put forth on things. I've been having a tough day today. Went to a restaurant with some people from work that was a place my W. and I often went to. I was really triggered and have been feeling quite down. Lots of these ups and downs, right?
Thanks RTL for your post to Ali...it helped me a bit to read it too!
Purr
Thanks RTL! If you knew me, you'd know it was a big deal that I voluntarily got up and went cycling on my own on a cold (but sunny!) day and went for so far. I was proud of myself!
And I went to tea at a friends house tonight and hugged their kids and made everyone laugh for 2 hours and then left ! I was exhausted! And I am going out for a drink Thursday with 8 woman (blimey!) and I went to work for 3 hours today (which is a record for me as I normally get bored after 2 hours and leave!) and I'm going in for another 3 or 4 hours tommorow. So, I think I will very slowly get there, drip drip drip?
Lastly..my BF emailed me again when I was out. He basically invited himself around tommorow night! I wasnt entirely sure I wanted him to come, I was a bit thrown by this, a Tuesday night !? I've not seen him on a Tuesday night since he moved out I dont think! He had bought me a bike chain and said he will come round tommorow (with the usual caveat of "maybe" thrown in!) night to fix it. So if he does, I will offer to cook him dinner as a thankyou (good excuse I think).
And I'e been thinking about this since last week. Next time I do see him, my aim is to kiss him on the cheek...near the mouth (NOT the mouth!), but we havent kissed on the face since the night he left me (right after we'd had about the best you know whats of the whole 9 years! Wierd. Oh well, we went out with a bang). So thats my little goal..as we always hug goodbye, so instead of the usual release and step back routine, I shall turn my head and chance a little kiss.. I think. Make it easier to start doing a bit of cheek kissing in future..then hopefully, one day it will be easier to close that gap from a cheek kiss to a peck on the lips..and before you know it, we'll be married and I'll be bun in the oven and we will live happily ever after..
ok, hang on, getting carried away now. :-)
I'm pleased he said he was going to ring that counselling line tonight, so I really really hope he has done that. Find out tommorow. Right, got to go get my beauty zzzz's !
Oh hey Purr... well done for going! Thats brave. I felt that way when I went to "our" beach by myself, not fun, but these things get easier. I'm still largely by myself (I was all weekend) but I'm learning that little things can make a big difference - like ok I was alone for 3 days, but 2 hours with friends wipes out the lonely times in a flash and then tommorow is another day?
Yay! Hope you get to see him tomorrow. He is really reaching out! And dinner sounds like a good thank you.
Sleep well.